woodstock Keystone opinions

[trucha]

I am looking at buying a house that comes with a brand new, never been fired Woodstock Keystone stove. I am wondering if anyone has any opinions about these stoves. One thing I can't quite figure out is if it has a cat converter or the baffling system. How well does the cat work and does it need maintenance. I remember talking to my local woodstove salesman(who doesn't sell these stoves) who said that the cat systems are all old technology and the new baffleing systems are much cleaner and better. Is this true?
Things to know: the house is about 2000 sq ft. with the stove located between the kitchen/living room and right near the stairs.
I burn (somewhat) well seasoned soft woods (doug fir, lodgepole)

 

[Todd]

I've heard the same thing from wood stove dealers around here. Most don't have a clue and are just trying to make a sale. Woodstocks are great stoves. Long clean burns and very easy maintenance. Never heard a bad thing about them. Check out the wood stove ratings section on this site, lots of happy Woodstock owners. Also use the forum search box on the upper left of your screen and type in "Keystone" for more info.

 

[Highbeam]

Ha! Of course your dealer said that. He can't sell woodstocks as they are a direct seller. So if he tells you they are great then you will not likely buy anything from him.

If I were you, I would happily give that woodstock a try. It's already in place and paid for and people seem to love them. That said, the stove is not rated to heat 2000 SF of anything. The biggest stove that Woodstock makes is only rated for 1600 SF. So be warned that this woodstove may not be enough and be sure that you have an additional heat source.

All woodstocks have catalytic converters. They are not a baffled aka non-catalytic design. I own a hearthstone which is also soapstone but is of the non-cat design and I have grown quite fond of soapstone.

Visit their website and download the owner's manual since there are a few very important operating procedures to be followed with your woodstock.

 

[jpl1nh]

Any other questions? Oh yeah, Highbeam's right, they only make cats and while we use our Keystone to heat up to 1600', when it's really cold (like -10 real or windchill temps or below) we can shut off about 700' of that and then it works great for the other 900'. If you really want to heat 2000' in a Montanna winter with just the Keystone, it just ain't gonna do it though it would probably reduce your fossil fuel bill by about 75 to 80%, maybe better depending on layout, insulation, solar gain, etc.

 

[rob bennett]

jp, how long are your usual working burn times when its not "really cold"? I'm just curious how often you need to reload your stove.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

The only negative I've ever heard on the Keystone is that you won't get a very long burn time because it is so small.

As for the cat. design, before we purchased our stove, we were against the cats as we had heard bad things and we also thought perhaps they were outdated. Long story short, we ended up with a cat stove....and absolutely love it! Also, with the cat. the stove actually does burn cleaner than most stoves.

That poor fellow doesn't know what he is talking about or is just making talk to try to build up his line. In my opinion, when a salesman runs down a competitor, he does not build up his own. What he does is lose my confidence completely.

I'm not certain about the Keystone, but with the Fireview, we lift out the cat. 2 or 3 times per burning season and use an old paint brush to brush the fly ash away. We also brush around where the cat sits before replacing it. This is a huge undertaking, or some would have you believe. I can do all of this in less than 2 minutes and could do it in a minute if pressed. My wife takes more like 3 or 4 minutes to do all of it. So, no, it is not a big problem.

Do not be afraid to call Woodstock because those folks will help you even though you did not purchase the stove from them. You might even be able to download the manual for your stove.

 

[trucha]

Thanks for the replies. I do understand that this stove won't come close to heating the house. I wish it had a bigger stove. There is radiant floor heat throughout and the stove is more of an ambiance/energy saver as it is located in the livingroom/kitchen/entry way right at the bottom of the stairs to allow max airflow. It seems like a good set up other than the underpowered stove.

My basic question is more how to the woodstock stoves measure up to other stoves. Do owners like them and more importantly, how do the cat converters work compared to other stoves without them in the maintenance/ longevity category. And is woodstock a good, well made stove with a good warranty etc.

my above comment about the dealer saying that cat stoves were obsolete was based on a conversation I had when I was looking at stoves 3-4 years ago and the dealer had both cat stoves and not cat stoves of the same models. Woodstock wasn't even mentioned. I've just heard that they(cats) are more expensive and more difficult to opperate than non cat stoves.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

How do Woodstock stoves measure up to others? You can do any search here and be amazed as just how good they are. I'd say more than 99% positive. Also, Woodstock has the best warranty in the business. They also will bend over backwards to satisfy a customer. We also were a bit nervous about cat stoves and also about buying direct before we talked to a few of their customers. We were simply amazed.

