Wood Stove for a 1,200 Sq Foot House in Northern VT?

[Serrinon]

Serrinon, could you please explain your statement that the Woodstock stove is too big? You have no way of picking it up too. Do you mean to pick it up physically or pick it up from the factory?

I ask this because I did the picking up using a Pontiac Vibe and a small trailer. Even with my bad back I was able to get the crate off the trailer and onto a furniture dolly. Picking it up off the floor and putting it onto the hearth was done with help of a couple of neighbors. (We did not uncrate the stove until we had it directly in front of the hearth.)

Sure no problem, I have a little 2 door hatchback, which can probably handle the 265 lb Jotul once I put the back seats down. And worst case scenario I'll borrow a Home Depot Truck and drive it back and forth about 40 miles each way to the store. But I have a hard time imagining a 475lb stove in the back of my car and successfully transporting it about 90 miles from my house to the Woodstock warehouse and then somehow getting it up the stairs and through the front door and into my living room. The task seems a bit daunting to me so delivery would be the only options. However, that doesn't even sound that great because they only deliver to "shipping terminals" or business deliveries, so I'd still have to deal with transporting the 475LB stove and getting it up into my home.

The Jotul F3 or another stove seems like a more practical option for me, but if Woodstock is head and shoulders over all of the rest, maybe I could find a way to spend a few hundred extra dollars hiring some help getting it to my house. But I'd rather save the money and headache if there are other comparable options out there.

The Napoleon 1400 and 1100 units also seemed interesting, although it doesn't appear to qualify for the tax credit and it's "designed" for up to 2,000 square feet:
http://www.appliancesconnection.com/i146420-napoleon-1400pl.html?ref=froogle
http://www.appliancesconnection.com/i146412-napoleon-1100pl.html

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I agree that putting a stove in that car would be a problem. However, renting a U-Haul trailer for a day is pretty cheap.

Getting the stove into the house for us proved to be not a problem at all. The furniture dolly we bought from Harbor Freight a long time ago for $12.00 so that was not a problem nor was getting the stove (still crated) onto the dolly. Getting it up onto the porch was the most interesting but still not a big problem. I had a couple of 2 x 10 planks that are 8' long so I laid them from the top of the porch to the ground. We then wrapped a rope around the crate. One guy on each end of the rope and one at the bottom pushing up and guiding it straight. We then also used the planks from the porch up into the house. Getting it up on the raised hearth we built, we first had to uncrate the stove. Then we put a couple of 2 x 4's under the stove and lifted it onto the hearth. One guy, again, stood in front of the stove making sure it did not tip and the other two were one on each side. It went amazingly fast and surprised me as I thought it was going to be a big problem.

For shipping, I had several choices. I finally decided either the local hardware or the tire shop. Because I have done business with both, either would receive the stove for me as long as I agreed to pick it up the same day it was delivered. I went with the tire shop. I called him to let him know when it was to be delivered. Then I called him on the day of delivery (found it had just been delivered) and then went to pick it up. That was a 20 mile round trip. Although the guy did not charge me for receiving or even putting it onto my trailer, I stuck a $20 bill into his pocket. After all, he has also given me deals (he is a Stihl dealer also) and it did use his equipment and maybe 5 minutes of his time.

btw, I do not think your other choices are bad. I just know what our Woodstock stove does and it does much more than I expected it to. In addition, this is a company who does not use any hard sell tactics and is indeed run like an old business. They are a good company to do business with and make a top notch product.

I also had forgotten to comment on the cat with the Woodstock stove. You mentioned breakage. You can not hit the cat with a piece of wood. No breakage problem. They have to be cleaned every so often. How often depends upon you and your fuel. A child could do the cleaning. It is that easy. It usually takes me 2-3 minutes at most. We have cleaned our cat 2 times per season and no doubt could get by with doing it only after the heating season is done, but 2-3 minutes to clean is no problem.

One more thing. With this stove, cleaning the chimney is rare. We used to clean our chimney 3-4 times per heating season. When we starting burning the Fireview, we cleaned the chimney only after 2 heating seasons and got somewhere around a cup of soot. We did check it at the end of the 2009-10 heating season but it does not need any cleaning. Of course having good dry wood is part of the reason for that but we burned the same wood with our old stove!

One more recommendation. I still feel the first step in beginning to burn wood is to get the fuel first! Probably 99% or more of first year burners have problems with their fuel....and the wood seller told them it was good seasoned wood. I feel you should have a 2-3 year supply of wood on hand at all times. Wood simply needs time to dry properly.

Good luck to you.

