Wood, coal, corn? (Also-coal prices in New Jersey?)

[Badfish740]

My fiancee and I were out for another long day of house hunting again today and may have come up big. We found a little ranch in Hunterdon County New Jersey that needs some updating but is otherwise solid and submitted an initial offer. The boiler (oil fired) is pretty old but if and when we close (probably March) I doubt we'll really be using it much. If we get this house I'd like to install a stove before next winter so that I can put off buying a new boiler even longer. I had initially never considered anything but wood, but I've been reading more and more about coal on this and other sites. Are there any New Jersey folks that burn coal here? If so where do you buy and how do you find the prices? The only coal dealer I know of near the place we're looking is actually in Sussex County about an hour away, but I have an F-350 with helpers in the rear so I could easily pick up a ton myself. I figure the prices should be somewhat reasonable since we're not that far from the anthracite regions of PA?

Now for questions about the stove. Oddly enough in another home we looked at today (not a keeper) I got an up close and personal look at a Harman TLC-2000. The owner wasn't home so I didn't get to ask any questions, but it looked like a nice unit. Am I correct in saying that switching from wood to coal and vice versa in this stove is just a matter of readjusting the air controls? How about corn? Also, since coal tends to burn longer, could I heat with wood during the day and shovel some coal onto the hot embers at night before I go to bed for a good eight to ten hour burn?

 

[pcampbell]

badfish I think I'm having forum flashes here. You sound like someone from the city data forum

Let me know if you find anything. We are boggling between a pellet and gas stove to hopefully shut off the monster furnace that is sucking gas down.

I have found $300 per ton of pellets up in NY by Suffern but I haven't checked the place in Fairfield - we are going to go look there today if they are open to check out some stoves. This price per ton seems very expensive compared to what others around the country state but more expensive for a non typical resource for northern NJ sounds about normal unfortunately.

 

[webbie]

For serious 47/7 heating, I would say you will not beat the price of hard coal up that way. You are relatively close to the mines, and I'll bet some fishing will find a supplier or two who would be willing to deliver.

Very few stoves burn both wood and coal well - the Harman may be the only one. Forum member Corie (a stove R&D;engineer) is very familiar with it, but I think you are right that it can easily switched. In reality, IMHO, folks will tend to burn wood in the shoulder season and then coal during the cold weather.....it is not typical that people switch back and forth on a daily or hourly basis since the ash from one fuel tend to mess up the other one.

I lived in South Jersey fo 25 years and did burn coal both in freestanding stoves and in a central heat boiler.

I think you are headed in the right direction by starting your research now...this will help you flash out what you really want to do. You have to decide the exact reasons for your stove - recreation, saving money, a source of warmth, backup heat, etc. - different stoves and fuels may server each purpose better.

 

[Corie]

As far as wood/coal stoves go, fire away! If anything is my forte I would consider it to be this type of stove. Unfortunately you will not find a unit certified to burn wood that can also burn coal on the market today. There was one stove, that I am aware of, that was certified for wood and also burned coal, but it has not been produced since the mid-90s. That stove would the Harman CW-30 "E". Otherwise, the TLC-2000 is a very capable coal stove, and with independent airwash air controls will also burn wood. However, it doesn't have any secondary combustion system and so will never be as clean or efficient as a stove designed to burn wood only. It is however, a high quality unit, built well and utilizing Harman's superb shaker grate system.

You're be very happy with it if you were considering burning mostly coal and as Craig said, burning wood only in the shoulder seasons. Harman also makes larger and smaller coal stoves, although none have the features or overall aesthetics of the TLC-2000.

Other companies also make coal stoves, both hand fired, gravity fed and stoker. Some companies to look at would be:

Leisure Line - Coal stoker stoves only.
Alaska - Coal stoker and gravity fed hopper stoves.
Keystoker - Coal stoker, hand fed and gravity fed.
Hitzer - Gravity fed and hand fed.
Vermont Castings - The Vigilant is a hand fed coal stove with some of the best looks on the market, IMO.

