Wood stove for a 400-square-foot cabin?

[CabinCrazy]

Hello!
I'm new to the forum, and so glad I found y'all!
I'm building a 400-square-foot cordwood cabin and need to pick out a wood stove. In case you've never heard of cordwood construction, it's where you build a frame, such as timber frame, then infill with short log ends held together with mortar. The finished walls look a bit like stacked firewood. Wall thickness can vary from 8 inches to 26 inches thick. My walls will be 12 inches (the mortar part), with 14 inch log ends for infill.
The cabin will have a shed-style roof that is 14 feet at the front (high) end and 8 feet high at the back (low) end. It will also have six windows and front and back doors, the glass kind.
Okay, my first question is: I'm leaning toward the Englander 13-NC model for my cabin. Would that be a mistake, given how small my cabin is? I have no problem keeping a window or door cracked to keep it from getting too toasty.
My second question is: It will be going in a corner, between an electric range and the back wall of the cabin. It will be positioned at an angle in the corner. The distance from the electric range to that back wall will be 40 inches. Do you think that would work with the clearances for the 13-NC? I would be fine with putting up wall protection all around the wood stove.
Third and final question: Any other suggestions for other wood stoves I might investigate? I'd like to be able to use at least 16" logs and I prefer steel over cast iron and American-made over non-American-made. Or Canadian!
Here's my floor plan to give you a visual.
Thanking you all in advance!
—CabinCrazy

 

[begreen]

The 13NC will get the job done and then some. It will be overkill on milder days above freezing but you can build smaller fires and reload more frequently or open a window. It will need the factory side shields option and double-wall stove pipe connecting to the chimney to reduce corner clearances to 8". Also note the fairly stiff R=2.0 hearth requirement. Maybe also look at the True North TN20 which has tighter corner clearances and easier hearth requirements. There are also some alternatives like the Morso 2B, Jotul F602, Hampton H200 that might be interesting to consider.

The heat is going to pocket up at the peak of the 14' wall. That is the nature of this style cabin, so having a bit more power will help. Will the floor be slab or crawlspace?

 

[xman23]

Cabinman, I wonder how you decided on this construction method? The design sounds like it has a lot of challenges at every turn. Extremely energy efficient, maintenance free designs are easy to do with modern construction methods.

As to the stove, look at the stove manuals for clearances. Also, don't forget to check what the hearth construction needs to be.

 

[CabinCrazy]

The 13NC will get the job done and then some. It will be overkill on milder days above freezing but you can build smaller fires and reload more frequently or open a window. It will need the factory side shields option and double-wall stove pipe connecting to the chimney to reduce corner clearances to 8". Also note the fairly stiff R=2.0 hearth requirement. Maybe also look at the True North TN20 which has tighter corner clearances and easier hearth requirements. There are also some alternatives like the Morso 2B, Jotul F602, Hampton H200 that might be interesting to consider.

The heat is going to pocket up at the peak of the 14' wall. That is the nature of this style cabin, so having a bit more power will help. Will the floor be slab or crawlspace?

Thank you for the information! So even if I put up wall protection, I will need the side shields and double-wall stove pipe? I will definitely look into the models you mention. My cabin has a thickened-edge monoslab foundation. I will be putting a wooden floor on top of it, over a wooden subfloor.

 

[CabinCrazy]

Cabinman, I wonder how you decided on this construction method? The design sounds like it has a lot of challenges at every turn. Extremely energy efficient, maintenance free designs are easy to do with modern construction methods.

As to the stove, look at the stove manuals for clearances. Also, don't forget to check what the hearth construction needs to be.

Thank you for responding! I will check out the stove manuals and hearth construction. You are absolutely right about the challenges, but I really love the look of cordwood construction and wanted to be able to build part of it myself. I may change my mind about that after a few weekends of mudding up the walls, but we'll see! I know I have seen a lot of people saying online that they are very glad that they built their cordwood cabin, but that they would never do one again! I'm sure I'll be in that camp, but I want the experience.

 

[begreen]

My cabin has a thickened-edge monoslab foundation. I will be putting a wooden floor on top of it, over a wooden subfloor.