 

[begreen]

Serrinon, experience has made us a bit skeptical of sq ftg claims because they are often inaccurate and totally relative to the geography, type of wood burned, stove location, house leakage, etc.. You will see most here are trying to steer you toward a 2 cu ft stove. The stoves I posted are all 2 cu ft. The reason for this is that the larger firebox is going to give you longer burn times. It doesn't matter if it is rated for 2000 sq ft because that may be with a full load of wood. There is nothing stopping you from burning a partial load of wood in the stove. But when winter is at its peak, and a blizzard is blowing with -10 deg. temps, you will be loading that stove full of wood. Then the difference between filling it every 2-3 hrs and every 8 hrs really becomes apparent.

I've had the F3CB, it's a great little stove and if you push it, the stove can heat 1300 sq ft. It's not a bad stove at all if the goal is chill chasing on nights and weekends. If that is the goal, then it should work fine. But if the goal is to stay warm when the power goes out, I'd get a larger firebox. With a small firebox, when it's -10 outside, you will be stoking a small firebox like a coal man on a locomotive and overnight burns will be wishful thinking.

 

[BrowningBAR]

With a small firebox, when it's -10 outside, you will be stoking a small firebox like a coal man on a locomotive and overnight burns will be wishful thinking.

As an Intrepid owner I can say; Yes you will.

 

[Serrinon]

Thank you guys for all of the great information, I feel like I'm learning a lot and starting to get a better sense of what it will be like to own a wood stove and hopefully that will help me make a good final decision on my purchase

I'm still pretty nervous about the weight of the Woodstock, but I really appreciate that you laid out exactly how to get it into a home. If I can find a friend or two that are willing to make the journey I might be able to make it work. In the mean time I'll go ahead and order some more wood, the wood that I have is over a year old, so I've got at least one cord ready to go!

I'm going to start focusing on stoves that can heat 2K feet. Are there any drawbacks to burning a partial load instead of a full load? I'm guessing I'll be doing that frequently because my well insulated 1,200 ft home should heat up pretty fast. I had read that it was very important to run your stove "properly" to avoid clogging up your chimney. Will I be able to get my stove to the "right" temperature with a partial load?

BrowningBAR, how larger of an area were you heating with your Intrepid II?

 

[begreen]

Dry wood is the first and most important part of burning cleanly. Get that part down and it's usually not hard to avoid serious creosote build up. Most of us burn a partial load during the shoulder seasons of fall and spring. When burning, you let the stove get up to temperature, but instead of feeding it again, you let the fire die out. For example, our stove will take a big bellyful of wood (3 cu ft), but does pretty well with about 1/3 that amount. So I usually burn 2-3 splits when it's not too cold out. Less than that and it doesn't really get up to clean burning temps.

Clean burning at lower temps is what the Woodstock Keystone is all about. This is the advantage of the cat. You should be able to run a larger load at a lower temp in this stove than you could in a non-cat stove because the cat is burning off the wood gases. Also, all that mass of soapstone acts as a heat buffer. It's a gentler heat.

 

[ddddddden]

You don't need anyone to accompany you to the Woodstock factory. Just show up with the appropriate vehicle. They will load the stove *and* give you a discount. You were talking about the tax credit. . .does not apply to refurbs, but if you can take the credit, a new stove would not cost much more than a refurb, and you could pick out exactly which stove you wanted. . .or you could pick out a slab of stone, and they'll use it to make your stove. If I were you, I'd go ahead and do a recon mission to NH. Then, if you decide to buy, go back to pick up with truck or trailer.

 

[branchburner]

Before you make a decision, you might want to visit a few stores (including the Woodstock factory?) if you haven't already. After looking at a bunch of stoves in person, and then visiting with them again, there's a good chance one will speak to you. Easier to hear a loud, clear voice face to face than online.

 

[Serrinon]

You don't need anyone to accompany you to the Woodstock factory. Just show up with the appropriate vehicle. They will load the stove *and* give you a discount. You were talking about the tax credit. . .does not apply to refurbs, but if you can take the credit, a new stove would not cost much more than a refurb, and you could pick out exactly which stove you wanted. . .or you could pick out a slab of stone, and they'll use it to make your stove. If I were you, I'd go ahead and do a recon mission to NH. Then, if you decide to buy, go back to pick up with truck or trailer.

hehehe, you guys must really love these stoves

Do you think it would fit in a Subaru Impreza?

