will it draft?

[mattd81]

Well i am installing my f3cb saterday? and i had a question about the chimney draft? I will be venting the stove into a brick fireplace about 18ft high.
I am a little worried because i need to vent it out the back into a tee and straight up into flex. I hope the stove will draft with the straight pipe going into a tee? I have very very little room for adjustment? The pipe in the back of the stove is very close to the metal header? so i do not know how much pitch i can get? I wonder if i could eliminate the tee and use two 45s?

 

[Corey]

It's a little hard to tell from your description, maybe if you could break it down...like "horizontally out of stove for 2 feet, into the tee, straight up 18 feet" - I'm just not clear what your horizontal run is. As a general rule, two 45's are better than one 90. If your horizontal run is very short, ie <1 foot, the pitch probably doesn't matter too much.

 

[kwburn]

yeah how far the horizontal out the back to the T is going to tell the tale.
i have a similar setup for my recently installed Defiant Encore but my horizontal to the T is only about a foot and it works great (although my chimney is higher).

i have already developed a good routine for getting the draft going. i take a full sheet of newspaper and roll it up length wise which is about 2 feet long. light one end of it and feed the lit end all the way through the back of the stove into the T. while the end burns down i continue feeding it towards the T so the flame stays in that area. by the time it gets down to the last 1/3 of the paper its literally sucked out of my hand by the draft and i can get my fire going with little fuss.

 

[JimWalshin845]

Did you get the standard legs for the stove? There is a shorter leg option that may give you an easier install.

 

[webbie]

Straight out for a short distance should be fine and not affect the draft much. An elbo will draft better than an tee, all other things being equal.

If it turned out you are a little short on draft, you can extend the liner a bit with an extendaflue with stainless inside it...and get 3 extra feet or so.

 

[Todd]

What about just connecting the flex right to the stove exhaust collar?

 

[begreen]

The main thing you'll want to check is the horizontal pitch of the 2 ft. run. It should go up about 1/4" per foot minimum. This could be a problem unless it is screwed tightly together so that it doesn't sag over time. I'd even be tempted to put a support strap under the back elbow.

 

[mattd81]

I think the run out the back of the stove will be about 1ft ? I wanted the shorter legs but the guy at the stove shop advised me against it??? Why does the flex pipe kit come with a tee and not an elbow?? Is It just for cleaning purpose?

 

[JimWalshin845]

I wanted the shorter legs but the guy at the stove shop advised me against it???

Well, as I look at it, he proabably thought he would lose the immediate sale. So you were ready to buy and he had the stove in the warehouse.

I am assuming the stove is in you possession now. Call the retailer, tell him you want the shorter legs for the same price as you paid for the stove and you will give back the original legs.

It appears he has no dealing as per the install, you are doing it, but he does want a happy customer. Even if you have to pay for the shorter legs, wouldn't you feel better as per the ease of installation and removal when you have to clean it (many forget that you do have to move the stove now and then)? Also, the safety factor as a good pitch to the stove pipe? :cheese:

May take a few days via Fed Express... is it worth the wait? :question:

 

[NoSoot]

Is the chimney a inside chimney or is it exposed outside? If it is outside be sure to insulate the liner to keep the flue temp up. Is the stove connected to outside air? If not the homes atmosphere may affect performance. I would stick with a T rather than an elbow so when the debris falls down the stack it can fall past the snout not obstructing the pipe, however the 90 does draw better if kept clean all the time..

Best wishes

 

[mattd81]

The chimney is inside the house except the last 6 ft above the roof.

 

[NoSoot]

Insulating at the min the top 7' of chimney will help the draw and cut down on build-up in the flue. Did you have a draft problem before with the old unit hooked up? The thimble could be moved up the chimney when the liner is installed and switch the sove outlet to verticle.

good luck

 

[JimWalshin845]

Insulating at the min the top 7' of chimney will help the draw and cut down on build-up in the flue. Did you have a draft problem before with the old unit hooked up? The thimble could be moved up the chimney when the liner is installed and switch the sove outlet to verticle.

good luck

Welcome to the forums NoSoot,

Please clue me in and the original poster as per where there was another hookup to the chimney via another stove?

