Whitfield won't keep running

[Bioburner]

What model of Whit. There is lot of us owners of them here on this site with some great electrical knowledge of them. Bo, from Denmark

 

[Hobokenkitchen]

What model of Whit. There is lot of us owners of them here on this site with some great electrical knowledge of them. Bo, from Denmark

I posted about it and people here were as flummoxed as the techs. It sucks because it heats beautifully. I just have to get up every 10 minutes to restart it.

 

[Bioburner]

I was one of them as I found the posting. Still think the stupid proof of fire eye is the problem. Without the circuit being made the stove thinks no fire so it starts the shut down sequence. Yellow wires go to it.Can you get to them and disconnectect the wires to the eye and join them together to test? The stove should stay running then.

 

[Hobokenkitchen]

I was one of them as I found the posting. Still think the stupid proof of fire eye is the problem. Without the circuit being made the stove thinks no fire so it starts the shut down sequence. Yellow wires go to it.Can you get to them and disconnectect the wires to the eye and join them together to test? The stove should stay running then.

We could try! I'm just worried we'll do something that will prevent it working again at all. Lol. ; )

 

[Stovensen]

I just have to get up every 10 minutes to restart it.

A very precise way to prove that it is a dirty photo eye that is making your Whitfield shut down, is to measure the exact time from you push the start button till the stove shuts down.
Now, you say 10 minutes in the quote above, but isn't this just an estimation? The start up delay in the control board allowing the stove to warm up and get a stable fire is exactly: 14 minutes and 15 seconds. If you have a cell phone with a timer/stop watch ( I'm sure you have ), the timing test should be easy to make.
Those 14 minutes and 15 seconds could be considered a reliable fault code, so if you hit this exact time, we know for sure that your photo eye needs cleaning, adjustment or replacement.

Looking forward to hear your result. Good luck and take care.
Bo

 

[Hobokenkitchen]

A very precise way to prove that it is a dirty photo eye that is making your Whitfield shut down, is to measure the exact time from you push the start button till the stove shuts down.
Now, you say 10 minutes in the quote above, but isn't this just an estimation? The start up delay in the control board allowing the stove to warm up and get a stable fire is exactly: 14 minutes and 15 seconds. If you have a cell phone with a timer/stop watch ( I'm sure you have ), the timing test should be easy to make.
Those 14 minutes and 15 seconds could be considered a reliable fault code, so if you hit this exact time, we know for sure that your photo eye needs cleaning, adjustment or replacement.

Looking forward to hear your result. Good luck and take care.
Bo

Am I measuring until it stops dropping pellets, the last flame goes out, or until it faults?
Thanks!!

 

[Bioburner]

Should till it faults.

 

[Hobokenkitchen]

Should till it faults.

First run through:

Flame at 3 minutes 50 seconds.

Flame dies at 11 minutes 40 seconds.

Faults at 14 minutes 25 seconds.

-----------------------------

Second run through.

Flame at 2 minutes 50 seconds (complete with big puff of smoke).

Second feed of pellets at 5 minutes 10 seconds. Pellets stop dropping at 7 minutes 40 seconds.

Flame dies out at 9 minutes.

Faults at 14 minutes 25 seconds.

--------------------------------

Third run through:

Flame at 1 minutes 50 seconds.

Second pellet feed at 5 minutes 15 seconds. Pellets stop dropping at 7 minutes 45 seconds.

Flame dies just before 9 minutes.

Faults at 14 minutes 25 seconds.

-------------------------------

We don't ususally wait until it faults to restart it. We usually wait until the flame dies down around 10 minutes in and then we turn it off and on again.

 

[Hobokenkitchen]

A very precise way to prove that it is a dirty photo eye that is making your Whitfield shut down, is to measure the exact time from you push the start button till the stove shuts down.
Now, you say 10 minutes in the quote above, but isn't this just an estimation? The start up delay in the control board allowing the stove to warm up and get a stable fire is exactly: 14 minutes and 15 seconds. If you have a cell phone with a timer/stop watch ( I'm sure you have ), the timing test should be easy to make.
Those 14 minutes and 15 seconds could be considered a reliable fault code, so if you hit this exact time, we know for sure that your photo eye needs cleaning, adjustment or replacement.

Looking forward to hear your result. Good luck and take care.
Bo

Bo you were almost spot on with the timing! 14 minutes and 25 seconds. Is that close enough?

I ran it through 3 times and it was the same each time.

What do we do now?

 

[Bioburner]

If the eye does not complete the circuit the board thinks no fire. Your board is good I think but the eye is either dirty or pooped out.

 

[Bioburner]

You can try what i recommended with joining the yellow wires from the board but it will probably mess with the starting cycle thinking its started unless you extend the wires outside of the stove and after startup using a switch close the circuit. Simple light switch will work.

 

[Stovensen]

14 minutes and 25 seconds. Is that close enough?

Considering the tolerance of the involved electronic components on the circuit board, we may definitely conclude that the photo eye is the culprit.

What do we do now?

