Whitfield WP2 Feed Issue

[lukeduke95]

Oddly enough, I thought I could find the answer fairly easily with all of the great FAQ's on here... but it hasn't been the case. I have learned quite a bit about the stove though! I have narrowed it down to what I think may be the issue.... but I'll lay out the testing first.

Issue- Auger (even on high) spins super super slow. I marked it with a pen, and it takes about 2min for it to turn just 1/8 of a turn. (If that)

The pressure switch has continuity.
The high limit switch has continuity.
The low limit switch does not have continuity. (Stove wasn't being used, so this makes sense)

The motor when connected directly to AC runs super fast.
The gear box is fine, the auger mount spins fine.

The motor when connected to the blower power works fine and feeds pellets no problem. It just feeds them too fast on high!!

The potentiometers both register variable values when connected to one side and the middle tab. (The other tab and middle do not register values on either pot)

The auger light does flash like it is working right, although it is a quick flash even on high. (Maybe normal)

I used the wiring diagram on page 12 to verify all my connections.
http://www.hearthtools.com/parts/whitfield_wire_diagrams.pdf

So, after checking all that above and everything functioning the only thing I have left is the amount of voltage being applied. When the motor does get voltage, the meter doesn't get up to 120v. And it only gets it for a quick mili-second.

My thought is the auger power timer (pulser or whatever it is called) is going bad a quickly shuts off the power. Anyone ever had this issue?

Thank you very much, this forum has a wealth of information!

 

[rap69ri]

What's the serial number fo the stove? Is the control board digital or analog?

 

[lukeduke95]

The serial is in the 16000's.
Built in 1988 from a date on one label.
It has the rotary control board, and like I mentioned before both potentiometers register varied values as I turn them.

 

[rap69ri]

I think your assessment is correct, sounds like the control board is the issue. Looks like your options are to either replace the control board, or if you're daring connect a rheostat to the auger for manual control of feed rate.

 

[lukeduke95]

Has anyone ever fixed one of these themselves?

My dad does a lot of electronics diagnosing, maybe I'll ask him to take a look At it.

It has to be one of the parts on the control board, just which one controls the auger on timer, or is the part that does that.

 

[Mr Whitfield]

If the board has IC chip, good luck these chips are pre-programmed and can't be replaced. Whitfield had these boards made for them, I think the company was in New York, Buffalo.

 

[jtakeman]

Do you have the info on the chips?

I tinker with computers and have a programmer to deal with the bios chips. I may be able to get a read and clone the chips if you think its worth it for you. I ask for no payment, just handle the return shipping costs. Of coarse you need to locate the replacement chip as well.

There if you guys need it.
jay

 

[lukeduke95]

Jay-

This forum did a bunch of research on the parts on the board. They cover a couple different stoves, but I think the final page goes back to the Advantage 2.

http://forum.servomagazine.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=212&start=45

Apparently the IC's are no longer made and were a custom job for Whitfield. I don't know much about IC's so maybe there is something out there now that will do the job.

Hmmm... putting a rheostat in its place. I wonder if this presents any safety issues. I'm blanking now, but is the combustion fan or anything else controlled by the feed speed pot? Or does the feed dial just control how fast the auger turns. I guess I'd still need to find a rheo that would power the motor at similar speeds so I could mark up my own feed rates for reference...

 

[jtakeman]

Jay-

This forum did a bunch of research on the parts on the board. They cover a couple different stoves, but I think the final page goes back to the Advantage 2.

http://forum.servomagazine.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=212&start=45

Apparently the IC's are no longer made and were a custom job for Whitfield. I don't know much about IC's so maybe there is something out there now that will do the job.

Hmmm... putting a rheostat in its place. I wonder if this presents any safety issues. I'm blanking now, but is the combustion fan or anything else controlled by the feed speed pot? Or does the feed dial just control how fast the auger turns. I guess I'd still need to find a rheo that would power the motor at similar speeds so I could mark up my own feed rates for reference...

Ah' I see now. From what Mr. Whitfield said. I thought it was more like a logic chip. Can't help with that one.

Any way. Back in my tinkering days. I was going to try to control the auger on my old quad. It ran all the time and pellet feed was controlled by a gate in the hopper. It wasn't very smooth and required suttle movements. Any way I was going to use a timer circuit to control the auger speed. You would just splice it in and it would allow percise adjustment of the motor. If your interested I can dig up my notes. Very easy to make and install. It would work as long as the rest of your components are in working order. Remove 1 wire from the motor and slave in the timer or from the on switch on the board. This way you could still use the other controls on the board.

Just FYI.
jay

 

[hearthtools]

Oddly enough, I thought I could find the answer fairly easily with all of the great FAQ's on here... but it hasn't been the case. I have learned quite a bit about the stove though! I have narrowed it down to what I think may be the issue.... but I'll lay out the testing first.

Issue- Auger (even on high) spins super super slow. I marked it with a pen, and it takes about 2min for it to turn just 1/8 of a turn. (If that)

The pressure switch has continuity.
The high limit switch has continuity.
The low limit switch does not have continuity. (Stove wasn't being used, so this makes sense)

The motor when connected directly to AC runs super fast.
The gear box is fine, the auger mount spins fine.

The motor when connected to the blower power works fine and feeds pellets no problem. It just feeds them too fast on high!!