Damn things move too fast, it must be the Viagra!

 

[NoSoot]

I have no idea weather or not there was a previous installation where the original poster wishes to install the new stove however with someone asking out of the blue about a "potential draft problem" or "will it draft" it begs the question Why? Did they have a previous installation that had a problem? I asked a question to get more info. I did get some, but it was about your erectile disfunction. TMI.

 

[JimWalshin845]

I have no idea weather or not there was a previous installation where the original poster wishes to install the new stove however with someone asking out of the blue about a "potential draft problem" or "will it draft" it begs the question Why? Did they have a previous installation that had a problem? I asked a question to get more info. I did get some, but it was about your erectile disfunction. TMI.

Again, welcome to the forum NoSoot,

OK,

Then you missed the point that he is installing the stove into an existing brick FIREPLACE! I wondered (scratching my head) why you would come up with the idea of moving the thimble higher? The poster stated that the stove is very close to the lintel (metal header) of the BRICK FIREPLACE. I have never seen anyone try to insulate the top 7' of a masonry chimney as you suggest? I truly believe he is concerned about the pitch of the horizontal pipe leading from the back of his new install.

He does mention that there is a flex lining someplace but not clear if it is partially into the flue or right to the top of his existing masonry chimney. The size of the flue will definitely make a difference as per the draft.

And leave my ED alone, :lol:
Jim

 

[NoSoot]

OK, ed out of the picture. The flex lining that extends from: I would guess the firebox area of the fireplace to who knows would typically suggest that an appliance( maybe insert) was installeed prior to the potential new stove. If there is a liner present in the chimney as was stated I would reccomend insulating at least the run from the roofline up at the min. That was my point. Should I be taking everything literally or try to look between the lines? Is it really a brick fireplace or is it a z-can with brick face? Is the flex liner stainless or aluminum? etc.

Just trying to help

Rick

 

[JimWalshin845]

OK, ed out of the picture. The flex lining that extends from: I would guess the firebox area of the fireplace to who knows would typically suggest that an appliance( maybe insert) was installeed prior to the potential new stove. If there is a liner present in the chimney as was stated I would reccomend insulating at least the run from the roofline up at the min. That was my point. Should I be taking everything literally or try to look between the lines? Is it really a brick fireplace or is it a z-can with brick face? Is the flex liner stainless or aluminum? etc.

Just trying to help

Rick

Please to meet you Rick,

It appears you know quite a bit about stoves and their installation.... what a great quality! I try to look at the physical description literally and read into somethings that are emotional factors. Example, I suggested the shorter legs as an option for the horizontal clearance but I also went on a small diatrod on the dealer relationship.

I read into the post that the dealer sold him some flex pipe, maybe just enough to get him past the first bottom flue tile that would make code if he was using a damper plate in place. It appeared Matt was also sold a "T" for the connection and did not really need it for his install.

I think Matt would have referenced that it was a Zero Clearance box with a brickface if that was the case. Instead he mentioned 'metal header' and brick fireplace. I don't think 'Z-cans' are installed with 'T's with an interior flue chimney but I may be wrong.

So I guess the answer is "YES".. read between the lines but solve the initial problem based upon the given facts. I may not have the technical knowledge as per the newer stoves, but I have been burning stoves and furnaces since the mid '70s. I know a bit about construction and during one period even owned a "Z-Can".

OK... your turn, what do you perculate with and I am curious why you think a stainless liner would draft any different from an aluminum liner? We both know which one will fail first!

Hopefully Matt will give us some insight as to his particulars also.