The manual will provide guidance for clearances and hearth requirements. With a combustible floor the stove will need hearth protection per the stove manual. You won't need wall protection if the stove's clearance requirements are low. There's no harm in adding it for extra protection, but no clearance reduction below 12"" allowed with the wallshield unless the stove has been tested with the wall shield and tested clearances for the wall shield are listed in the manual. This is why I suggested the TN20, it has a close corner clearance requirement of 3" with double-wall connector pipe. It also has a lower required total flue length than many stoves which will be important with the chimney exiting directly through the roof 8' above the stove.

 

[Rearscreen]

As per construction I guess if you ran out of firewood more would be right at your fingertips.

 

[begreen]

I've seen some shots of really nice cordwood houses. My concern was air leakage due to the wood checking, but they must have solved that because some have been up for a long time. Here is a lodge and a cute little house.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Will the cabin be heated all the time, or will you be coming to a cold cabin periodically and expecting it to heat up from ambient temp somewhat quickly?


I have a 16x25 ft cabin in a very exposed part of the Adirondacks. I've had 2 stoves in it. The first was the Century listed below. It was the little stove that could. Once the place was heated up it could hold the temp. It had a short burn time though. I replaced it with the Pacific Energy also listed below. This is a medium sized stove and allows for a much faster warm up, and overnight burn times. But, it can cook you out of the place if you aren't careful.

How you plan to use the cabin will make a big difference on the stove you choose. You may want to look at cat stoves if you'll be keeping the place warm all the time.

 

[CabinCrazy]

The 13NC will get the job done and then some. It will be overkill on milder days above freezing but you can build smaller fires and reload more frequently or open a window. It will need the factory side shields option and double-wall stove pipe connecting to the chimney to reduce corner clearances to 8". Also note the fairly stiff R=2.0 hearth requirement. Maybe also look at the True North TN20 which has tighter corner clearances and easier hearth requirements. There are also some alternatives like the Morso 2B, Jotul F602, Hampton H200 that might be interesting to consider.

The heat is going to pocket up at the peak of the 14' wall. That is the nature of this style cabin, so having a bit more power will help. Will the floor be slab or crawlspace?

Begreen,
Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the Morso 2B! I was leaning toward a steel stove because they heat up more quickly, but upon further research, I think the Morso 2B might be a better choice since cast iron retains the heat longer. The north/south configuration will probably be a better fit for the corner I'm putting it in, too. Thanks, again!

 

[CabinCrazy]

The manual will provide guidance for clearances and hearth requirements. With a combustible floor the stove will need hearth protection per the stove manual. You won't need wall protection if the stove's clearance requirements are low. There's no harm in adding it for extra protection, but no clearance reduction below 12"" allowed with the wallshield unless the stove has been tested with the wall shield and tested clearances for the wall shield are listed in the manual. This is why I suggested the TN20, it has a close corner clearance requirement of 3" with double-wall connector pipe. It also has a lower required total flue length than many stoves which will be important with the chimney exiting directly through the roof 8' above the stove.

More great information! Thank you!

 

[CabinCrazy]

As per construction I guess if you ran out of firewood more would be right at your fingertips.

Ha! I don't think it will come to that! Plus, how to get the cordwood out of the mortar matrix? Fortunately, we have plenty of cheap firewood here in Montana.

 

[CabinCrazy]

I've seen some shots of really nice cordwood houses. My concern was air leakage due to the wood checking, but they must have solved that because some have been up for a long time. Here is a lodge and a cute little house.
View attachment 224998 View attachment 224997

Begreen,
Those are gorgeous examples! Thanks for sharing. If you go to Pinterest and search for "cordwood cabin," they have more examples along those lines. You're right about the air leakage. You have to be sure to build your walls with log ends that have been dried to a minimum 12 percent moisture content. That helps a lot. I started debarking my cordwood last spring to help it dry out faster. I have a couple more cords of Douglas fir to debark, but I think it's already pretty dry and will definitely be ready by midsummer. Also, it helps to use split log ends instead of round ones. Mine will be all splits. Even then, there can be some shrinkage and air infiltration, but you just have to expect this and be ready to seal up any gaps with more mortar or Permachink when the time comes. If you're interested, you might check out the daycreek.com website and Richard Flatau's website: cordwoodconstruction.org. It's a cool construction method, but very labor intensive and definitely not for everyone!

