Wood Pellets Are Big Business

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JustWood

Minister of Fire
Aug 14, 2007
3,596
Arrow Bridge,NY
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HP52NOVA

Member
Dec 11, 2014
132
Northern Virginia
Domestic and export pellets are 2 different animals . They don't price compete.

Sorry, I don't buy that. They all come from the same place and there a finite quantity. Even if they don't price compete, they create shortage, which in turn makes the domestic prices go up. We don't need an economics master to figure that one out.

The pellet shortages, inconsistent deliveries to the dealers and price hikes (didn't someone pay $8 per bag the other day?) we just saw this month speak volumes. Where did all the pellets go?
 

JustWood

Minister of Fire
Aug 14, 2007
3,596
Arrow Bridge,NY
Sorry, I don't buy that. They all come from the same place and there a finite quantity. Even if they don't price compete, they create shortage, which in turn makes the domestic prices go up. We don't need an economics master to figure that one out.

The pellet shortages, inconsistent deliveries to the dealers and price hikes (didn't someone pay $8 per bag the other day?) we just saw this month speak volumes. Where did all the pellets go?
Very high percentage of low quality woods going into an export pellet that don't go into pellets made in the mid west and north east. Southern forests have totally different woods than those in the northern half of the country.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
Very high percentage of low quality woods going into an export pellet that don't go into pellets made in the mid west and north east. Southern forests have totally different woods than those in the northern half of the country.

Wrong again? I believe Lake Girl posted a while back (on another thread (I can't remember which to link) that Canadian pellet plants are exporting massive amounts and just built a loading port to load seagoing vessels for European export)

So, the northern plants are exporting as well. She posted a chart of tons produced and exported as well.

Your theory holds no water.....(or pellets for that matter).....;lol

Lake Girl, would you repost your chart on this thread please?
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
I'll burn corn and call it good._g I can grow and burn it handily.
 

JustWood

Minister of Fire
Aug 14, 2007
3,596
Arrow Bridge,NY
Wrong again? I believe Lake Girl posted a while back (on another thread (I can't remember which to link) that Canadian pellet plants are exporting massive amounts and just built a loading port to load seagoing vessels for European export)

So, the northern plants are exporting as well. She posted a chart of tons produced and exported as well.

Don't think yur getting the jist.
Same low grade/density/BTU crap wood that is down south just different regional species. Harvesting/hauling methods in Canada are different which utilizes more of the tree = more cost effective. Much of this wood is unsuitable even for paper pulp = industrial pellet.
 

JustWood

Minister of Fire
Aug 14, 2007
3,596
Arrow Bridge,NY
I'll burn corn and call it good._g I can grow and burn it handily.
If many more pellet burners could get over the "pretty" aspect of their stove and use multifuels the pellet market would stabilize. In the near future I believe you'll see many more pellet options besides wood.
 

olmec

Burning Hunk
Oct 31, 2014
101
NH
As a new pellet burner, im finding that its kinda a stressful way to heat. "Where will i be able to get pellets?" "How much more are they gonna be this year?" "What are the garbage pellets to stay away from?". I have electric baseboard so its much cheaper but when will pellet heat become more expensive and not worth the headache?
 

bogieb

Minister of Fire
Oct 31, 2014
3,085
South Central NH
If many more pellet burners could get over the "pretty" aspect of their stove and use multifuels the pellet market would stabilize. In the near future I believe you'll see many more pellet options besides wood.

I would like to try burning corn (both my stoves can handle a mix), but finding corn, for a decent price isn't easy around here (or at least, not for me). I could actually go someplace about 60 miles away and get a few bags, but it is $295/ton (and more for individual bags - which is what I would have to get). Right now I am paying just over $235/ton for FSU's, by the bag, and getting them close to where I work so only go about 10 extra miles per trip. Also, I believe (although I am unsure), I would have to change out my venting - adding more cost.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
Don't think yur getting the jist.
Same low grade/density/BTU crap wood that is down south just different regional species. Harvesting/hauling methods in Canada are different which utilizes more of the tree = more cost effective. Much of this wood is unsuitable even for paper pulp = industrial pellet.

Maybe not, but I have options. A lot of people especially out east, don't. The certainly seems to be a shortage of pellets, not that I care, I'm covered pellet and corn wise.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
If many more pellet burners could get over the "pretty" aspect of their stove and use multifuels the pellet market would stabilize. In the near future I believe you'll see many more pellet options besides wood.

Hatman's are pretty and so are Quads and both run corn just fine or a corn/pellet mix, just fine. I presume (not owning one) that if they are corn capable, they are also various grain and other biofuel capable as well.

Just because it's a multifuel don't mean it has to be ugly.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
If the corn is more expensive, my question would be "why"?

Maybe out east like where you reside 'New Hampster'...it is but it isn't in the midwest not the south nor the west. Corn isn't a popular ag crop oiut your way but it is here. Looks to me like living out east you are at a disadvantage fuel wise.
 

JustWood

Minister of Fire
Aug 14, 2007
3,596
Arrow Bridge,NY
It's not my judgement that they are ugly.
Too many new stove buyers figure in the "fashion show " aspect at the lowest possible price instead of realistic features.
Hatman's are pretty and so are Quads and both run corn just fine or a corn/pellet mix, just fine. I presume (not owning one) that if they are corn capable, they are also various grain and other biofuel capable as well.

Just because it's a multifuel don't mean it has to be ugly.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
It's not my judgement that they are ugly.
Too many new stove buyers figure in the "fashion show " aspect at the lowest possible price instead of realistic features.