Woodstock, as you know, is a company that sells direct only. You will not find these stoves in any local showroom. This keeps the company a little smaller than it could be but cuts down on the mass production and the mistakes that come with it. It also keeps the company in contact directly with the purchasers rather than with dealers.

You'll find in some of my posts about how we cut our fuel needs drastically after purchasing our Woodstock Fireview. We've went from a high of 7-7 1/2 full cords (probably an average of 5 1/2-6) down to less than 3 last winter. This is our only source of heat too. It does appear we might go over 3 cords this year, but it is way down from our previous stoves and the bigger plus is that we stay a lot warmer.

As for maintenance, there is very little. The cat needs a little cleaning every so often (perhaps after each cord of wood). This has proved to be a pretty simple thing. The first time was different as we had to remove two shipping bolts before we could get the cat out. Then we lifted the cat out and found very little to clean. We use an old paint brush. I take the cat outdoors and simply brush both sides. It takes me just a couple minutes from start to finish to clean the cat, so this is not a worry.

Another beautiful thing about our stove is how clean it burns. When we installed the stove we also put up a new SS chimney. We burned all last winter and up to now and we have not cleaned the chimney yet. We have knocked just a little soot from it. Maybe a cup full at most. We haven't even had to clean the cap, which is very unusual.

The heat you get from a soapstove stove is definitely different than from a steel or all cast stove. We wondered and even laughed a little at the idea of a "soft heat." Well, we found there is a difference! Sweet!

trucha, I hope I've answered your questions and if you have more, then please feel free to ask. After our fears of buying an expensive stove from a dealer a thousand miles away, we can understand how people feel. But Woodstock is a number 1 company; second to none. (I have no connections to this company other than being a satisfied customer.)

btw, welcome to the forum!

 

[pinewoodburner]

Also, you will have to replace the cat every 4-8 years. It is about $130 from Woodstock or about $80 from the cat manufacture. So it cost you between 10 to 20 dollars a year for the cat and you use less wood than the other stoves, so don't let someone tell you how expensive the cats are.

 

[Bobbin]

We purchased our Woodstock Fireview in December, 1991. We have replaced the combustor at least twice, maybe three times in 17 yrs.. We regularly clean the fly ash out of our's, too. Woodstocks are exceptionally well made, other than changing the combustor we've done nothing to the stove and it performs flawlessly. As a measure of customer satisfaction we purchased a Woodstock Classic to heat the new studio area! My guess would be the Keystone will really keep its assigned area toasty, bet you'll come to love your stove, too!

 

[TheFlame]

We purchased our Woodstock Fireview in December, 1991. We have replaced the combustor at least twice, maybe three times in 17 yrs.. We regularly clean the fly ash out of our's, too. Woodstocks are exceptionally well made, other than changing the combustor we've done nothing to the stove and it performs flawlessly. As a measure of customer satisfaction we purchased a Woodstock Classic to heat the new studio area! My guess would be the Keystone will really keep its assigned area toasty, bet you'll come to love your stove, too!

What color is your Fireview and how is the paint holding up?

 

[Bobbin]

Both the Fireview and the Classic are in the flat black cast iron. Timeless... elegant, "utterly classic". I did freshen up the iron on the Fireviw when we replaced the heat pad with a more formal, raised hearth; about 10 yrs. ago. If you keep it dusted in the "off season" and keep after any ash around the door the paint goes for years with no problem. I'll probably do it again early next fall, might even go after some of the scratches on the top of it, too.

 

[rickw]

I've only had my Fireview for about 6 weeks but I'm very satisfied with it. It's made very well, very solid and heavy. You can ram wood into it without fear of breaking something. And the wood usage is great, I've only burned a little over 1/2 cord in the last 6 weeks. I don't know about cat access with the Keystone; but its probably not too bad - and you only have to clean it a coupla three times a season.

The catalytic system is easy to use, period. I'm sure that finicky, hard to run cat stoves have been made - but not by Woodstock.

If its already there you have nothing to lose by firing it up. Good luck!

 

[jpl1nh]

jp, how long are your usual working burn times when its not "really cold"? I'm just curious how often you need to reload your stove.