Some out of business companies or out of production stoves with a reputation for high quality units

Russo - Hand fed stoves in a large variety of sizes.
Gibraltar - Same as above.
Jotul - Used to make a small, upright three door coal stove.


There are also others, but those are the ones that immediately come to mind. If you have any questions, please feel free.



Maybe I should do a wiki write-up entitled "So you'd like to burn coal". What do you think Craig?

 

[Highbeam]

If your sole reason to purchase this stove is to prevent buying a boiler.... stoves are not cheap. Expect to pay twice the stove cost to add a chiney system if the current chimney is missing or insufficient. That could add up to 4000$ pretty quick. What does the boiler replacement cost? Maybe a cool boiler replacement with one of the multifuel boilers. I would tend to get the primary central heater working well before going down the stove route.

 

[Badfish740]

If your sole reason to purchase this stove is to prevent buying a boiler.... stoves are not cheap. Expect to pay twice the stove cost to add a chiney system if the current chimney is missing or insufficient. That could add up to 4000$ pretty quick.

HA! Good thing my fiancee isn't reading this! I admit that it's somewhat of a ploy to justify a stove purchase sooner rather than later (like before she gets new kitchen cabinets ), as the boiler is working fine, its just an older unit, and like most older units is probably horribly inefficient. That being said its doing a fine job of keeping the house toasty warm right now. I guess I just want a good excuse for hauling coal around, splitting wood, felling trees, etc...

 

[jtb51b]

Corie what about my old US stove? It deems itself wood/coal.. I'll probably never use it with coal but it would be nice to hear your take on it..

Jason

 

[Corie]

I'm guessing you're referring to the Wondercoal stoves, the cabinet style, side loading units.


My take is that they'll probably burn coal, because they do have a grate mechanism, but I've seen the relatively thing sheet metal used for the firebox and I would be nervous burning coal in a stove like that. I've seen a few photo sets where the inside of those Wondercoal stoves looked like it was made with steel ribbons the way everything was so bent and twisted.

 

[jtb51b]

Yep! Thats the one. I burn wood in mine and it does great thus far. I've only had it installed for a month or so but I love it. I will be putting a newer stove upstairs as soon as $$$ permits, but for now this one does fine. I do think the firebox is a bit on the thin side, but at least its lined with firebrick. I do have 2 busted bricks, probably due to the previous owner burning coal in it. This old stove sat un used from 1983 until I installed it and everything but the gaskets seem fine. Thanks for the clarification-- I thought I had missed something on them being deemed completely unfit for coal...

Jason

 

[berlin]

first of all, old oil fired boilers are not signifigantly less efficient than new oil fired boilers- seriously. have it cleaned and serviced and it will be darn near the same as any new oil fired boiler; don't waste your money!

you really cant beat hard coal stoker stoves or even stoker boilers for convienience and winter- long heating. as close as you are to penn. and with your f-350 if you rent/borrow a dump trailer you will be able to go to the coal breakers and pick up 5 tons bulk for around 170/ton, much less than oil !

 

[Badfish740]

first of all, old oil fired boilers are not signifigantly less efficient than new oil fired boilers- seriously. have it cleaned and serviced and it will be darn near the same as any new oil fired boiler; don't waste your money!

Good to know-all I hear is that old boilers suck! If I can service it and keep it that sounds good to me!

if you rent/borrow a dump trailer you will be able to go to the coal breakers and pick up 5 tons bulk for around 170/ton, much less than oil !

I'll just burn the leftover oil in my truck! LOL That is until the taxman gets me for using dyed fuel in an on-road diesel. This brings up an important question though-just how much heat is in one ton of coal? Obviously there are many variables (home size, insulation, outside temps, desired interior temps, etc...) but how much coal do you generally use per day? 5lbs? 10lbs? 20lbs? How does a ton of coal compare with a cord of good hardwood? A ton of corn? 250 gallons of oil?

