Wood insert for tight clearance to combustable top trim.

[paanta]

Hi all,

I'm trying to decide on a wood burning insert to fit an opening without a lot of clearance to combustible materials. I'm glad I decided to install it myself, because the advice I got from the installer was "Oh, it's a huge fireplace. Get whatever you want and I'll do the installation for $1400." Doing a little research, it seems like almost nothing will _safely_ work with the existing configuration.

The fireplace opening is 27 3/4" high by 35" wide and 19" deep, so just about any insert will physically fit.

The fireplace is flush with the floor. The hearth extends out 21", so that's not too much of a problem. The wood mantel is at 45", which is tight for most of the medium-sized inserts.

The real problem is that the wall the insert is going into is pine paneled, and the trim starts at a hair over 36.5." Even that requires replacing the molding with something fireproof.

The Quadrafire 2700i would work (14" clearance over the 22 1/16" height). It seems like nothing else will, even with the optional heat shields.

Are there other < $2000 inserts that would work with such a small clearance to combustibles? I have no interest in tearing apart the mantel and whatnot. Almost everything I've seen would require us to both raise the mantle and ditch the pine paneling in favor of something less burnable. The house is ~1600 SF upstairs, so it make use of a pretty good sized insert, though the goal isn't heating the whole house. Having something that'll burn overnight would be nice, though.

A photo of the fireplace is attached.

-Pat

 

[begreen]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the pine paneling doesn't appear to be any more of an issue than if this was a sheetrock wall. The trim around the fireplace surround is a slight issue, but not serious. As far as the mantle goes, it can be shielded either at the stove or at the mantel with 1" spacers.

What stove do you want to put in? What do the local dealers carry?

 

[paanta]

Ideally I'd like to do the Pacific Energy Super or Quadrafire 3100i. Both are available locally and people seem generally happy with them.

The 3100i's installation manual says it needs 41.5" of clearance from the floor to the mantel or any combustible trim/surface WITH the mantel shield on it. The Pacific Energy wants even more.

It seems a little overly cautious, but I really don't want to burn down the house.

Now I know why all those product guides show them installed in huge walls of field stone.

 

[andybaker]

I installed a Kozy Heat ZC fireplace, a Z42. I had similar issues with clearance to a $1000 mantel I didn't want to replace. This fireplace worked really well, not sure about the side issues. It has two duct outlets at the top to run heat to other parts of the house that allow for as even smaller clearance if my memory serves me right. Check out their website and you can download a manual to see for yourself. I had mine installed, but after I saw how easy it was I could have done it myself. Might have taken a little longer, but would have been better. When building something you always run into a situation that you hadn't thought about before or didn't realize to improve it, so when you have someone else do it there's not the time to do that. It took me a long time to find the right fireplace so good luck.

 

[begreen]

Both are good choices. I'll have to look at the 3100i's manual. In the meantime, take a look at Tom's guide for the Super. It's a bit more intuitive and illustrates the mantel shield alternative.

(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/cpacsupins.htm)

 

[paanta]

Both are good choices. I'll have to look at the 3100i's manual. In the meantime, take a look at Tom's guide for the Super. It's a bit more intuitive and illustrates the mantel shield alternative.

(broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/cpacsupins.htm)

I'd be fine with the mantel shield according to that guide, so that's great. It's this that gets me: Minimum Height from Hearth or floor of fireplace to Combustible Trim 49-9/16". I've only got 36 inches to where the wood paneling starts... Is there a way to shield the trim/wall that manufacturers approve of?

Thanks for all the help. I get a bit nervous when fire is involved.

 

[DAKSY]

IMHO, remove the mantel & add some
non-combustible material above the fireplace opening.
You say you "have no interest in tearing apart the mantel & whatnot."
Looks like you don't have a choice.
Suck it up & install it right...
You'll be safe & glad of it...

 

[paanta]

If my choice is between the Quad 2700i (which people seem to like) installed easily, and a PE Super that requires adding 20 inches of tile and relocating my mantel up another 6 inches, I'll probably go with the Quadrafire. I'm sure I can find a use for the extra thousand bucks I save...

Are there other models that anyone knows of that can be installed with wood trim starting ~36" above the fireplace floor?

Answering my own question a bit after going through lots and lots of user manuals. Other candidates: Osburn 1800/2200/2400 and Lopi Answer/Revere 1250

The Osburns require _way_ less clearance than other similarly sized inserts. Even their monster 2400 will get by with that top trim at ~35".

Now I'm leaning towards the Osburn 2200 insert. Does anyone have any horror stories about them? The reviews on here seem mostly positive.

 

[tickbitty]

I have also been looking at (and sizing) inserts to fit a fireplace with a wood mantel surround that seems to fall within the clearances. Do a search for "mantel shield" and you will see all kinds of solutions people have had who have similar issues. Basically you just need to install a shield to reduce these clearances by up to 9" or so. Some people use the mantel shields that are sold by their stove manufacturer that mount above the stoves, some actually mount the shields to the mantels/surrounds themselves. They have to have ceramic spacers creating an airspace between your woodwork and the metal shield which deflects the heat. Some people have done are quite attractive (copper, etc) some not so much. But it can be done and you shouldn't have to tear out your walls to be safe.

 

[tickbitty]

When I checked out the specs on several inserts I think the Regency Hearth heater and Regency Medium inserts fell within pretty small clearances, as did the hardware store brands (Vozelgang, Englander, Summer's heat). The lopi stoves would need a mantel shield but that's it.

 

[begreen]

Note there are two heights listed on the link provided. But this is the reduced clearance listing:
M(a): Minimum Height from Hearth or fireplace floor to Combustible Mantel w/ Shield..... 30-9/16"

One option could be to remove the paneling between the fireplace opening and the mantel and replace it with a non-combustible surface, but it would help to see the whole picture before recommending this change. The mantel is not shown in the original post. Can you post a full view shot of the fireplace with the mantel?

 

[paanta]

Here are some larger photos.

I've never seen behind the paneling or under the hearth tiles. The paneling below the mantel comes out 3/4" farther than it does above the mantel, and the back of the mantel rests on that shelf provided by the paneling. ie, I can't simply cut out the paneling without mucking with the mantel, too.

After looking at clearance specs and prices and reviews, I like the Osburn 1600. Can't beat the $1350 (shipped) price. The 1800 has a great view of the fire, but the 1600 looks more like a stove. Their 2400 model is overkill in a 1400 SF house.

The plan would be to re-line the chimney with a 6" liner and Thermix. An insulating blanket won't clear the the joints in the tile liner. It's an interior chimney, so we could probably get away without insulation, but it can't hurt. Power for the blower will come up through the ash door. I don't know what the best way to protect the cord from heat is. I'll probably try to use the ash dump for the air intake, too. This insert requires 3" a hearth extension if we mount it 3.5" out from the facing. If we mount it flush, we're ok for hearth depth. We'll probably make a temporary hearth extension this year and extend/re-tile it next spring.

The molding around the outside of the stone surround will need to go. It starts at 34" but 35.5" is the required clearance to combustible facing. It sits on top of the paneling. I'm not sure what to do about it.

What exactly is the definition of "combustible facing"? There's no R-value listed in the manual. Do I need to cut out the wood paneling under the molding and build it up from cement board with tile on top, or can I put a piece of non-combustible trim on top of the pine after I remove the molding? Is there non-combustible 2" wide molding made with a good R-value? Or should I fabricate some sort of heat deflector and attach it to the stove's faceplate below the molding? That doesn't meet the manufacturer's spec, but it seems just as good (actually, better) from a safety standpoint. Adds protection for the mantle, too.