Wonderwood 2941

[MEWood]

Hi all,
Third season burning from my wonderwood 2941 in my basement. I’m 33. Have been running wood stoves since I was 8 in my home in Maine but all have been cast iron Jotuls.
External cinder block, chimney flu, added a New England stove SS liner 3 years ago.
Burning 2 year seasoned wood each year.
I have a question regarding the smell in my house. It’s a mix between creosote and smoke, more creosote. My side loading door has 3 holes with no plate covering them. Burns with no smell until the automatic damper closes on the front of the stove, then start to get the smell in the house.
Stove burns through wood like that’s its only job; can’t load for a long term burn or it will hit over fire. I do have a stove pipe damper which needs to be closed at 90% most of the time. Coals only last about an hour before fire dies. No smoke have ever filled the house. Chimney is clear of creosote, yet the load door tends to build some black on it. Anyone with experience with this stove and is this typical for the (not)wonderwood? Do I need to just bite the bullet and buy a real stove?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

How tall is your chimney?

 

[MEWood]

How tall is your chimney?

That’s my next step. But eyeballing it, appears to follow the 3,2, 10 rule

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Excellent!

Chimney height, and flue diameter can help tell us if the chimney is responsible for the bad stove performance.

 

[MEWood]

Excellent!

Chimney height, and flue diameter can help tell us if the chimney is responsible for the bad stove performance.

6” diameter. 90 degree off the stove to approx 3ft before another 90 to the pipe out the cement wall, then 24ish inches to another 90 degree, then 20 feet straight up.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Ok, thats a lot of 90s! Do you get the creosote smell when the key damper isn't closed?

 

[MEWood]

Yes it is a lot lol. Really nothing I could do. Chimney was already here and I got the stove for free.
Only time I get the smell is after the automatic damper on the face of the stove closes all the way when it reaches a certain temp. Otherwise I get no smell even with stove pipe damper closed or open. I haven’t closed the stove pipe completely horizontal, though.

 

[coaly]

May not be a stove or chimney issue, could be negative pressure common in basement installations.

Has this always done this, or is it something new?

Does the basement have a fresh air intake, or any other appliances or exhaust fans venting out? Dryer, gas water heater, radon fan? HVAC blower to circulate air?

Vents through floor for hot air to rise to next level, or open stair way for heated air to rise?

Not related to the smell issue;
Are you using a pipe thermometer of any kind as a guide to know how much you can close flue damper? A clean chimney is a sign you are burning fine, if not too hot. If you can go around door seals with a shaken out match or incense stick that will show smoke drawn into any air leaks. That will make it burn fast, and closing damper that much slows the uncontrolled air leaks into firebox.

 

[MEWood]

I am noticing more this year, most recently past 2 weeks.
We have a dryer in the basement, door remains closed.
Stove sits at the bottom of the stairs, door always open. I have removed all forced hot air return ducts so the vents are open to allow air flow up stairs at those points - did this 3 years ago.
Pipe thermometer is how I have been operating stove since I got it. When pipe gets to 400 I adjust key damper and stove damper

 

[MEWood]

The loading door and the ash tray door I would assume have air leaks as both have 3 holes in them, appear to be from factory but no plate or door to cover them

 

[coaly]

The loading door and the ash tray door I would assume have air leaks as both have 3 holes in them, appear to be from factory but no plate or door to cover them

I was referring to air leaks around door gaskets.

 

[coaly]

I am noticing more this year, most recently past 2 weeks.
We have a dryer in the basement, door remains closed.
Stove sits at the bottom of the stairs, door always open. I have removed all forced hot air return ducts so the vents are open to allow air flow up stairs at those points - did this 3 years ago.
Pipe thermometer is how I have been operating stove since I got it. When pipe gets to 400 I adjust key damper and stove damper

If you are referring to a interior door for a laundry room, the dryer draws air out of that room around the door, getting air from basement.

If you are referring to the door on dryer, the air intake gets indoor air to circulate through drum, exhausting outside. Any dryer vented outside removes indoor air.

You cannot draw basement air out of basement to force upstairs. This depressurizes basement, drawing down steps to get return air from upstairs. When the stove is not going, the mechanical blower can overpower the chimney easily, using the chimney as a intake.

You need to measure from return air ducts to the combustion air intake on stove. There must be a 10 foot isolation distance between the negative pressure return duct, and the stove intake. This is code for good reasons.

Each room the hot air furnace heats with a hot air duct requires a return air duct from that room. You can’t blow hot air into a space without returning the cooled air from it to be returned and reheated.

 

[MEWood]

Referring to dryer door.
Our furnace had no return ducts in same room that the furnace heated. Two in hallway that leads to basement and bedrooms, one in living room next to hallway. They all essentially dump into the open basement right on top of the forced air furnace. Each room heats equal to before return ducts were removed. I’ve done no air flow study but when furnace kicks on, I can feel air being pulled to basement and to the furnace. Furnace never runs when stove is operating and never runs for probably 10 hours after fire has died out.