 

[welldriller]

I am burning a old style Resolute, I have a set of grates, coal hopper and some different inside wall parts for my stove that I have never used. The stove came with the house and I have always burned wood and am very happy with it except the lenght of burn on really cold nights.I have toyed with the idea of installing all of the coal workings but would be fumbling in the dark. I have googled looking for info on the coal option and have had little luck. My brother Burns coal in a old pot belly and has great luck with it .. He told me to burn coal you must first forget everything you know about burning wood. If anyone could help with Resolute burning coal I would be most grateful

 

[dpecota]

Hi Badfish740,

I live in Bethlehem Township in northern Hunterdon County. Fox lumber on West Main Street in the town of Clinton near the Clinton House restaurant sells pea and stove size coal. It is Anthracite coal; the hottest and cleanest burning type of coal. The Lehigh Valley over the Delaware in PA is known for its Anthracite coal. Last year I think it was $210.00 a ton. Give them a call to find this year’s price. They are nice at Fox Lumber they let me take some to see how I liked burning it. The guy who I buy hay from heats with coal from them. He has a top feed stove that uses pea coal. It is has thermostatic control and with automatic feed he said it sure beats the electric heat and is definitely less work than wood. I burned some stove coal in the wood/coal/oil furnace in my basement. It took a little while to get the hang of burning the coal. The first time I placed the coal on my bed of wood coals I new I was going to fail. I could tell the wood coals were going out and the coal never caught. You need a good bed of wood coals to get Anthracite going. I got the hang of it but did not burn much since I always seemed to get a little smell of burning coal in the basement once in a while when reloading or shaking. I have two little pot belly pigs that sleep by the furnace in the winter and I did not like to leave them with the smell. Coal ashes kill living things and need to go in the garbage. My neighbor has a nice cast iron coal stove in his living room he likes. The furnace in my basement has a fire box for wood but the manufacture provides a coal grate. I had to manage a pile of coals in the rear of the file box. I think coal stoves have a smaller more square fire box design and may be easier to burn than the one in my house.

Good luck
Dean

 

[webbie]

Maybe I should do a wiki write-up entitled "So you'd like to burn coal". What do you think Craig?

Do it, Man......

 

[webbie]

I am burning a old style Resolute, I have a set of grates, coal hopper and some different inside wall parts for my stove that I have never used. The stove came with the house and I have always burned wood and am very happy with it except the lenght of burn on really cold nights.I have toyed with the idea of installing all of the coal workings but would be fumbling in the dark. I have googled looking for info on the coal option and have had little luck. My brother Burns coal in a old pot belly and has great luck with it .. He told me to burn coal you must first forget everything you know about burning wood. If anyone could help with Resolute burning coal I would be most grateful

The coal stuff for that particular stove will drive you MAD. Don't do it. VC made these to retrofit wood stoves, and retrofits do not usually work well. The only decent VC retrofit back then was for their original Fireplace Insert...that one worked decently.

Keep burning wood in it, or sell it and get a coal stove.

You are right about the difference between burning each. If you follow the guidelines at our Coal Tips (to the letter), you will be an expert in no time!
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/coaltips

 

[webbie]

Corie what about my old US stove? It deems itself wood/coal.. I'll probably never use it with coal but it would be nice to hear your take on it..

Jason

Amazingly enough, some of these old thin coal burners work quite well, and will last for many years. Many of the early coal stoves - like Warm Morning, etc. - were built with sheet metal sides. The main thing is to have only cast iron or firebrick in contact with the coal itself. The temperature falls off very quickly after that point (in the stove) because the heat in coal is from the embers, not from gases.

 

[jtb51b]

Interesting. Again, I'll probably never burn coal but there is an abundance of it lying around some of the places we jeep ride at. Probably could get a 5Gal bucket of it everytime I rode but not sure in the least how to even get started. Wood was fairly easy (even tho I am still leaning) but coal seems a bit tougher?

Jason

 

[Corie]

It has begun.


https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Prospective_Coal_Stove_User_Guide/