whitfield profile 20 problem

[lucaspolucas]

Good day everyone, my pellet stove was working fine until last month, after it goes threw ignition time If I put It at low setting It will run a very high flame and heat, at medium setting I'm getting very low flame and heat and at High setting I'm getting a medium flame, cleaned the stove from one end to the other, behind the fire brick and baffles, the air opening under the grater and the cheminey as well, changed the pressure switch thinking that this was the problem but no I'm still having a problem, now I'm wondering what can it be, low limit switch, fan limit switch, inlet high limit disc or the control board which I hope not, any help on this would very much appreciated, I have a bad back so no way I'm bringing the stove somewhere so I got to figure out how to repair it on my own, thank you.

Lucas

 

[Bioburner]

Welcome Lucas,
Lots of Whit owners here. The switches on the stove, vac, high limit, etc. are all safeties to prevent over firing and fuel feeding issues. The control board is what controls the fan speeds and auger feed timing. The Whifield Company had been sold a couple times in the last couple years
The best person here for board problems is Stovenson from Denmark so may have to be patient for his help because of time differences.

 

[lucaspolucas]

Welcome Lucas,
Lots of Whit owners here. The switches on the stove, vac, high limit, etc. are all safeties to prevent over firing and fuel feeding issues. The control board is what controls the fan speeds and auger feed timing. The Whifield Company had been sold a couple times in the last couple years
The best person here for board problems is Stovenson from Denmark so may have to be patient for his help because of time differences.

Ok thank you.

 

[Stovensen]

Hi Lucas, welcome to the forum. First we need to be sure about the exact model of your stove. You see, you have me confused when you talk about a lowlimit switch... a Whitfield Profile 20 does not have a low limit switch. The proof of fire function in the Profile series is monitored by a photo eye.

Here's picture of a Whitfield Profile 20 and its control board. Is yours similar:

 

[Bioburner]

Remembering when I first got the camp stove I was advised to get rid of the photo eye as it seems it causes all sorts of maladies. Very easy project to replace with a snap switch if the stove is a Profile

 

[Stovensen]

Very easy project to replace with a snap switch if the stove is a Profile

Yes, forum member Don2222 posted a thread on this project some months ago. Don's post is very thorough and detailed with photos covering each step in the job. Link to Don's thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ery-anyone-try-this-see-pics-it-works.132882/

The Profile 20 was the successor to my Quest Plus and it has the same firebox and heat exchanger as the Quest Plus. But the burnpot is improved on the Profile. The Unigrate is optimized on several points compared to the Ultragrate.

The replacement of the low limit switch with the photo eye was not so ideal. In a dust free environment like a propane heater, I believe it would be perfect, but not in a pellet stove. Also the location of the photo eye in the first Profile series made it next to impossible to clean the lens. The manufacturer Lennox was aware of this issue and offered a Photo Eye Relocation Kit for free to the owners of the first series stoves.
On the next generation of Profile stoves this photo eye location issue was fixed and another important improvement was introduced on the Profile 20 FS-2... Ash Clean-Out Ports.
These ash clean-out ports really makes cleaning a lot easier. I wish my Quest Plus had them.

Picture of Ash Clean-Out Ports in a Profile 20 FS-2:



Bioburner, is your Profile 20 of the second generation with these ash clean-out ports?
And a question to the OP Lucas, you say that you, quote: "cleaned the stove from one end to the other, behind the fire brick and baffles". When you say "baffles", does this mean that your stove has the ash clean-out ports?

 

[lucaspolucas]

Hi Lucas, welcome to the forum. First we need to be sure about the exact model of your stove. You see, you have me confused when you talk about a lowlimit switch... a Whitfield Profile 20 does not have a low limit switch. The proof of fire function in the Profile series is monitored by a photo eye.

Here's picture of a Whitfield Profile 20 and its control board. Is yours similar:

View attachment 154492

Yes this is the exact stove and I do have a photoeye and It was also cleaned up. All that 's written inside the cover is Profile 20 , no letters there, the stove is about 4 to 5 years old, bought It from a friend last year. I probably don't have the right instruction book cause my friend that sold It to me couldn't find It so I assume It was 20 fs model, i do not have the clean out ports, like I said It's the exact model that you posted as well as the control board, thank you.