Mine is ugly and I admit it. My purchase was entirely predicated on flexible fuel use, with up front cost second and looks, dead last. No fashion statement out here in the sticks.....

I'm looking hard at a coal stoker. I'll have to go a ways for rice coal but it might be worth the trip.
 
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Johnny_Fiv3

Feeling the Heat
Oct 12, 2014
339
North Rose, NY
Mine is ugly and I admit it. My purchase was entirely predicated on flexible fuel use, with up front cost second and looks, dead last. No fashion statement out here in the sticks.....

I'm looking hard at a coal stoker. I'll have to go a ways for rice coal but it might be worth the trip.

Same here. This stove is not pretty. Fortunately I have a wife who likes the rugged/rustic look. I too am looking at a coal stoker for the future. Rice coal is insanely easy to get around here.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
Same here. This stove is not pretty. Fortunately I have a wife who likes the rugged/rustic look. I too am looking at a coal stoker for the future. Rice coal is insanely easy to get around here.

A coal stoker here would mean a trip to at least Ohio with the truck and gooseneck for a load of bagged rice coal but then I also have another friend who is contemplating one as well. Probably Hitzers or Keystokers.

Years ago I heated with coal in a manual stoker and it's nce, warm, even heat and they are really not continuous hands on like people think. The newest stoker stoves will run almost 100 hours on a fill, thats almost 4 1/2 days. My pellet stove cannot do that and a coal stoker puts out way more heat than a pellet stove does for the same physical size.

There seems to be an issue with ash dissposal (coal ash) but I always dumped mine in the gravel driveway.....

If I lives out east, I'd be looking at a coal stove over a pellet stove, especially considering the pellet shortage out there.... Blaschak coal is available out east, I'm sure.
 
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Johnny_Fiv3

Feeling the Heat
Oct 12, 2014
339
North Rose, NY
A coal stoker here would mean a trip to at least Ohio with the truck and gooseneck for a load of bagged rice coal but then I also have another friend who is contemplating one as well. Probably Hitzers or Keystokers.

Years ago I heated with coal in a manual stoker and it's nce, warm, even heat and they are really not continuous hands on like people think. The newest stoker stoves will run almost 100 hours on a fill, thats almost 4 1/2 days. My pellet stove cannot do that and a coal stoker puts out way more heat than a pellet stove does for the same physical size.

There seems to be an issue with ash dissposal (coal ash) but I always dumped mine in the gravel driveway.....

LA LA LA, didn't hear that...

LOL, not a big deal for disposal here in NY though.
 
Jan 10, 2009
17
Houlton, Maine
If prices get out of hand I will partner with a few friends and make our wood pellets...wood material is no problem.

Check out a video China vs Europe mills.

 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
You might like this better and it's made in Ossian, Indiana. www.buskirkeng.com Not China and not Europe. Buskirk uses a 4 roller die plate system, the Chinese extruders use 2

They build mills, hammer mills and complete portable turn key plants.

The big issue with a conventional ring gear extruder is cost and motive power. Smaller extruders that operate on the 'sgueeze through a die pate' method are much more economical but the feedstock must still be 'homoginized' (hammer milled) and be wet (damp) (just like a ring extruder). The pellets come out hot and damp and must be dried and cooled and die plate extruders tend to produce odd length pellets and some stoves are particular as to length.

It's all good but initial investment is more than many bags of commercial pellets.
 
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Jan 10, 2009
17
Houlton, Maine
You might like this better and it's made in Ossian, Indiana. www.buskirkeng.com Not China and not Europe. Buskirk uses a 4 roller die plate system, the Chinese extruders use 2

They build mills, hammer mills and complete portable turn key plants.

The big issue with a conventional ring gear extruder is cost and motive power. Smaller extruders that operate on the 'sgueeze through a die pate' method are much more economical but the feedstock must still be 'homoginized' (hammer milled) and be wet (just like a ring extruder). The pellets come out hot and damp and must be dried and cooled and die plate extruders tend to produce odd length pellets and some stoves are particular as to length.

It's all good but initial investment is more than many bags of commercial pellets.

What would be the price of the a portable unit? Also the portable unit include the dryer?
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
What would be the price of the a portable unit? Also the portable unit include the dryer?

I don't know, you'd have to contact Buskirk. their phone number is on their website. Additionally, Buskirk has been around for a long time, over 15 years at least. Buskirk is real, that is, I've been by their shop in Indiana before. Buskirk does a turn key system complete so I assume, other than a bagging line, the pellets are finished on the tail end.

I preused the small pellet mill website and from what I can see, their pelletizer is exactly like the Chinese ones, right down to the 2 roller matrix (nice way to say squeezer) and die plate. Buskirk's are 4 roller USA made. You only have 2 choices really, a ring die extruder and a squeezer and you aren't buiying a rin die extruder, you aren't that wealthy (I don't think at least).

A typical commercial ring extrusion pelletizer is a 200-400 horsepower unit that still needs a hammermill in fromt and a dryer in the back.

Being a retired machinist by trade I know a little bit about this stuff.....

For me, corn is the answer, thank the Lord for that.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Feb 7, 2010
5,273
S.E. Michigan
There was a complete pellet plant for sale up your way, I saw it on a machinery auction site a while back. All machinery but no real estate. Think it was in New Hampshire.
 
Jan 10, 2009
17
Houlton, Maine
There was a complete pellet plant for sale up your way, I saw it on a machinery auction site a while back. All machinery but no real estate. Think it was in New Hampshire.

Thanks, looking online under portable wood pellets there are few manufacture out there. this is something I been thinking about getting into for awhile.
 
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