 

[ddddddden]

It might be too tall to load into an Impreza. . . + they have a notice somewhere, probably on their web site, about not loading stoves into hatchbacks/small wagons for safety reasons. If none of your friends drive a truck/SUV, you could rent a van from U-Haul for $20/day + mileage. . .might end up costing more than having a trailer hitch installed on the Impreza. Maybe rent an SUV from Avis, etc. with free miles. . .anyhow, like Branchburner said, it would be a good idea to get touchy-feely with potential stoves. I'd just jump in the Impreza and go have a look. You might not have anything to haul home. . .maybe you won't like what you see, or maybe you will order a custom color, which would probably take a few weeks to build. Woodstock love? I haven't actually burned in mine yet, so I suppose I love the people as much as the product at this point. I bought based on positive feedback here and several refreshingly pleasant phone experiences with the co. I would be all over the factory if lived where you do.

 

[CTburning]

I would seriously consider getting the Woodstock Fireview. I know I sound biased because I own one but you don't want to mess with a stove every couple of hours. At 1200 sq ft and well insulated you will be able to load the stove every 8-12 hours for much of the heating season. When it is really nasty you can load more frequently and keep the rock at a higher temperature. My friend has a Jotul Oslo-(I believe) and it is a wonderful stove. It heats up faster and cools down faster than a soapstone will though. In my opinion you have the perfect situation for a cat stove. After 12 hours the stove will be 200 degrees with plenty of coals left. I hate to start a fire from scratch so a couple pieces of maple along with some oak and in 20 minutes it's time to engage the cat and pretty much forget about it. Of course all of what I am saying is if you want to burn 24/7. If you want to start a couple of fires every weekend then you are better with a small steel or cast iron stove. There are two types of woodburners. Those that do it because they love it and those that are cheap. I am both. You should figure out what you are most likely to be before you buy a stove. The reason being is that if you are just trying to save money and this is a chore then you want to be "playing" with the stove as little as possible. That way you are most likely to stick with it.

A couple points if you go with Woodstock. Rent a pickup or Suv from enterprise, avis etc and make sure you get unlimited miles are at least enough to get you there and back, example 150/day. Right now the pick up special at Woodstock is $100 off so in reality you are saving $200. Do the math. If it is going to cost you more in gas then have it shipped to a local business. You can hire someone (plural) to install it for a couple hundred as stairs are the only real obstacle. Remember installation is part of the tax credit.

I love my Fireview but it is too small for my home and for the amount of time I am away. I can say that and still recc the stove as I might end up buying a second one. On the weekends I am home more and can keep the temps up in my leaky 1600 sqft ranch. Good luck with your choice.

 

[KB007]

If yuo really want the woodstock - go for it. Nothing worse than looking at somethng for the next 20 years going "damm, I really wanted the blonde!"

Seriously, there's got to be a way - rent a truck, get some buddies - you'll figure it out. Is there any way to take the stone panels out to help lifting?

You could probably even find a small local mover who would move it for you fairly cheap. Don't let the fact that you don't know exactly how you're going to do it stop you from doing it.

I remember when my hot rod was in the shop just before I had to move house 500 miles. I was getting all stressed out that the car wasn't running and I wouldn't be able to drive it and how in god's name was I going to get it to the new house and holy crap what was I gonna do??????? Turned out I asked a couple of ppl and they suggested getting it trailered and it only cost me a couple of hundred bucks.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Before lifting our stove onto the hearth, we did remove the top lid (a very heavy thing), the firebox door and the firebrick. Removing the top lid is pretty quick and easy as all you have to do is open the lid (heavy) and lift it. That alone removes a lot of weight.

I can't give you the exact measurements of the crate (Fireview stove) but would guess 30" plus on height. You could ask that question from the Woodstock company and get the exact measurements.

No doubt Woodstock would advise against hauling that stove in a hatchback or suburban type vehicle is safety. If you were involved in an accident there is the possibility that heavy beast could come forward and crushing whoever is sitting in front of it. That is why a truck or trailer is advised.

And yes, Woodstock stove owners are very high on these stoves. I've heated with wood over 50 years now and can say without hesitation this is the best stove I've ever used or seen. I am simply amazed how clean this stove burns and how efficient it is. I love not having to clean the chimney 2, 3 or 4 times per year and I love the fact that I now burn only half the amount of wood we used to and stay a lot warmer too. Finally, I am amazed with this company. They do indeed run their business like the old time businesses used to.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I love my ________ but it is too small for my home and for the amount of time I am away.

This is a recurring theme here, myself included. I'm not sure I remember any my stove burns too long and puts out too much heat threads in January.

 

[VTHC]

Before you make a decision, you might want to visit a few stores (including the Woodstock factory?) if you haven't already. After looking at a bunch of stoves in person, and then visiting with them again, there's a good chance one will speak to you. Easier to hear a loud, clear voice face to face than online.

Highly recommended! Definitely visit the stove shops before making a decision (and/or the Woodstock factory)! As KB007 stated above, you will be looking at this for the next 20 years, so you better pick one that you won't regret... And, sometimes the shops have deals going on certain models that will sway you one way or another.