 

[CabinCrazy]

Will the cabin be heated all the time, or will you be coming to a cold cabin periodically and expecting it to heat up from ambient temp somewhat quickly?


I have a 16x25 ft cabin in a very exposed part of the Adirondacks. I've had 2 stoves in it. The first was the Century listed below. It was the little stove that could. Once the place was heated up it could hold the temp. It had a short burn time though. I replaced it with the Pacific Energy also listed below. This is a medium sized stove and allows for a much faster warm up, and overnight burn times. But, it can cook you out of the place if you aren't careful.

How you plan to use the cabin will make a big difference on the stove you choose. You may want to look at cat stoves if you'll be keeping the place warm all the time.

Thanks for the response, EatenByLimestone! It will be a recreational cabin, and we will be using it one to three weekends a month. For the winter months, we will be keeping it at about 50 degrees to keep the pipes from freezing (with either an electric or direct vent propane heater, not sure which yet). So we won't be heating it from below-freezing temperatures. And it won't be crucial to have an overnight burn, although embers in the morning are always nice. I'm tempted to get a larger stove than I really need, just to have the larger fire to look at, but I think with my tiny cabin, I need to show restraint and go with a small stove. Thanks to Begreen's input, I'm seriously considering the Morso 2B. Thanks!

 

[jotul8e2]

Begreen,
Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the Morso 2B! I was leaning toward a steel stove because they heat up more quickly, but upon further research, I think the Morso 2B might be a better choice since cast iron retains the heat longer. The north/south configuration will probably be a better fit for the corner I'm putting it in, too. Thanks, again!

The Morso 2B is a very nice little stove, quite similar to the equally venerable Jotul F 602. And you are quite correct that they fit well into a corner. It should be an excellent choice.

However, I discount the relative time to heat up/cool down in the choice of steel vs. cast iron. I have both, currently run both, and find the differences insignificant. Steel cools off quickly, to be sure. Cast iron will retain heat perhaps twice as long. But "quickly" multiplied by two is ... still not very long. This is especially true of such a small stove - there simply is not enough mass to store heat very long no matter the material.

A more significant issue might be the difference in heat transfer. Steel transfers heat to unprotected skin at a rate familiar to emergency room personnel everywhere. Cast iron will still burn but you stand a much better chance of avoiding a serious burn from a brief contact. I have conducted many unintentional experiments on this and have the data to support my thesis. Most have healed now, thank you. This difference alone would sway my choice of stove for such a small space.

 

[CabinCrazy]

The Morso 2B is a very nice little stove, quite similar to the equally venerable Jotul F 602. And you are quite correct that they fit well into a corner. It should be an excellent choice.

However, I discount the relative time to heat up/cool down in the choice of steel vs. cast iron. I have both, currently run both, and find the differences insignificant. Steel cools off quickly, to be sure. Cast iron will retain heat perhaps twice as long. But "quickly" multiplied by two is ... still not very long. This is especially true of such a small stove - there simply is not enough mass to store heat very long no matter the material.

A more significant issue might be the difference in heat transfer. Steel transfers heat to unprotected skin at a rate familiar to emergency room personnel everywhere. Cast iron will still burn but you stand a much better chance of avoiding a serious burn from a brief contact. I have conducted many unintentional experiments on this and have the data to support my thesis. Most have healed now, thank you. This difference alone would sway my choice of stove for such a small space.

Oh, no! I'm sorry to hear about your "unintentional experiments"! I never even considered the heat transfer factor. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I like the cast iron sleeve that my steel stove sits in. The stove can be roaring and the heat feels more gentle.

With propane, be sure that a truck can get close enough to fill it with winter snow and ice. Otherwise you need to do some calculations to make sure you have enough tank to last all winter.

 

[CabinCrazy]

I like the cast iron sleeve that my steel stove sits in. The stove can be roaring and the heat feels more gentle.

With propane, be sure that a truck can get close enough to fill it with winter snow and ice. Otherwise you need to do some calculations to make sure you have enough tank to last all winter.

