Worrying about overburn with stuffing the firebox

[creeker]

Hi, I want to get a good overnight burn, and I've been reading about folks who seem to literally stuff the firebox to achieve this, allowing an open damper to get a good burn going, and then dampering down. I'm hesitant to 'fill' the firebox on my Hearthstone Phoenix. It seems that when I have a good bed of coals from a day's worth of burning, just adding a couple of splits can the temps up over 550-600, which makes me nervous. Sure, it settles down after a while, but that first catch makes me nervous and I stay up keeping an eye on it (maybe I do this because I actually LIKE staying up alone with the fire at night - the house all dark - everyone else sleeping). Anyway, someone tell me I won't send my box into overburn if I stuff it for the night. Should I not open the damper at all, and let it smoulder with the damper shut down (or almost completely shut down) for the night? I just don't want a blazing 600 stove two hours after I go to sleep.

First year burner, new install, straight up flue 15 feet. All good wood, no apparent air leaks - burns fine most other times).

 

[thewoodlands]

Hi, I want to get a good overnight burn, and I've been reading about folks who seem to literally stuff the firebox to achieve this, allowing an open damper to get a good burn going, and then dampering down. I'm hesitant to 'fill' the firebox on my Hearthstone Phoenix. It seems that when I have a good bed of coals from a day's worth of burning, just adding a couple of splits can the temps up over 550-600, which makes me nervous. Sure, it settles down after a while, but that first catch makes me nervous and I stay up keeping an eye on it (maybe I do this because I actually LIKE staying up alone with the fire at night - the house all dark - everyone else sleeping). Anyway, someone tell me I won't send my box into overburn if I stuff it for the night. Should I not open the damper at all, and let it smoulder with the damper shut down (or almost completely shut down) for the night? I just don't want a blazing 600 stove two hours after I go to sleep.

First year burner, new install, straight up flue 15 feet. All good wood, no apparent air leaks - burns fine most other times).

I have a thermometer on my flue 18 inches up from the collar and one on the stove top. first step. Over fire for my woodstove is 800 +. I have to let the stove top temp get to 450 then I put in about 6 splits (cherry) and the stove top temp runs to 750 then holds.

Zap

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Creeker, you sound like the typical first year wood burner. It is good to be cautious but soon you will be comfortable.

It is sort of like a family who has a new baby. Watch how careful they are and they watch every little thing the little tyke does. But wait until the second or third one comes along and see the difference in how they handle that baby.

Again, it is good to be cautious, but don't be over cautious. The stoves are manufactured to give heat to a certain temperature. Most will stay well within that range with not much input from us.

Good luck.

 

[ckdeuce]

Hi, I want to get a good overnight burn, and I've been reading about folks who seem to literally stuff the firebox to achieve this, allowing an open damper to get a good burn going, and then dampering down. I'm hesitant to 'fill' the firebox on my Hearthstone Phoenix. It seems that when I have a good bed of coals from a day's worth of burning, just adding a couple of splits can the temps up over 550-600, which makes me nervous. Sure, it settles down after a while, but that first catch makes me nervous and I stay up keeping an eye on it (maybe I do this because I actually LIKE staying up alone with the fire at night - the house all dark - everyone else sleeping). Anyway, someone tell me I won't send my box into overburn if I stuff it for the night. Should I not open the damper at all, and let it smoulder with the damper shut down (or almost completely shut down) for the night? I just don't want a blazing 600 stove two hours after I go to sleep.

First year burner, new install, straight up flue 15 feet. All good wood, no apparent air leaks - burns fine most other times).

Try it 3/4 full one day that you are off. I load my Mansfield as full as I can get it. I let the surface temps reach 450-500 and then I shut her down fully. I have never been over 550. I also use a piece of aluminum foil folded flat about 1 1/2'' long with then end bent up. I place this on my thermometer so that I can see hot hot it gets while I am in bed. The thermometer pushes the foil, and when the temp drops the foil stays showing me how hot it gets. I have never hit overfire. You might have to strong a a draft??? Maybe add a stove pipe damper to shut it down more.

 

[YZF1R]

Good idea on the 3/4 full. I know if I stuff mine it will take off for a while even with the primary shut off. The 3/4 load will give the stove some room for air between the wood and the secondary tubes. This will give you a better idea of how it will do with a full load. And as already stated, don't be hesitant to close the air all the way if it looks like it's going to burn OK. If I'm almost tight up to the tubes, they will easily glow red and the fire will run as I can't control the flame blowing through the crack at what looks like a huge blow torch.

