will insulation around an insert help

[bambam]

I have a Quadrafire 4100I insert in a zero-clearance fireplace that is located outside my house in a chase that also contains the double walled chimney (12" I.D. 14" O.D.). I used a 6" S.S. liner inside the chimney the entire length (18 feet). My house is around 1850sqft. The original part of home was built around 1860, an addition was put on in 1940's, and another addition in 1997. The fireplace is in the addition built in 1940's which puts it pretty close to center of home. I put insulation and a metal block off plate at the top of chimney which is what the dealership that I bought insert from said I needed to do to keep air from coming down between the 10" and the new 6" liner. My problem is that if I try to burn inser with blower off the stove seems to get really hot but very little heat actually comes out of insert. I checked the temp. of glass with an infered thermometer when blower was on it read 470 degrees and the coal bed read +1000 degrees. With these temps I thought more heat would radiat from stove. I am using a mix of very well dried cherry, oak, maple, and locust. Was wondering if putting ceramic insulation all around insert and at bottom of chimney like a soft block off plate would help force some of the heat from stove into house. I am trying to get the insert to be my main heat source and my furnace as a back up. Still trying to get pictures of insert, fireplace, and chimney but cannot get my camera to get good pictures yet, still trying.

 

[Corey]

My problem is that if I try to burn insert with blower off the stove seems to get really hot but very little heat actually comes out of insert

Unfortunately, that is pretty much the way the inserts work. The added insulation will only help keep more heat in/around the insert (not by much) but it is working against your ultimate goal. The flip side is - if you're trying to heat your whole house, the airflow is actually a good thing as it can spread heat around while radiant heat is only good for line-of-sight heating and convective heat is mainly good for the ceiling and upstairs rooms.

What is the objection to running the blower? It may be possible to get a more quiet set-up or direct the air in a different pattern to help eliminate draft.

 

[bambam]

I was conserned about not using the blower if we had a power outage and could not use the insert to heat.

 

[begreen]

That's a common problem for folks in a rural area. I wouldn't recommend insulation in this case. The issue is that the stove doesn't have much projection into the living space so it can't radiate, except from the front. It's designed to work with a blower. One option would be a battery backup system connected to an inverter/charger for the blower. Another would be a small generator.

 

[Corey]

Yep - double check the wattage of your blowers, but generally even a small/cheap inverter ie 150watt continuous / 300 surge will be plenty to run the insert blowers. I've been through a couple of 3-day power outages with a little inverter and the battery out of my truck - just had to charge the battery each day. Or even a very small generator would run the blowers and a few 'necessities' like refrigerator and TV/computer.

 

[bambam]

That's a common problem for folks in a rural area. I wouldn't recommend insulation in this case. The issue is that the stove doesn't have much projection into the living space so it can't radiate, except from the front. It's designed to work with a blower. One option would be a battery backup system connected to an inverter/charger for the blower. Another would be a small generator.

I did hear about using an inverter or generator before but also heard about insulating too. Why don't you recommend insulation the insert though?

 

[begreen]

I think it was your concern that the stove already gets very hot without the fan running. When the stove has been burning, what temps do you see with the infrared thermometer on the face of the stove just above the corners of the door, but not on the door frame or glass with the blower off for awhile?

 

[bambam]

I will have to get back to you on temp. above corner of door. I borrowed the infrared thermometer from a guy I work with and I won't see him until Friday or Saturday. I will check though.

 

[woodzilla]

i used 1/4 inch kawool to insulate and am quite happy with the results. It is definitly riskier to see an overfire, however if you pay attention to load size in a circumstance w/o power, i dont see much of a drawback. My insert really shows the difference in holding at 250 degrees for @ an extra 1-2 hours easy.

 

[bambam]

It seems that when the fire goes to a really good coal bed not much heat comes out even with the blower running. I only get really good heat when a good set of flames with secondary burn going. When I try to spread the hot coals around it is that hot that I have to do it very quick otherwise I burn my hand, but the air coming from the blower is bearly warm. Another reason I thought insulation wood help.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

You need the blower to heat with an insert. I heated with my insert and ran off an inverter and a cord going to my car for a few days. I really needed to run the car every maybe 6-8 h to keep it charged, or it pooped out on me. poop... huh huh. The inverter alarms and turns power off if you drain to the point that the battery won't start the car.

Heated very well, though- stayed toasty those 4-5 days.

 

[stejus]

I think the OP said he does not have a softplate or blockoff plate. This will help keep the heat in the firebox, thus keeping the entire stove warm. If the insert sticks out onto the hearth, even better. I get plenty of heat from my cast and glass when I'm at 400-500 surface temp. I can't run blower in slow burn mode so I rely on the radiant heat of the cast, glass and brick hearth and some fans moving the air around.

Stuff some insulation in the damper area and you will see a difference.

 

[bambam]

Thank you to all that have replied to by questions. I will try and put insulation at bottom of chimney as a soft block off, at end of season I don't want to start tearing anything apart right now.

 

[Lanningjw]

Thank you to all that have replied to by questions. I will try and put insulation at bottom of chimney as a soft block off, at end of season I don't want to start tearing anything apart right now.

BamBam,

Your gonna be really happy with the results of the insulation around the damper area. I went to the stove shop and bought a 2 ft by 4ft sheet of 2 inch insulation. Get the right stuff so it doesnt melt or cause problems, it cost me $20. The results were amazing, so much more heat in the room rather than up the damper and thru the cracks in the chimney. Yes, I have a plate at the top of the 6 inch liner, but its so much better with the soft block off plate. I evan left the surround off, I think more heat comes out. I have a celing fan that seems to help too.

Keep reading the forum messages, you'll learn lots of great info.

Jim