 

[Bioburner]

I have the ash cleanout ports that are blocked by the firebrick. Not much concern as the stove is a camp heater and just take the air compressor and blast everything out. Stove is a great addition to camp tent to help with cool mornings and wet rainy days and propain is crazy high and still need a fan to get heat to circulate anyway. Use equine bedding pellets from local feed store.

 

[Bioburner]

I would get rid of the eye or at least get the snap switch and install it in the exhaust fan housing and extend the yellow wires to the new switch and by pass the eye completely. Lennox completely got rid of the problematic eye and went back to the cheaper and more reliable snap switch. I used a 110 degree switch as we are using outside(temps in the 40's) and using a higher heat switch would fault out as the stove would not get to temp fast enough. I believe the normal switch is 120 or130 for normal room temps.
I

 

[Stovensen]

, i do not have the clean out ports,

Oh, so you have a Profile 20 of the first generation, but since you've been able to get to the photo eye lens for cleaning, it probably was upgraded with the Photo Eye Relocation Kit by the previous owner, or more likely the dealer who sold the stove. Lennox offered $50 payment to the installer/dealer to make this upgrade for the customers.

Lucas, now I'm convinced that your stove will soon be running like a brand new stove. However, a deep clean is needed to get there. From your description of the symptoms in your first post everything points in the direction of a badly clogged up exhaust.
Forum member Bob P. made a very detailed and useful cleaning instruction in this thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/whitfield-wp4-quest.124036/
Bob P. has a Quest stove, but remember: A Quest has the same firebox and heat exchanger as a Profile 20 without the ash clean-out ports, so please read Bob P.'s instructions carefully.

One thing that could lead to unstable pellet feed is a worn out Nylatron bushing at the auger shaft lower end, so please check for excessive clearance here by grasping the auger motor firmly ( STOVE UNPLUGGED! ) and wiggle it to look for any clearance.

Oh, and you say that you have no proper owners manual. Here's a link to the original manual for both Profile 20 and Profile 30 of the second generation.
Especially the troubleshooting chart and the wiring diagram will be useful for you.
(broken link removed to http://www.whitfield.com/resources/manual/Lennox_Hearth_Profile_Installation_Operation_775023M.pdf)

Good luck and take care. Please keep us posted on your progress.
Cheers
Bo

 

[lucaspolucas]

Oh, so you have a Profile 20 of the first generation, but since you've been able to get to the photo eye lens for cleaning, it probably was upgraded with the Photo Eye Relocation Kit by the previous owner, or more likely the dealer who sold the stove. Lennox offered $50 payment to the installer/dealer to make this upgrade for the customers.

Lucas, now I'm convinced that your stove will soon be running like a brand new stove. However, a deep clean is needed to get there. From your description of the symptoms in your first post everything points in the direction of a badly clogged up exhaust.
Forum member Bob P. made a very detailed and useful cleaning instruction in this thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/whitfield-wp4-quest.124036/
Bob P.'s has a Quest stove, but remember: A Quest has the same firebox and heat exchanger as a Profile 20 without the ash clean-out ports, so please read Bob P.'s instructions carefully.

One thing that could lead to unstable pellet feed is a worn out Nylatron bushing at the auger shaft lower end, so please check for excessive clearance here by grasping the auger motor firmly ( STOVE UNPLUGGED! ) and wiggle it to look for any clearance.

Oh, and you say that you have no proper owners manual. Here's a link to the original manual for both Profile 20 and Profile 30 of the second generation.
Especially the troubleshooting chart and the wiring diagram will be useful for you.
(broken link removed to http://www.whitfield.com/resources/manual/Lennox_Hearth_Profile_Installation_Operation_775023M.pdf)

Good luck and take care. Please keep us posted on your progress.
Cheers
Bo

Ok thank you Bo, the only area I didn't clean is taking the blower or fan out, I'll re-check the photo eye as well, cheers.

 

[Stovensen]

the only area I didn't clean is taking the blower or fan out,

Then be prepared for a lot of dusty ash in there. This is going to be a bit messy. I always use a good quality dust mask when deep cleaning. Please be sure to buy and wear this before commencing the deep clean.

I'll re-check the photo eye as well

A dirt covered photo eye will make the stove shut down after 30 minutes at start up. And the burning pellets in the pot will probably leak some smoke out in the room through the air wash for a couple of minutes until they have burned out.
Through the years many threads on this forum have been posted about this "Dirty photo eye issue" and people being scared of their stalled Profile stove leaking smoke through the air wash.
Since you don't have these symptoms ( yet ), I would focus on the deep clean for now. But remember to wear a good quality dust mask.