Depending on where you live in N. Vermont i would certainly lend a hand helping you move the stove if you need it! (as long as it's not a soapstone beast ).

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts:

If you are adamant about getting a Jotul I would highly suggest going with the Castine . . . being a believer in the mantra "bigger is better" when it comes to woodstoves. While there is such a thing as going too big it seems that a far worse problem is to have an under-sized woodstove that is being pushed to the limit all the time to try to keep the house warm . . . which of course can risk damaging the stove. With a stove that is slightly larger you can always build a small fire in the large firebox . . . but attempting to build a larger fire in the smaller stove's already-packed firebox is impossible unless said stove is in actuality a TARDIS. Going too large however will result in either having fires that produce too much heat for the home or burning inefficiently. In terms of square footage ratings by the stove manufacturers you need to take the specs with a grain of salt . . . realizing that these figures are devised from lab tests that do not take into account winds, insulation in a home, a home's floor plan, etc. As mentioned, the stove you mentioned might do the job . . . but if you have a stove slightly larger than what you think you need you know the stove will do the job even when the temps dip below the donut for a week or so . . . plus a larger firebox = longer burns.

One word: Woodstock. I am perhaps in the minority. I do not care for the look of these stoves . . . they are too fancy for me. However, I must admit that I constantly find myself going to the website and looking at the pictures since Woodstock is legendary here for their quality products and excellent customer service. If you like the looks of this stove and can pick up a decent refurbished one at your price point and you're close enough to pick it up I would do so . . . even if if meant borrowing a truck or renting a truck for a day . . . and of course supplying a few good buddies with pizza and beer in exchange for some heavy lifting. Honestly, providing you like the look, I think a Woodstock would be perfect for your needs . . . but I also think you will find yourself wanting to burn 24/7 as you will get longer burns and will learn to love the woodheat.

The second word of the day: Wood. You say you have some wood. Wood is good. More wood is better. At this point getting seasoned wood yourself but scrounging or cutting in a woodlot is not likely . . . if you're hoping to burn the wood this year. Buying seasoned wood from a dealer at this point would be a crap shoot. In either case, I can almost guarantee you that you will want to burn more wood . . . burning wood is an addiction.

Burning cleanly . . . you can burn partial loads in any woodstove effectively and efficiently . . . and you can burn full loads . . . it comes down to three things. 1) First and most important: seasoned wood. Many folks define seasoned wood as 22-25% or so moisture and they use moisture meters. I'm a low-tech sort of guy . . . I simply cut and split my wood 1-2 years before using it. 2) Know your stove and burn at the appropriate temps. I find thermometers help me know when the fire is too cool . . . and when it's too hot. You burn too hot and you can over-fire the stove, damage the flue or ignite any creosote build up in your chimney. Burn too cool and you will produce creosote. Just looking at a fire and being able to tell the difference between too cool and too hot can be challenging. 3) Finally . . . you need to inspect and clean your chimney. I tend to inspect and clean my chimney every month during burning . . . some folks only do so once or twice a season. I always figure it's better to err on the side of caution.

 

[Serrinon]

Thank you everyone. Especially VTHC for the generous offer to help with the stove. I'm going to see a few shops today and try to make a decision!

 

[KB007]

That's the best part of buying anything, the checking it out and doing the touchy feely part

 

[leeave96]

Good luck with your choice. We started out looking at a used, then new Vermont Castings, PE Alderlea, Quadrafire Isle Royle and Englander. We did not want a cat stove. Every bit of research pointed us to a different stove model/manufacturer and ultimately ended-up with a Woodstock Keystone. I haven't installed it yet as I am working through a variety of options/remodel on my house, but the stove is really easy on the eyes, large window and just ozzes with quality. It is heavy, but my brother and I moved it around with a large dolly into my basement. When I get my install finished, we'll truck it upstairs. Did I mention it was heavy? The good news is that you only need to move it one time to your finished installation. If I were in your neck of the woods, I'd visit them. Refurbished or new (with tax credit), you will get much more stove for the $$$'s this year. Oh, the cat - turnes out to be a no-brainer to operate, gives you a VERY clean burn and the ability to have a clean burn at lower damper settings too. Regardless of the stove you buy, the Woodstock website has a TON of info about stoves, their operation, cats and installation.

Good luck!
Bill

 

[chase100]

If you dont want to bother with cord wood and the work, you should find a hestis pellet stove. well worth the money in my eye. pretty user friendly turn it on and walk away. comes with the cleaning but what kind of stoves dont? pellet,chord or any kind.

 

[WidowMaker]

May haps a used Blaze King Princees or a LopI Endeavor would be my choice...