Steve

 

[wahoowad]

Hmmm, your manual says "Maintaining
temperatures in excess of 500°F (260°C) will cause
the stones to crack and cause other damage to the
stove."

 

[cycloxer]

For an overnight burn I pack the firebox to the gills, right up to the baffle, run at 100% air to get everything burning, and then back off to minimum air. This gives you the largest charge of fuel and then the slowest burn to release the heat. It is not rocket science and it is pretty safe if you close the air way down.

The best thing you can do is to experiment with your stove while you can watch it to learn how it burns. It is an art as much as it is a science.

 

[Battenkiller]

For an overnight burn I pack the firebox to the gills, right up to the baffle, run at 100% air to get everything burning, and then back off to minimum air. This gives you the largest charge of fuel and then the slowest burn to release the heat. It is not rocket science and it is pretty safe if you close the air way down.

I do basically the same as well.

Filling the stove cools it down significantly because you are adding wood that hasn't been pre-heated inside the firebox. You have to let it roar for a little while to get the new wood ignited down at the air supply, but then when you shut the air way down it shouldn't be able to run away on you.

I'm not at all familiar with your stove, (mine can hit some pretty high temps during this pre-heat), but once I shut down the primary air and hear that roar of the horizontal burn taking off, it quiets down pretty quickly within about five minutes.

The best thing you can do is to experiment with your stove while you can watch it to learn how it burns. It is an art as much as it is a science.

Well said.

I've spent many hours so far this season, seeing how my new stove works (very differently from my last one), and I consider it time well spent. I'm already quite comfortable with the way it works and can walk away from it most times without thinking about it too much. Keep pushing it as you watch and take mental notes. If you feel things are getting out off control, you're right there to take action. Soon you'll be getting all the BTUs it's capable of without risk of damage or injury. Definitely an art, so don't expect to pick it up overnight.

 

[begreen]

Soapstone stoves have lower operating temps, so I can see the concern here. Creeker, just to be sure, this is stove top temps, correct?

For any stove it's not a great idea to put a fresh load of wood on a large, red-hot coal bed. The coals should be burnt down a bit. I don't know the Phoenix well enough, but usually this is done by raking the coals toward the front of the stove and opening the air up quite a bit to accelerate their burn down. Then, with a moderate coal bed, the stove can be packed for the night. A couple things that will help: Use large splits as your base and stuff the air spaces with smaller spits to fill the voids. A stove filled with small 2-4" splits will take off much faster and hotter than one filled with 6-8" splits that have the voids filled.

 

[tfdchief]

Creeker, you sound like the typical first year wood burner. It is good to be cautious but soon you will be comfortable.

It is sort of like a family who has a new baby. Watch how careful they are and they watch every little thing the little tyke does. But wait until the second or third one comes along and see the difference in how they handle that baby.

Again, it is good to be cautious, but don't be over cautious. The stoves are manufactured to give heat to a certain temperature. Most will stay well within that range with not much input from us.

Good luck.

B Savage, I see how long you have been burning wood. I am only about 35 years burning wood. I have always loved everything about it except, I still watch, check, and worry! :-S I guess its probably because of my profession. So how much longer before I get completely comfortable?

 

[begreen]

No problem tfd. For us old f*rts, sooner or later we won't even remember there's a fire going. :ahhh:

 

[heatwise]

i have been filling up the firebox full on the phoenix and get it going real good then slowing the air down to the lowest setting. I havent had the stove past 450. most the time its at 300-350. i have chunks of oak that are square shaped rather than wedge or slice shaped. just wonder if the center stone on top has a hot spot on it somewhere or my themometer is inacurate. stoves putting out good heat but not anywhere near 500 on the top center stone. pete

 

[firefighterjake]

What you're experiencing is perfectly normal . . . i.e. the concern of overfiring the stove, worries about leaving it overnight and the attempt for the always elusive overnight burn.

A few random thoughts . . .

As BeGreen mentioned . . . you want to find out what temps are normal for your make and model of stove. I have no idea of what temps are considered "in the zone" and "cruising" temps vs. overfire temps. Folks, myself included, can tell you to run your stove up to Temp X, but your stove may work best at Temp Y or overfire at Temp W.