LOL, the loaded part of that question is "burn times" I loaded on a hefty bed of coals at 9 am, outside temp of 10. It got up to 23 for a high, when I got home at 6:30 it was 10 again, my house temp had dropped 3 degrees from the AM, and I had a 3" thick bed of coals for my reload. I was only heating the approx 900' that we use all the time but my house is in the shade all day. Considering this stove only has a 1.5' firebox, I think that's pretty impressive. Cleaning the cat is harder than the Fireview. A quick clean involves removing the fire baffle inside the firebox which is held by a slot on the furthest end of the box and a bolt on the door side and then brushing off the "upstream" face of the combustor. A more thorough cleaning requires you remove 4 allen screws that secure the flue collar to the stove, a single bolt holding a heat shield for when the bypass is open and then lift out the combustor. Tha';s about a fifteen minute process. As someone else on this thread said, the engineering and aesthetics of these stoves are "timeless", incredibly well made. They are reliable and perform wonderfully. Plus they look great too.

 

[Kansasplains]

And is woodstock a good, well made stove with a good warranty etc.

Woodstock is the only stove manufacturer that I am aware of that has a complete money back guarantee (for a set time) including shipping. Shipping can run several hundred dollars, so it's no light promise made by Woodstock. I think they know by now how many people would never trade in their Woodstock for another stove. I'm one of them!

 

[trucha]

Thanks for all the replies. I am going to look at the house again today. I will look closer at the stove. Does anyone have any thoughts on burn times using soft woods?

 

[Todd]

I've burned full loads of Pine in my Woodstock and can get 6-8hr burns. Pine isn't that great for coals and burn times but it will keep you warm.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

But the Keystone is a bit of a smaller stove so the times should be shorter. Still, I've heard of some long times with them, depending upon the wood used and the experience to know how to best operate it.

 

[karri0n]

I got the same answer from the Preston Trading Post when I asked about cat models in general(which they don't carry); I asked if they had any cat models and mentioned that I heard they burn longer, and the answer I got was "it's old technology, stoves without a cat burn longer and cleaner". I knew this to be false, but I let it go.

 

[Flatbedford]

I' going to get my Woodstock stove in a couple weeks.My wife likes the looks of the Keystone, but I like the output and burn times of the Fireview. With well seasoned hard wood, what kind of burn time can I expect with a Keystone and it's smaller firebox. I've read up to 10 or 12 hours with the Fireview. How much time to I give up for the looks of the Keystone?

 

[Todd]

Most people claim 8-10 hour burns on average and be able to have enough coals to just throw more wood in and it takes right off again. Not too shabby for a small 1.5 cu ft fire box. Some have even claimed over 12 hours with this stove.

I almost bought one myself cuz I liked the looks better than the Fireview, but talked myself into the bigger stove.

 

[Flatbedford]

Is the stove still making heat after 8-10 hours or are there just enough coals to restart?

 

[Todd]

I don't know about the Keystone because I burn a Fireview, but that soapstone stays warm for a long time and if you have good insulation and a good central install you should be good to go. When it gets real cold I feed the Fireview every 6-10 hours as needed. As far as my house goes, I need more wood when the stove dips below 300 with real cold weather, but on average winter days I can go 12 hours before reloading.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Steve, from a couple I talked to about the Keystone, they said figure on 5-6 hours maximum on that stove. On your question, after 8-10 hours, not much heat, just enough coals to relight. Expect the stove to be down around 200 degrees at that point, which isn't going to heat a room.

With our Fireview, we usually reload around 300 degrees during the winter months because that is when the room begins to feel cool. If you don't mind bigger temperature swings, then you can go a long time between reloads with the Fireview. We just prefer a more even heat.

When we are around to tend the stove, during the daytime we never load it full but instead put in from 2 to 4 pieces; usually 3. This is when we burn the not-so-good wood or knotty stuff that makes a mess of the wood pile or short cut-offs. We save the good stuff for nights or if we are to be away from the house for a long period.

I'll also chip in here that neither the wife nor I liked the Keystone. The Fireview just looks much nicer. Of course, that depends upon the colors chosen. Ours is a blue cast stone and metallic brown (which looks more gray to me than brown). It is one of the best looking stoves we have ever seen.

 

[Slow1]

With our Fireview, we usually reload around 300 degrees during the winter months because that is when the room begins to feel cool. ...

When we are around to tend the stove, during the daytime we never load it full but instead put in from 2 to 4 pieces; usually 3. This is when we burn the not-so-good wood or knotty stuff that makes a mess of the wood pile or short cut-offs. We save the good stuff for nights or if we are to be away from the house for a long period.

So... when you are burning these 2-4 pieces at a time, how often are you feeding them in?