Thanks for the reminder on the propane truck! At our previous cabin, we really had to plan ahead because at 6,000 feet elevation and a very steep mountain road, the propane trucks couldn't reach our cabin without fear of hurtling off the side of the cliff to a fiery death. Now we're on the valley floor, but still. Snow gets deep.
About the "roaring fire" and "more gentle heat," I have certainly found kindred spirits here in this forum! It's great how much everyone here seems to appreciate the indescribably wonderful "hygge" (Danish word for "coziness") of a wood stove fire.

 

[begreen]

If the cabin is only used occasionally in winter, all the wood mass, the floor, the furniture, everything will need to be brought up to temperature before the room temperature starts to stabilize and be comfortable. That requires extra horsepower, especially if this is expected to happen over a weekend. It's why I suggested the TN20 with the closer corner clearances but a larger firebox. For short heat (48 hrs) you are not going to care about the soft heat. You're going to want serious heat, now. Otherwise it may take till Sunday night before inside temps start to stabilize. Once the place has finally warmed up, then soft heat may be appreciated, but by then you may be packing up and getting ready to go home.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I have been able to get my cabin to temp really quickly by using multiple heat sources. I walk in and light the stove, and as the fire gets going, I light a sunflower heater on a propane tank, about 15k btu infrared, and a couple electric space heaters. That'll get my front room, 12x16, up in the 60s in just less than an hour from single digits. I could also light the cooking stove I guess, that would be an additional source of heat in there, and it would be significant, but I haven't had to do that.

 

[CabinCrazy]

If the cabin is only used occasionally in winter, all the wood mass, the floor, the furniture, everything will need to be brought up to temperature before the room temperature starts to stabilize and be comfortable. That requires extra horsepower, especially if this is expected to happen over a weekend. It's why I suggested the TN20 with the closer corner clearances but a larger firebox. For short heat (48 hrs) you are not going to care about the soft heat. You're going to want serious heat, now. Otherwise it may take till Sunday night before inside temps start to stabilize. Once the place has finally warmed up, then soft heat may be appreciated, but by then you may be packing up and getting ready to go home.

Hi Begreen! I had changed my mind about the Morso 2B after seeing one in person and seeing how small the viewing area is. I was all but ready to pull the trigger and go for the Jotul F 100 QT CF, but after taking another look at the TN20 you recommended, now THAT is the stove I want, due to the bigger firebox. I tried googling it and found a website, but the website is weird. There is no phone contact information on the website or on the catalog I downloaded. I hope it's an inactive website and not a scam one! When I tried to do a dealer search on this website, nothing happened. Are they now a part of Pacific Energy? When I went to the Pacific Energy website, I didn't see the TN20. We do have a Pacific Energy dealer in town. I guess I could ask there. I hope this stove is not discontinued. Do you have any information on the status of the company or the TN20? Thank you!

Later that day . . . Success! The Pacific Energy dealer in town can order me a TN20. They're on back order, so there is a 6- to 8-week wait (I guess that's a good sign), but the delay is not a problem, so I think this will be the stove for me. Thanks, Begreen, and everyone else who responded to my post!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Pacific Energy is alive and well. Take a look at the T4 while you're at the dealership. Since you're not heating from a cold temp, the smaller stove would treat you right. The T5 would be the same size as the True North.

When researching stoves, the difference in baffles, and looks, made the choice for me.

 

[begreen]

Yes, the equivalent sized firebox of the TN20 in PE's mainline stoves would be the Super 27. The T5 has the same firebox as the Super 27, but with the cast iron jacket. The next size down are the Vista and the Alderlea T4.

 

[CabinCrazy]

Pacific Energy is alive and well. Take a look at the T4 while you're at the dealership. Since you're not heating from a cold temp, the smaller stove would treat you right. The T5 would be the same size as the True North.

When researching stoves, the difference in baffles, and looks, made the choice for me.

I will check them out! Thanks, EatenByLimestone!

 

[CabinCrazy]

Yes, the equivalent sized firebox of the TN20 in PE's mainline stoves would be the Super 27. The T5 has the same firebox as the Super 27, but with the cast iron jacket. The next size down are the Vista and the Alderlea T4.

Thanks for the information, Begreen!