You've got the general idea . . . about a half hour or so before you're going to turn in and about when the coals are about the size of golfballs (at least in my case . . . and don't worry . . . after awhile you'll get so that you'll be able to time your loads and reloads so you're not doing the final reload a half hour after you normally go to bed or 2 hours before you go bed . . . the timing "thing" will just naturally happen over time as you get used to your stove) . . . add your splits and/or rounds. Turn up the air, get the stove top temp hot enough and then begin to dial the air down . . . ideally getting the air closed all the way or open just a dite. You'll know when you're at the right temp since the flue temp will either stay the same or drop a bit, the stove top temp may rise a bit and the secondary action will be fantastic. What you do not want to do is do the reload in a firebox that is not ready for a reload.

A key: I really think the key to a successful overnight fire is in wood. Now don't get me wrong. A large firebox helps . . . although I will still argue that it is not always necessary or even desirable to load the firebox to the gills (of course this is coming from me with a medium to large sized firebox with the Oslo). Also, the air control matters . . . in general (depending on how strong or weak the draft is) the more air you're feeding to the fire the faster it will burn. Ashes also help to insulate the coals so in the morning you have some decent sized coals to start the whole burning process over again. However, I honestly think the key is to have well seasoned wood since it allows you to get up to temp faster, maintain those high temps and dial the air down . . . oh yeah, and size also matters to a large degree. As mentioned, bigger is better (the mantra of guys everywhere ) . . . rather than throwing in a few small splits, I would recommend going with more and large splits or rounds . . . preferably something dense like oak, sugar maple, etc. . . . although moderately dense wood can also be used successfully.

How to get the jitters out of your system: On some weekend day load up the firebox as if you were going to set it up for your overnight fire . . . and then sit back and observe. Try it again on the next weekend day that you are free. Soon you will learn that a) the fire will not burn down your home if you are running the stove correctly and b) you will learn how to set the fire for the overnight.

Air Supply: (For woodstoves, not the band ) . . . if you've got an EPA stove and well seasoned wood don't worry too much about a smoldering fire providing that a) you're using seasoned wood, b) you've brought the stove up to a hot enough temp and c) you've dialed down the air supply as low as you can without the fire stalling on you (give it 5-10 minutes once you've turned it down to the quarter or lower mark . . . if the fire dies, give it more air for another 10-15 minutes and try dialing down it again . . . if the secondaries keep going, congrats, you're in the zone.)

 

[Valhalla]

Develope your confidence with your fine new stove. My advice
is to at least:

1. Gradually learn your stove's reaction to your loading and burns.
2. Fill your stove cafefully so that gravity feeds it. So it does
not jam in the firebox.
3. Use only seasoned fuel. Learn how each wood species burns.
4. You will make mistakes, also learn from them. Apply what you
have learned next time.
5. Enjoy wood burning and never feel pressured to rush and
take a shortcut.


Burn safely and wisely.

 

[creeker]

Hey, OP here. I am inspired and humbled by the experience and the advice I've received. All your help, just by itself, makes me proud to be heating with wood. I always knew I had it in me. Just finally made it happen. As far as what I'll do...

#1 Say thanks.
2. I'm off for 10 solid days - YES!. The whole family is here. I'm sitting in my rocking chair a bit away from the stove for a good view, and I'm going to work on that good solid overnight burn. I've been having success so far, but really not pushing it at all. A few medium splits.
3. The advice about bringing the coals down to a moderate size is, for me, probably part of the solution for keeping the fire from running away. I can see that's been one of my problems. I've got a dynamite bed of coals, and I put a few good dry splits on that, and it takes off, regardless of damper controls. Got to let those coals settle down first. With that, I can start loading in a bit more with confidence (and keeping an eye on it)

Interesting technique offered on recording the high temp on the thermometer. I'll have to try that. BTW, my thermometer is about 6 inches up on the flue, external temp. So when I'm reading 550-600, I'm assuming almost double interior. Not that all these figures mean everything to me. It's good to monitor, but I can tell when that box is just billowing full and roiling with those syrupy flames, it's a good idea not to go to bed right yet.

BTW, I've cut my gas bill in half so far. Still have gas hot water and three teenagers who drain the tank showering, and a gas dryer - with, again, three teenagers who stuff the washer and hence stuff the dyer with their wet clothes that didn't spin out enough in the washer. At least they do their own laundry. And I wouldn't be half the man I am today without them. Glad they're all home.

