Wood stove for supplemental basement heat.

[bcr]

Hey everybody, first time poster here.

We have a four bedroom cape in southern NH, and we heat with propane, which is very costly. In my home growing up we heated with wood almost exclusively until I was in high school, so I had a lot of experience with firewood and starting fires, but I've never bought or even owned a woodstove.

We have a vacant flue in our chimney in the basement, and I've always planned to put in a wood stove for an emergency backup heater and to supplement the propane to help reduce our expenses in the winter. We live on ~1.5 wooded acres so I can get some firewood and we wouldn't be heating with it exclusively, but I might still buy a cord or two per year if we use it like I anticipate.

I was planning to buy an old used stove since we wouldn't be using it all the time. For instance, right now I have an opportunity to get a Fisher Baby Bear for $250 that looks to be in good shape, although I haven't had a chance to see it in person yet. But then today a friend of mine was saying that maybe I should consider getting a newer stove that would be more efficient, and might still save quite a bit in the long run even if it costs more up front.

So what should I be considering and what are the real trade offs for an older, simple stove versus something else? I don't care what it looks like because it will be in our unfinished basement but I would prefer something that's higher and deeper rather than wide. I saw a Lange 6302A that I liked a lot but it's not available now.

We have a poured concrete foundation and I'm planning to do spray foam insulation around the top. The living area is about 1800 sq feet in two stories.

 

[Woody Stover]

Yeah, I would go for a modern, more efficient stove, like 10-15 years old. You can find 'em cheap, but you'll have to check for signs of overfire damage. With a modern EPA stove, your wood will go further and your neighbors will appreciate you not smoking them out all day long with the old smoke-blower stove. The new stoves can also be fairly simple, if you get a non-catalytic stove.
Work your woodlot now, grabbing anything dead-standing <8" diameter with the bark falling off. That will already be pretty dry.
Then find some soft Maple being taken down at a neighbor's, of by people at work, school or church. Put the word out and you'll find wood that will dry fast. Anything lightweight will dry quickly...Sweetgum, Black Cherry, whatever.
Avoid Oak for the time being, and split and stack what you get of White Ash, Hickory, hard (Sugar) Maple etc. for a couple years from now.
An unfinished basement will suck out about 1/3 of the heat produced. The earthworms will like it though.

 

[WoodBurnerInWI]

I too would highly recommend going with a modern EPA stove just to ward off any potential troubles that an older non EPA stove could give you. The new 2020 approved EPA stoves can be catalytic or non catalytic and many of them give solid burn times.

I'm currently using a stove from the Woodstock Soapstone Co and I absolutely love it!! Size wise, most of their stoves would work for your heating area requirements and because they are all catalytic (or hybrid of cat and non cat technology) they get suburb burn times. As an added aesthetic bonus, my stove (the Ideal Steel) can be made with custom colors, andirons and top and side metal artwork. Even if you didn't get one with the metal artwork the soapstone on their stoves is very nice looking. Price would be a factor to consider going with a company like Woodstock, although they're always having good sales many which can include free or darn near free shipping. Since you are from NH, you may be able to make the drive to Lebanon and you can schedule to pick it up right at their factory. Otherwise their stoves are shipped by a freight carrier and you have to pick it up at a depot. Then once you get the stove home you must get it inside or hire people to get it inside for you. That is literally one of the only negative things I can say about Woodstock is that they have to ship their stoves to a freight depot. You also will not find them in dealerships or stores. But for the amazing quality product you get and getting it factory direct it is hard to beat.

For a more value stove that doesn't have all the fancy tech associated with it I would recommend Englanders 30-NC stove, which can be found at Home Depot and is also sold under the model numbers 50-SNC30 and 50-TNC30.

(broken link removed)

It's a non cat stove that's all steel with a nice square firebox, good for N/S loading. It's got a simple air control and can get 8 plus hr burn times. No options for fancy artwork or colors, it's a basic stove and is priced well.

 

[Woody Stover]

Yep, you can go new in a value stove like Englander or Drolet; Then you don't have all the legwork and uncertainty involved in buying a used stove.
That said, you can find a more expensive stove brand, cheap, by buying used. Regency, Lopi, Buck, etc. Look for overfire damage like warped parts and bleached-out paint above the brick line. Ask the seller how to operate the stove, and how long they have been burning wood..it should give you an idea of whether they knew what they were doing, and if they operated the stove prudently. Or if they were inexperienced, maybe they burned wet wood, and their stove never got very hot.

 

[begreen]

Is there any possibility of heating from the main floor where the heat is needed? Basement heating from an uninsulated basement can be costly. About a third of the wood burned goes to heat mother nature. Do this with an old stove and about every other log will either be heating the flue or the earth surrounding the basement and not the house.

That said, check the draft at the wall thimble. Is it drawing well? Basement installs can be up against negative pressure in some cases, so it's good to check.

What is the ID of the clay liner in the chimney? Has it been inspected to make sure it is in good condition?

 

[bcr]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I should have mentioned I do have a company coming to inspect the chimney and liner. The house was built in '79.