 

[lucaspolucas]

Then be prepared for a lot of dusty ash in there. This is going to be a bit messy. I always use a good quality dust mask when deep cleaning. Please be sure to buy and wear this before commencing the deep clean.



A dirt covered photo eye will make the stove shut down after 30 minutes at start up. And the burning pellets in the pot will probably leak some smoke out in the room through the air wash for a couple of minutes until they have burned out.
Through the years many threads on this forum have been posted about this "Dirty photo eye issue" and people being scared of their stalled Profile stove leaking smoke through the air wash.
Since you don't have these symptoms ( yet ), I would focus on the deep clean for now. But remember to wear a good quality dust mask.

Yes, the mask, the last time I blew my nose after cleaning It wasn't pretty lol.

 

[lucaspolucas]

Then be prepared for a lot of dusty ash in there. This is going to be a bit messy. I always use a good quality dust mask when deep cleaning. Please be sure to buy and wear this before commencing the deep clean.



A dirt covered photo eye will make the stove shut down after 30 minutes at start up. And the burning pellets in the pot will probably leak some smoke out in the room through the air wash for a couple of minutes until they have burned out.
Through the years many threads on this forum have been posted about this "Dirty photo eye issue" and people being scared of their stalled Profile stove leaking smoke through the air wash.
Since you don't have these symptoms ( yet ), I would focus on the deep clean for now. But remember to wear a good quality dust mask.

Well I did the ultimate cleaning here and removed the room air blower, It was very di rty, cleaned the housing as well and bringed the stove outside and blew compressor air every where to finish by cleaning the photo eye, I also checked the exaust blower but it seemed ok with very little soot in there, blew everywhere where on the inside as well where the openings are left and right on each side of the baffle, Bo I did check if there was any loose in the Auger, If you meant by grabbing the auger motor yes there was 1/8 '' loose because I couldn't grab the auger itself, now I'm just not sure what to try anymore because I'm having the same problems, starts well at high, after the ignition time It falls to a medium burn and flame, at low It's very high burn and flame and at medium it's very low and even stops on occasions, any suggestions would be appreciated, thank you very much for your help.

 

[Stovensen]

Well I did the ultimate cleaning here and removed the room air blower, It was very di rty, cleaned the housing as well and bringed the stove outside and blew compressor air every where to finish by cleaning the photo eye, I also checked the exaust blower but it seemed ok with very little soot in there, blew everywhere where on the inside as well where the openings are left and right on each side of the baffle,.

Now we know for sure that the stove is not clogged up in the exhaust and your room blower sure needed some cleaning.

I did check if there was any loose in the Auger, If you meant by grabbing the auger motor yes there was 1/8 '' loose.

1/8'' is about 3 mm... that's way too much clearance. When I started using my Quest Plus in 2008, the Nylatron bushing at the lower end of the auger was just as bad. Besides an irregular pellet feed a clear indication of a badly worn auger bushing is this: A lot of fines will drop out on the bottom of the stove through the worn out bushing. On my picture here from 2008, you can see all the sawdust that leaked from the old bushing. Some of the fines also got sucked in by the room blower, but some of it was stuck in the cavity under the blower mounting flange.
Lucas, did you notice if any sawdust had leaked from the auger bushing, when you did the deep clean?



A new Nylatron bushing is about $ 20. Here's a link: (broken link removed to http://woodheatstoves.com/auger-bearing-nylatron-bushing-12021101-p-16917.html?cPath=499_502)

Finally, it could be the auger timing that is wrong due to a faulty control board. This is not very likely, though; but you can easily monitor the auger timing yourself with the stop watch/timer on your cell phone. On page 20 in the manual there is a chart for the auger timing aka "Fuel Delivery Rate".

Good luck and keep us posted
Bo

 

[lucaspolucas]

Now we know for sure that the stove is not clogged up in the exhaust and your room blower sure needed some cleaning.



1/8'' is about 3 mm... that's way too much clearance. When I started using my Quest Plus in 2008, the Nylatron bushing at the lower end of the auger was just as bad. Besides an irregular pellet feed a clear indication of a badly worn auger bushing is this: A lot of fines will drop out on the bottom of the stove through the worn out bushing. On my picture here from 2008, you can see all the sawdust that leaked from the old bushing. Some of the fines also got sucked in by the room blower, but some of it was stuck in the cavity under the blower mounting flange.
Lucas, did you notice if any sawdust had leaked from the auger bushing, when you did the deep clean?