Again, welcome aboard,
Jim

 

[NoSoot]

Jim,

It has been my experiance not to assume how much someone may or may not know when it comes to describing what is in there house. Granted it seems that a metal header does sound like an all brick fireplace but it could be the doortrack from a z-can with a brick face. The liner could be new sold with the unit but I would hope the retailer would sell the "kit" that would line the entire run not just a positive connect. It could be left from a previouis wood installation the did not work well. It could of been an old gas unit(thus aluminum). I guess the bottom line is that properly installed the new unit should work like a champ and Matt should buy the product from someone who has his best intrest in mind as far as the saftey and performance of the installation rather than just moving one more unit to increase thier bottom line.


Goodluck, Rick

 

[Gooserider]

I promise not to touch the ED either - I don't tilt that way! %-P

On my setup, the liner comes down, goes into a T, and the arm of the T plugs directly into my rear exit flue connector - with that short a run, pitch is essentially a non-issue.

I think the "T" is an extremely useful thing to have for cleaning and to prevent any creosote bits that fall back down the pipe from building up on the bend where they could potentially either obstruct things or cause a chimney fire, I would NOT replace the "T" as long as you can get a run that is reasonably level - perhaps add a support strap as an earlier poster suggested.

I would also want to double check the hearth requirements on any short leg kit, as sometimes going to a shorter leg can GREATLY increase the R-value requirement for the hearth pad.

My reading of the OP's setup sounds like it should work fine, no drastic measures needed. I do agree with the suggestion of insulating the part of the liner that sticks out of the roof (if one doesn't insulate the entire thing, which is preferable) and a blockoff plate is a must on the bottom, but it doesn't sound like there are major problems here to worry about.

Gooserider

 

[mattd81]

thanks for all the help! I hope the rest of my parts come soon? I want to finish the install its getting cold.

 

[JimWalshin845]

Good point that I forgot to mention and Goose caught it. If you do go with the shorter legs it may mean you will have to redesign the hearth floor.

 

[jodie]

Not to butt in, but I have a question for Gooserider; I'm having a problem with my new vc non-cat encore burning too hot. I have a similar set up liner to a T and the stove rear exit into the T arm. (Its a full stainless 8" flex liner ovalized at the bottom to get through the damper into an oval T). With a bed of coals I added 2 splits (I'm burning ash I split this summer) shut the stove down for the secondary burn and the griddle temp goes 600 to 700 degrees and stays there even with air control fully closed. I thought this maybe was the norm until I tried 3 splits, after an hour of keeping an eye on the thermometer (600-700) I walked away and 1/2 hr later it was 800! I don't want to damage the stove. What could be the cause? Am I getting too much draft? Or is it the stove? It does look like a crappy gasket job and the griddle appears to be too small for the top opening? Hope someone can share.

 

[JimWalshin845]

Did you do the dollar bill test on the gaskets. I have seen many posts with faulty ones. That's a good place to start while waiting for Goose.

Good luck and welcome to the forums!

 

[Gooserider]

I would agree, start with a dollar bill test on all the gaskets. Also check that you have THOROUGHLY sealed the venting connections - IIRC we had a problem a while back with a VC Everburn that appeared to be caused by air leaking in at the stove collar. Pay extra attention to the ashpan door - a leak there is extremely likely to cause a problem and, at least on my cat Encore, it is very easy to not close that door properly.

The other thing I would suggest is that if you don't solve the problem with gasket checking, is that you join in the existing lengthy thread on the problems that people have been having with getting their stoves with the cross-draft style systems to burn properly The folks in that thread have a lot more hands on with the VC Non-cats than I have.

6-700* is high for having the air closed completely, but it's within acceptable range, and short trips into the 800's are not generally a problem. However the usual / reccomended loading for the Encore is to stuff it full, let it char, then let it burn down to the point of just having enough coals for getting the next load going... Part of your issue might be that you aren't burning the stove properly.

If you have a gasket problem, that may take care of things right there. If not, it may be worth noting that you are using an 8" liner - The folks in that other thread I think have 6" liners for the most part. This may be a relevant issue.

Gooserider

 

[jodie]

Thank you for the info! Can you direct me to the other existing thread? It may be one I am already reading, just wondering. Everyone has been a great source of info!
Jodie