The potentiometers both register variable values when connected to one side and the middle tab. (The other tab and middle do not register values on either pot)

The auger light does flash like it is working right, although it is a quick flash even on high. (Maybe normal)

I used the wiring diagram on page 12 to verify all my connections.
http://www.hearthtools.com/parts/whitfield_wire_diagrams.pdf

So, after checking all that above and everything functioning the only thing I have left is the amount of voltage being applied. When the motor does get voltage, the meter doesn't get up to 120v. And it only gets it for a quick mili-second.

My thought is the auger power timer (pulser or whatever it is called) is going bad a quickly shuts off the power. Anyone ever had this issue?

Thank you very much, this forum has a wealth of information!

you guys are on the right track you are haveing a power problems ither with the auger ON timer or the Potentionmeter

but I wanted to point out that if the motor is getting 100-120 volts it will always spin at one speed. it is not a variable speed motor.

the feed rate is changed with the auger OFF times with the resistance of the Potentionmeter.
Just wanted to clear that up.

 

[hearthtools]

if you have the original Whitfield it did not have a CONTROL board
it has a start up timer. and auger timer and a Potentiometer. A lot like the not cercuit board Enviro and Lopi/avalon stoves
see page 14 and 15 here

http://www.hearthtools.com/parts/whitfield_wire_diagrams.pdf

 

[lukeduke95]

Hi Rod,

Thanks for chiming in.

The control board looks just like this one-
(broken link removed to http://woodheatstoves.com/advantage-ii-control-panel-rebuild-service-p-4270.html)

The auger motor never gets more than 30v of power when it comes on. It does flash on and off, but never stays on for more than a second. When I hotwire it the motor will spin fine. I think my issue is the unreplaceable IC piece that controls the feed on feed off time.

 

[hearthtools]

Hi Rod,

Thanks for chiming in.

The control board looks just like this one-
(broken link removed to http://woodheatstoves.com/advantage-ii-control-panel-rebuild-service-p-4270.html)

The auger motor never gets more than 30v of power when it comes on. It does flash on and off, but never stays on for more than a second. When I hotwire it the motor will spin fine. I think my issue is the unreplaceable IC piece that controls the feed on feed off time.

does your stove have the current sensing relay? Have you done the removal as show in the wire diagram you have?
if you do not have the relay
Ok then it is a board problem. the auger motor needs line voltage to work.
you might also check to see all the connection are good because there is a few hoops the power has to pass through first the inlet limit and pressure swith

 

[lukeduke95]

No current sensing relay.

I did hot wire the auger to the blower speed connection and it works fine then, so I am assuming the connections on all the switches are good. I even replaced the connector at the board as it was a bit "stressed".... didn't help.

Control Board then?

 

[rap69ri]

Hi Rod,

Thanks for chiming in.

The control board looks just like this one-
(broken link removed to http://woodheatstoves.com/advantage-ii-control-panel-rebuild-service-p-4270.html)

The auger motor never gets more than 30v of power when it comes on. It does flash on and off, but never stays on for more than a second. When I hotwire it the motor will spin fine. I think my issue is the unreplaceable IC piece that controls the feed on feed off time.

You might be surprised with the availability of the IC's. I just ordered an IC for a Quest circuit board that a rocket scientist tried adjusting with a screwdriver while plugged in. I just googled the IC's number and found several sites that sell them for under $1/each.

 

[hearthtools]

No current sensing relay.

I did hot wire the auger to the blower speed connection and it works fine then, so I am assuming the connections on all the switches are good. I even replaced the connector at the board as it was a bit "stressed".... didn't help.

Control Board then?

if you are only getting 30 volts at the auger feed wire coming from the board then YES.
have it rebuilt
I know it will cost more but you are handy
could get a wire harness and a Whitfield control board WP2 / WP7 #12055902 control board and rewire the stove like the newer stoves.
that board controls the combustion blower speed and room are speed much better

 

[lukeduke95]

Would I need a wire harness to go with that new board? Or can I just match the wires and switches to their new sequence from page 3 of the wiring diagram?

 

[hearthtools]

Would I need a wire harness to go with that new board? Or can I just match the wires and switches to their new sequence from page 3 of the wiring diagram?

I dont recall if the plug is the same

 

[rap69ri]

You'd need a harness because the connector on the board is totally different. Here's some sites that sell the board. I've only used WoodHeatStoves personally, but they're pricey.

(broken link removed to http://www.hvacpartsshop.com/12055902--insertcontrolboardtimedelay.aspx)

(broken link removed to http://woodheatstoves.com/whitfield-advantage-iit-and-adv-plus-control-board-p-9430.html)

http://www.mikesstoves.com/Whitfield.0.5.0.1.htm

 

[lukeduke95]

WOW! $125 for the wiring harness! I think I'll try to match up the connector with one from Jameco when I get the board in my hands. Should be here in a few days.

Thank you for all your help gents!

 

[rap69ri]

Good luck with the stove.

Have you checked craigslist for another stove like yours for cheap? It would be nice to have another one to **** parts from.

 

[lukeduke95]

I did check craigslist. Unfortunately being located in the SF Bay Area bring a premium to stuff like this. I got mine for $200, so I'm not too worried about it. This was because of the "issue" it was having. Everything is going between $650-750...

 

[rap69ri]

It was worth a shot.

 

[Mr Whitfield]

It's the same plug, but you need to re-wire it on the terminal block. E-mail me I have the wiring diagram to upgrade old stove with new control board.

 

[hearthtools]

It's the same plug, but you need to re-wire it on the terminal block. E-mail me I have the wiring diagram to upgrade old stove with new control board.

My PDF file with my hand written notes with all the diagrams have been linked on the thread twice already.