Bioburner's suggestion to insert a manual/external bypass switch will give you a stable heat source, and from what I read about the tough winter temperatures you have over there, this will be strongly needed.
Hobokenkitchen, do you have the original Whitfield Profile 20/30 manual? If not, it can be downloaded here: (broken link removed to http://www.whitfield.com/resources/manual/Lennox_Hearth_Profile_Installation_Operation_775023M.pdf)

On page 26 and 27 you'll find useful information on how to inspect and clean the photo eye.

On page 19 there's a picture of the rear side of the control board and here you can see where to find the plug for the photo eye. Simply unplug the cable to the photo eye and connect the external bypass switch to the terminals on the plug hanging out from the control board. A couple of jaw test clips will be needed to secure the cable from external bypass switch to the terminals on the plug.
If you don't feel safe fiddling with cables and such, please let a more experienced person do this.


Note: The manual in above link is for the Profile series of the second generation.. the Profile 20-2. Now, you could have a Profile 20 of the first generation. If so, I sincerely hope that this has been retro fitted with the Photo Eye Relocation Kit. If not, it will be very difficult to get to the photo eye for cleaning!!
As you can read from this text found on the internet, the Quad Mt. Vernon E2 is not the only pellet stove to have had issues resulting in "grey hairs" on the manufacturer. Back in the days, Whitfield/Lennox offered the dealers/installers £50 payment to install the Relocation Kit for free for the customers:



Good luck and take care. I'm sure you soon will have both stoves running perfectly again. Keep us posted on your progress.
Bo

 

[Bioburner]

It will probably be easier for us to get to the bottom to the Whit than the Quad

 

[begreen]

It will probably be easier for us to get to the bottom to the Whit than the Quad

Hobokenkitchen, I've moved the Whitfield segment to a new thread. It will be much easier for Whitfield owners to find in the future if they are having similar issues.

 

[Hobokenkitchen]

It does not have the kit that was provided to owners and I just don't know that we are able to work out how to fix it.

My husband is slammed at work but I'll ask him to look at it at the weekend.

Thanks so much for the help! : )

 

[Bioburner]

When things warm a bit end of week I'll get to the stove and shoot a couple pictures of the wires and where to mount the proof of fire snap switch.

 

[Stovensen]

When things warm a bit end of week I'll get to the stove and shoot a couple pictures of the wires and where to mount the proof of fire snap switch.

Some months ago Don2222 made a very thorough and detailed thread on how to make this permanent bypass of the photo eye. His thread can be found here with pictures and all:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ery-anyone-try-this-see-pics-it-works.132882/

 

[Bioburner]

Some months ago Don2222 made a very thorough and detailed thread on how to make this permanent bypass of the photo eye. His thread can be found here with pictures and all:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ery-anyone-try-this-see-pics-it-works.132882/

Thank you for digging that up. Saves me a trip in the cold out to the shed. -6F

 

[Don2222]

Some months ago Don2222 made a very thorough and detailed thread on how to make this permanent bypass of the photo eye. His thread can be found here with pictures and all:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ery-anyone-try-this-see-pics-it-works.132882/

Thanks Stovensen
I just bypassed my 4th stove now and they all work flawlessly.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ery-anyone-try-this-see-pics-it-works.132882/

The fact that there is a hole in the exhaust for the thermo disc for the eye bypass still in the stove, tells me they let people go back the the better solution to save trouble for them!

 

[Bioburner]

The fact that there is a hole in the exhaust for the thermo disc for the eye bypass still in the stove

Or the warehouse was full of the blower assemblies and used them till they are gone. Happens all the time.

 

[stmar]

I recall, 15+ years ago, Whitfield did send a new/alternative fire/photo eye procedure. I guess you could do an Internet search and see if you can find one. My recollection is that it was a straight forward project; had to drill one hole, relocate the wiring, re-caulk the metal shroud in the pellet bin (I remember this because I had to get the high temp red caulk and I see it when I load the bin). I don't remember if they sent a new eye or if I used the original one and just relocated it.

 

[Bioburner]

When I did the project just left the eye and put the $12 snap disc in the mounting hole on the blower and needed to extend the wires. 15 minutes tops.

 

[Don2222]

Or the warehouse was full of the blower assemblies and used them till they are gone. Happens all the time.

Yes, and some stoves still have the F140 Ceramic snap disc in them with no wires and some stoves have the cover over the hole!
I ran a wire to the existing snap disc for 2 of my bypass operations and they worked like new since they were never used!

 

[Don2222]

I recall, 15+ years ago, Whitfield did send a new/alternative fire/photo eye procedure. I guess you could do an Internet search and see if you can find one. My recollection is that it was a straight forward project; had to drill one hole, relocate the wiring, re-caulk the metal shroud in the pellet bin (I remember this because I had to get the high temp red caulk and I see it when I load the bin). I don't remember if they sent a new eye or if I used the original one and just relocated it.

There was a photo eye relocation but they are just not worth the trouble! Just use the snap disc!