Sort or confused on your comment on “cannot force air out of basement.” Are you saying basement door and all vents should essentially be closed off and only heating basement?
If your comment on measuring return duct is referring where they meet on the furnace, to the air intake on my stove, they are more than 10 feet apart, but the furnace is turned off when wood is burning

 

[MEWood]

we live in a 950sqft ranch. Even prior to ducts being gone, the furnace would draw enough pressure to close the basement door if left 1/4 open or less.

 

[coaly]

I was referring to return air ducts in basement supplying hot air to upstairs. It has to be balanced with as many ducts forcing air into a heated space as returning it.

If basement door closes when blower is on, there is less pressure downstairs as upstairs.

This means there is higher atmospheric pressure outside than in basement. The higher pressure air will push down chimney.

But if blower is not running with stove going, that is not your negative pressure issue.

Clothes dryers exhaust indoor air outside with the door shut. The exhaust blower pushes air out, and the air replenishing it comes from an intake opening on the dryer, removing air from basement.

 

[MEWood]

So I’m clear of the 10,3,2 parameters on my wood stove. I even added 24” of extra pipe today. It’s an external chimney from basement (below grade) all the way up. My forced hot air furnace chimney however, is not. Sitting at 16” above threshold. Will this cause a problem with my pressures and draft of wood stove? How do I go about correcting my pressure in the basement? Pretty sure my dryer pulls air in vs out when not in use, as does my furnace

 

[coaly]

Does the forced hot air furnace have a power vent, barometric damper, or induction air fan? These will all exhaust basement air.

The 10 foot isolation distance from return air duct is from the end of duct drawing air in, (negative pressure area) to the stove combustion air intake.

I’m reading this as you removed the return air ducts from the upstairs rooms being heated, and are drawing air using these return ducts from the basement. Does the furnace also supply heat with a duct into basement? If so, the same amount heating basement can be removed, preventing positive or negative pressures.

 

[MEWood]

Air furnace has barometric damper, and if wood stove and furnace are not running, flame from match or butane is drawing toward furnace (negative). Barometric damper seems to remain closed unless furnace runs, or when wood stove is burning, but not open at all times.

Return vent removed were from hallway with basement door (1 of 2, and no heating vent in this hallway) and 1 in living room which has 2 heat vents, and return vent is 3 ft away from removed hallway vent.

There is no heat being supplied to the basement with any ducts, just passive heat from the furnace itself operating.

 

[MEWood]

I am about to plug off my forced air furnace chimney and see if this changes the draft of my stove, which at this point also appears to be negative while cold and not burning. Wood stove is 2’ above the 10,3,2 rule

 

[coaly]

I am about to plug off my forced air furnace chimney and see if this changes the draft of my stove, which at this point also appears to be negative while cold and not burning. Wood stove is 2’ above the 10,3,2 rule

The barometric damper opening with wood stove hot is supplying combustion air down that chimney. That’s just where the stove is getting air from. If you shake out a match, or use an incense stick, that will show air coming in there.

I would turn on blower fan only and see if this opens the barometric damper too. If so, that shows the blower is pulling air from basement putting the stove in a negative pressure area. That’s bad.

This is the reason I was concerned about removing return docs from upstairs and drying that air out of the basement. The blower is pulling from the basement, not heating the air and returning it to the basement, putting the basement in a negative pressure area with the only returned through the open stairway door.

During the night as the fire dies in the stove and draft weakens in the chimney, the coals in the stove are still producing carbon monoxide. If the furnace runs or the blower is running, the blower is now drawing down the woodstove chimney pulling the carbon monoxide into the building and depositing it upstairs where you sleep. That is the reason for the 10 foot isolation distance between the negative pressure area of a return duct and the combustion air intake on the stove.

 

[MEWood]

Furnace does not run during night after fire has died, it’s turned on 10-12 hours after fire has died or I relight fire in AM. The wonderwood does not keep coals. Max ember is maybe 5 hours post last log after burning for hours during the day.

I cannot turn just the blower on my furnace. It’s either heat or off. It’s from the 70s. At least as far as I can tell.

I never have a smoke or soot smell in the house hours after I’ve done burning. It’s ONLY when the automatic damper on the stove has closed. At that point i cannot open it at all unless the temp on that damper has dropped enough to automatically open it and allow more draft through the stove

 

[MEWood]

the matchstick or incense shows air coming down as we speak. Without the furnace or the stove operating. As does the wood stove

 

[MEWood]

Bathroom and oven vents through roof are pushing warm air out, and the furnace and wood stove chimneys are both pulling cold air down through the chimneys. Single story ranch, concrete basement

 

[MEWood]

And there is a ten foot isolation between the wood stove and any return vents or the furnace itself

 

[MEWood]

If you see my picture I posted of the vents. A piece of paper dropped from the air will be sucked onto and trapped onto those vents. So air is being pulled from the upstairs through the return vents even though they have been taken out.. idk if that makes sense to you