 

[coaly]

First, it would take a lot more heat than a Baby Bear can produce..
You’re into a Papa Bear size, and would work with a larger 8 x 8 chimney if it not lined with an insulated liner to match the 6 inch outlet size of the stove. The stove would greatly benefit from a lined chimney the correct size, but would physically work with 8. Does the vacant flue have a 6 inch liner? That is going to be needed with most newer stoves.
A basement chimney is going to be tall and require more heat to make the stove work, the smaller the stove the more critical the chimney size becomes. You need to leave enough heat up to stay above 250*f. to the top whiles smoke is present. Below this critical temp creosote can form rapidly. That is the object burning any stove, so the more efficient the chimney, the more efficient the stove becomes. With a smaller stove so much is left up the stack, the stove no longer has
Enough heat to radiate into the area being heated.
The Baby Bear was rated to heat up to 1000 square feet in Seattle Washington with common building materials at the time. Mama was rated at 1500 sq feet and Papa 2000. They will go through more wood than a newer stove, but they will get hotter if more instant heat is required. They will burn less than optimum wood, and a baffle of some sort should be added to increase heat output and reduce smoke.

 

[Ignem]

I think your friend is giving you solid advice. I would never go back to a non-EPA stove. I just don’t want to have to get more wood than is necessary.

We live in a 3600 sqft home and heat from the basement. We have three stories (starting from the basement) and the heat doesn’t really make it up to the third level. We have a finished basement with R-10 on the basement walls and exposed ceilings going up to hardwood on the first floor. There’s about a 5 degree heat loss traveling through the floor (e.g. if the temp of the subfloor from the basement is 75 degrees then the floor temp above it will be 70 degrees). As far as heating the house, it keeps up with Kentucky winters but if it gets below 15 degrees we have to supplement with an upstairs LP fireplace every now and then. We do school in the basement, so we spend a lot of time down there.

I say all that to say that I’d be concerned about three strikes that you might have against you: (1) it sounds like the basement walls are unfinished (bare concrete) and therefore uninsulated (it will be hard to overcome that heat loss and have the heat go up, (2) your ceiling in the basement may be insulated or have drywall/drop ceiling (yet again preventing the transfer of heat), and (3) you won’t get the best benefit of heating where you spend your time (I’m assuming you don’t hang out in the unfinished basement).

Plus, I imagine that a NH winter is more demanding than a Kentucky winter. A basement setup works well for us but we don’t have those three factors working against us.

 

[heavy hammer]

I have a Kuma sequoia in my basement, I have 2 stoves one on the main floor. The Kuma does provide a lot of heat and can keep the house warm if the temps are above 30-35 degrees. My basement is finished and insulated as well. It does keep the floors nice and warm. As others have said make sure your setup is good to go insulate your walls since block walls will suck up that heat. But you will like it.

 

[peakbagger]

My comments/observations. First a bit of diversion. Get an energy audit through your local utility. With Eversource, they will pay for 50% of the upgrades up to several thousands dollars (not sure of the current limits).I think the other utilities have a similar deal. Its likely they will pay to spray foam the sills. If the truck and contractor is there you can usually negotiate in advance to have them spray additional areas of the walls. The first four feet from the sill down makes the biggest difference. The energy audit is going to reduce your heating bills by typically 20%. There are also opportunities for hot water savings depending on what you use for hot water. If you ever need a dehumidifier in the basement, a heat pump hot water heater is a real nice option as you get "free" dehumidification. If you need air conditioning, the cold climate mini split heat pumps are a real nice fit in southern NH for 80% of your heat and is the usually the cheapest way to heat and far more efficient than window units and many standard heat pump systems.

Now onto wood

The #1 issue with new wood burners by far is wood that is not dry enough. Unless you find a firewood supplier with a kiln (very rare) ,if you buy wood no matter what the seller says assume its not dry enough. If you dry it yourself there is learning curve and plan on two years or drying from when its split to when it goes in the stove.

The first point reinforces this next point, modern EPA stoves either new or a few years old need dry wood, if they do not get dry wood they can be a major PITA. Many folks give up after getting smoked out a few times and having to babysit the stove to keep it burning. Older stoves like the Fishers will burn wetter wood. The big trade off is creosote. If you have an interior chimney that exits near the ridgepole you have a very tall stack with stove in the basement. You potentially will have less of an issue with creosote as the heat loss in the stack is lower compared to an exterior chimney. If you have a chimney on the end of the house (usually in tandem with a fireplace) then creosote is more of an issue.

I am now going to make a controversial comment and suggest start out with a smaller older stove. Its going to take a few years to decide if you want to make a major commitment to burning wood. Its easier to learn with a small stove and with a small stove you can burn it hot. This means you will not get all night burns but a hot burn (within the limits of the stove) is going to produce less creosote. Sure you may not be able to heat the entire house to T shirt temps during a power outage but you will be able to keep it from freezing up and you will have a warm spot to retreat to. After a few years if you decide you want to do wood, you can usually sell a small stove stove for what you paid for it and you can keep an eye out for good deals on newer stoves. They pop up all the time as for many folks they just do not want the delayed gratification of waiting two years for really dry wood. They try to burn wet wood and after smoking out the house multiple times, the stove goes up for sale.

If you do go with an older stove, it should have rating plate on it. There were a couple of independent testing firms that rated stoves and there should be tag on the back of the stove. Many insurance companies will not allow an unrated stoves to be installed. BTW talk your agent first, some insurance companies are stove friendly some are very unfriendly.

The reality of a cape home is the second floor is going to be a bear to get any heat up into it with a basement stove unless you start cutting in a lot of ducts. I would suggest that you size the stove to first floor area and boost it 30 to 50% due to the basement location of the stove. If you insulate the basement walls floor to sills I would go on the low side.