View attachment 155627

A new Nylatron bushing is about $ 20. Here's a link: (broken link removed to http://woodheatstoves.com/auger-bearing-nylatron-bushing-12021101-p-16917.html?cPath=499_502)

Finally, it could be the auger timing that is wrong due to a faulty control board. This is not very likely, though; but you can easily monitor the auger timing yourself with the stop watch/timer on your cell phone. On page 20 in the manual there is a chart for the auger timing aka "Fuel Delivery Rate".

Good luck and keep us posted
Bo

I'm not sure about the auger being loose cause I don't know where to grab It, I was grabbing It from under the auger motor, this may not be the right way, however there was no sawdust at all underneath It so I'm skeptical at that level, for 20$ I would be ready to try that anyways though, can a board be repaired?

 

[Stovensen]

Here's a useful videoclip from WoodHeatStoves about how examine all the involved parts on the auger system. Note: The stove in the clip is an older Whitfield with an oil-lite bronze bushing. Your Profile 20 has a Nylatron bushing from factory, but apart from that all information is relevant to your stove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BKwSYJnMFLw

If your control board turns out to be faulty ( wrong auger timing ) I can recommend David in Ontario for repair. Ontario is close to you, isn't it?

Here's a video David made of his repair of a Profile 30 control board:

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According to David's ad. here the repair is $128 including return shipping: (broken link removed to http://www.kijiji.ca/v-heater-humidifier-dehumidifier/peterborough/whitfield-advantage-ii-t-iii-plus-control-board-repair-service/265783976)

 

[lucaspolucas]

Here's a useful videoclip from WoodHeatStoves about how examine all the involved parts on the auger system. Note: The stove in the clip is an older Whitfield with an oil-lite bronze bushing. Your Profile 20 has a Nylatron bushing from factory, but apart from that all information is relevant to your stove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BKwSYJnMFLw

If your control board turns out to be faulty ( wrong auger timing ) I can recommend David in Ontario for repair. Ontario is close to you, isn't it?

Here's a video David made of his repair of a Profile 30 control board:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

According to David's ad. here the repair is $128 including return shipping: (broken link removed to http://www.kijiji.ca/v-heater-humidifier-dehumidifier/peterborough/whitfield-advantage-ii-t-iii-plus-control-board-repair-service/265783976)

Thanks Bo for those video's, I'm waiting for a reply for the bushing If they deliver in Canada, I'll try this first and as last resort then I'll contact that board repair guy and send him the board If this doesn't work out, thank you.

 

[lucaspolucas]

Thanks Bo for those video's, I'm waiting for a reply for the bushing If they deliver in Canada, I'll try this first and as last resort then I'll contact that board repair guy and send him the board If this doesn't work out, thank you.

I got the parts In, I also bought a new auger motor with the bushing, new gasket as well, I'll make the repair this week-end and let you guy's know what came of this, cheers.

Lucas

 

[Stovensen]

I got the parts In, I also bought a new auger motor with the bushing, new gasket as well, I'll make the repair this week-end and let you guy's know what came of this, cheers.

Lucas

Looking forward to hear about the operation. Best of luck from here

Until then I can "entertain" you by describing the issues I faced back in 2008, when my stove needed the same repair as yours:

When I was about to replace the auger motor and bushing on my Quest Plus, it was impossible to separate the motor from the auger shaft even with the set screw removed. The explanation turned out to be this: The previous owner had not been aware of correct alignment ( in relation to the flat side of the auger motor output shaft ) when tightening the set screw. This resulted in the formation of deep grooves on both the auger motor shaft and inside the auger. These grooves made the parts inseparable...

Picture of my old auger motor with deep grooves on the output shaft caused by a misaligned set screw. You can also see the marks on the housing made by the previous owner, when he tried to separate the parts with a crow bar ( without success )


It took me some time to figure out a safe method to separate the motor from the auger, but the inspiration came from the valve grinding job I had made recently on my car: I took some valve grinding paste and made it thinner with some engine oil, so the grinding paste, by the help of gravity, could float to the blocking grooves. With the auger motor fixed in a vice and the auger shaft pointing downwards, I started wiggling the shaft to grind the grooves away. It took about an hour of wiggling until I could separate the motor from the auger.