All I want for Christmas is a good insulated sleeve for the water heater.

Thanks all. Happy Holidays, and happy burning.

 

[adrpga498]

For an overnight burn I pack the firebox to the gills, right up to the baffle, run at 100% air to get everything burning, and then back off to minimum air. This gives you the largest charge of fuel and then the slowest burn to release the heat. It is not rocket science and it is pretty safe if you close the air way down.

The best thing you can do is to experiment with your stove while you can watch it to learn how it burns. It is an art as much as it is a science.

Same stove and routine here . Good post, I back down in stages, 50% clossed the 1st step, then 80 percent closed after 15 minutes or so.

 

[firefighterjake]

Creeker . . . is there a reason your flue thermometer is only 6 inches up . . . if memory serves me correctly most companies recommend the thermometer be placed 18 inches or so up on the flue if possible.

 

[creeker]

reason the thermometer is only six inches up is that the stove is in our fireplace, and we only have about 10" clearance to the top of the fireplace.

 

[firefighterjake]

reason the thermometer is only six inches up is that the stove is in our fireplace, and we only have about 10" clearance to the top of the fireplace.

Ah, after posting I was thinking that this might have been the reason.

 

[Lanningjw]

Creeker, you sound like the typical first year wood burner. It is good to be cautious but soon you will be comfortable.

It is sort of like a family who has a new baby. Watch how careful they are and they watch every little thing the little tyke does. But wait until the second or third one comes along and see the difference in how they handle that baby.

Again, it is good to be cautious, but don't be over cautious. The stoves are manufactured to give heat to a certain temperature. Most will stay well within that range with not much input from us.

Good luck.

Brother BS,
You have also helped me with my cat/by-bass by keeping the by-pass opened on a new load for 10 minutes to burn off some off the moisture in the wood before engaging the cat. Thanks for this advise, Its working well for me. They say nothing in the BK manual about this, but it works well, keeps the glass cleaner.
I wish I could thank you more than just mentioning it. It has meant alot to me!

 

[jmhpsu93]

Hey, OP here. I am inspired and humbled by the experience and the advice I've received. All your help, just by itself, makes me proud to be heating with wood. I always knew I had it in me. Just finally made it happen. As far as what I'll do...

#1 Say thanks.
2. I'm off for 10 solid days - YES!. The whole family is here. I'm sitting in my rocking chair a bit away from the stove for a good view, and I'm going to work on that good solid overnight burn. I've been having success so far, but really not pushing it at all. A few medium splits.
3. The advice about bringing the coals down to a moderate size is, for me, probably part of the solution for keeping the fire from running away. I can see that's been one of my problems. I've got a dynamite bed of coals, and I put a few good dry splits on that, and it takes off, regardless of damper controls. Got to let those coals settle down first. With that, I can start loading in a bit more with confidence (and keeping an eye on it)

Interesting technique offered on recording the high temp on the thermometer. I'll have to try that. BTW, my thermometer is about 6 inches up on the flue, external temp. So when I'm reading 550-600, I'm assuming almost double interior. Not that all these figures mean everything to me. It's good to monitor, but I can tell when that box is just billowing full and roiling with those syrupy flames, it's a good idea not to go to bed right yet.

BTW, I've cut my gas bill in half so far. Still have gas hot water and three teenagers who drain the tank showering, and a gas dryer - with, again, three teenagers who stuff the washer and hence stuff the dyer with their wet clothes that didn't spin out enough in the washer. At least they do their own laundry. And I wouldn't be half the man I am today without them. Glad they're all home.

All I want for Christmas is a good insulated sleeve for the water heater.

Thanks all. Happy Holidays, and happy burning.

The Hearthstone Phoenix manual specifically recommends placing the thermometer on the top center stone, and to not exceed 500F for any extended time. I would recommend you place your thermometer there, or get another one if you want to know what's going on inside the flue and firebox (which certainly isn't a bad idea, just not as practical with my hearth mount setup).

I don't have much success getting long, overnight burns on my Phoenix but I'm still playing around with the wood load time, species, etc. I've found so far that NS loading is an improvement, but not that much. I can get about an 8-hour burn with the stovetop still around 275 or so in the morning with a coal bed that ignites small splits.

I have yet to get my stove top above 450F, and at that point it was REALLY throwing the heat. I can't imagine what it would be like over-firing, and I don't want to find out! Good luck and keep sharing your results!