Lucas, first of all I hope you'll be able to pull the auger motor without any problems, and when you finally are ready to assemble the motor with the auger shaft, be VERY careful to have the set screw properly aligned with the flat section on the motor shaft!

Good luck and take care.
Bo

 

[lucaspolucas]

Looking forward to hear about the operation. Best of luck from here

Until then I can "entertain" you by describing the issues I faced back in 2008, when my stove needed the same repair as yours:

When I was about to replace the auger motor and bushing on my Quest Plus, it was impossible to separate the motor from the auger shaft even with the set screw removed. The explanation turned out to be this: The previous owner had not been aware of correct alignment ( in relation to the flat side of the auger motor output shaft ) when tightening the set screw. This resulted in the formation of deep grooves on both the auger motor shaft and inside the auger. These grooves made the parts inseparable...

Picture of my old auger motor with deep grooves on the output shaft caused by a misaligned set screw. You can also see the marks on the housing made by the previous owner, when he tried to separate the parts with a crow bar ( without success )
View attachment 156050

It took me some time to figure out a safe method to separate the motor from the auger, but the inspiration came from the valve grinding job I had made recently on my car: I took some valve grinding paste and made it thinner with some engine oil, so the grinding paste, by the help of gravity, could float to the blocking grooves. With the auger motor fixed in a vice and the auger shaft pointing downwards, I started wiggling the shaft to grind the grooves away. It took about an hour of wiggling until I could separate the motor from the auger.

Lucas, first of all I hope you'll be able to pull the auger motor without any problems, and when you finally are ready to assemble the motor with the auger shaft, be VERY careful to have the set screw properly aligned with the flat section on the motor shaft!

Good luck and take care.
Bo

So the repairs were done, no problems at all, took me about 30 minutes to change the bushing, motor and gasket, I also changed the door cord, and guess what, I still have the same problem so I guess the only alternative left is to have the board inspected and reset it properly, there's no reset button on these boards? I feel like I spent too much money but once I get this fixed I should have a new stove lol.

Lucas

 

[lucaspolucas]

So the repairs were done, no problems at all, took me about 30 minutes to change the bushing, motor and gasket, I also changed the door cord, and guess what, I still have the same problem so I guess the only alternative left is to have the board inspected and reset it properly, there's no reset button on these boards? I feel like I spent too much money but once I get this fixed I should have a new stove lol.

Lucas

I just saw this somewhere else, can you calibrate the profile 20 as It's said underneath? Apparently a small door at the bottom of the controller and there's a calibration button there.

'' yep that's the panel. when you open it you see a button that says calibrate, push it once and the red heat will stay lit. from there you press the heat and the blower to move trim up or down. when you hit the cal button again it will go to a combustion fan trim higher or lower. then hit cal. one more time and it will save.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/whitfield-profile-20-fuel-feed-trim.47814/

Luc

 

[Lake Girl]

Keep us posted on how you make out with the calibration...

 

[lucaspolucas]

Keep us posted on how you make out with the calibration...

I tried to do It like It was explained in my last post but It's not doing the fan change sound like described after the light goes on when i hit the calibration button I pressed cal again and nothing, I understand that this person doesn't have the same stove as I but I thought I would at least try, if you look close at this picture there's 4 holes on the right, they seem to be a female insert so possibly made for a calibration sensor of some sort, sorry for the bad pic but I took this fast at 6 am this morning, as anyone heard or know anything about calibration of these units, can you direct me , I've tried reaching that guy David in Ontario, He doesn't respond to my e-mails so I'm not sure he's still doing these board repairs, any insight would be appreciated.

Lucas

 

[lucaspolucas]

I tried to do It like It was explained in my last post but It's not doing the fan change sound like described after the light goes on when i hit the calibration button I pressed cal again and nothing, I understand that this person doesn't have the same stove as I but I thought I would at least try, if you look close at this picture there's 4 holes on the right, they seem to be a female insert so possibly made for a calibration sensor of some sort, sorry for the bad pic but I took this fast at 6 am this morning, as anyone heard or know anything about calibration of these units, can you direct me , I've tried reaching that guy David in Ontario, He doesn't respond to my e-mails so I'm not sure he's still doing these board repairs, any insight would be appreciated.

Lucas

I also tried to get more answers from this tread but I can't access to It, can a moderator try to reach this person please to jump in my tread, thank you.


https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/whitfield-profile-20-fuel-feed-trim.47814/