XXV won't fire

[craigsward]

Bought my Harman XXV in April and finally installed it today. AND of course it won't start. I plug it in, put it in auto mode, and the blowers work, but the auger won't feed and the igniter won't fire. The ignitor and feed motor lights don't light up. So i tried it in manual mode. I loaded the burn pot, put a good amount of gel on the pellets, mixed it around, and lit it. It seems every time i close the door the fire goes out shortly there after. I can't seem to get it to stay lit. So maybe i have a draft issue? Would this cause the igniter and feeder not to work?

Its a corner installation. The vent setup is Simpson Durevent. The vent sections go appliance adapter, 45 degree, horizontal 1 foot long adjustable , horizontal 1 foot long, thimble, horizontal 1 foot long adjustable, tee with cleanout, vertical 3 foot long, 90 degree, horizontal cap. I also have the integrated simpson duravent outside air kit thimble hooked up using 3" flex pipe. All of the seams are sealed.

Would running an extension cord have any ill effect? I thought i read the plastic flat head screw next to the ignitor light may need to be adjusted depending on voltage supply.

Also a general question, there is a black high / low switch located on the firewall in the control panel cubby. I see no mention of this switch in the manual. What is it?

Any ideas on what to do to troubleshoot this?

thanks.

 

[hoverfly]

Is the damper for the air supply open? to much?

The High/Low option is where you use a thermostat, when it's not calling for heat the stove stays on but on a low setting. When the T-stat calls for heat the stove increases to a higher setting. Unlike Auto where the stove shuts down completely when no heat is called for.

 

[Lousyweather]

hmmm......are you using the outside ait kit? did you make sure you cut the insulation disk out of the air kit? Could be alot of things....the vac switch controls the auger.....although rare, if its faulty, or unhooked, or the airtube is plugged, cracked, kinked, broken, etc, it wont feed as well.....if the door is left open, it wont feed. The not feeding issue is the big key here.....it wont ignite if it wont feed.......not fuel supply......did you take a draft reading (Im guessing not- nt many folks have a magnehelic)..........your stove still is under warrantee.....just make sure its not an install issue, as service charges will apply....

 

[cantman]

Have you tried the "test" mode and verified that the auger and blowers (combustion/room air) are operational?
The "high/low" switch controls the speed at which the room air blower operates and will "quiet the blower " on the "low" setting.
When using the "fire gel" to start this pellet stove, mix the gel into the pellets and then light the pellet/gel mixture. Leave the
pellet stove's door slightly ajar and let the fire catch to the pellets. (takes about 30 to 60 seconds/YMMV) Close the door and check for proper operation.

 

[craigsward]

The outside air kit being used is the one from Simpson, not Harman. It has a 2-1/4 inch ID flex pipe attached to it. The Harman outlet is 2-3/8", so it wouldn't fit. I attached 3" flex, couldn't find 2-3/8" anywhere, to the 2-1/4" pipe. I used sealant, a hose clamp, and aluminum tape to mate the two hoses together. I then used a hose clamp and sealant to mate the 3" flex pipe to the outlet on the stove. There is no leakage, and you can feel the cold air coming in. I wouldn't think this setup would be the issue but i am certainly open to anything.

I don't have a draft meter, although i wish i did.

I mistyped in my first post, i meant to say i had the stove in test mode, in the auto ignite setting, and the auger wouldn't feed pellets, nor would the light illuminate. In turn when i took it out of test mode it wouldn't ignite. Not sure what would prevent the auger from not feeding pellets into the burn pot in test mode, aside from the vacuum thing you mentioned or a bad auger.

I then tried manually lighting it. Filled the burn pot, lots of gel and the pellets started to burn pretty good, so i closed the door. The flames gradually went out, and the ambers glowed and lit ash flew for a while, but ultimately it went out.

I may try calling my dealer. So if its warranty they won't charge you, if its install related what is a typical service call cost?

Any other ideas?

 

[imacman]

......The vent setup is Simpson Durevent. The vent sections go appliance adapter, 45 degree, horizontal 1 foot long adjustable , horizontal 1 foot long, thimble, horizontal 1 foot long adjustable, tee with cleanout, vertical 3 foot long, 90 degree, horizontal cap.

Would running an extension cord have any ill effect?......

First of all, running an extension cord, as long as it isn't one of those cheap dollar store thin gauge things, shouldn't be a problem. If you do get the stove to run, place your fingers on the cord. if any part of it feels hot, shut the stove off and get a cord w/ heavier wire.

If that's not an issue, the only thing I can say, since I don't own a Harman, is that your vent might have too many bends. Is the flue 3" or 4" pipe?

The EVL on what you have now is 17. Normally, anything with 3" pipe and an EVL over 15 calls for an increase to 4" pipe.

 

[Lousyweather]

Macman could be on to something, but I think its unlikely. Stupid question, but are ALL doors close don the stove....aash door, hopper door, main door?

 

[DAKSY]

You DID take all the stuff out of the opper BEFORE you filled it with pellets, right?
The manual, t-stat wire, & touch-up paint are generally in there for shipment...
My Harman trouble-shooting guide says the first thing to check is the draft...

 

[wil lanfear]

From what you have mentioned in your posts, I'm guessing that you have a combustion air issue. Have you checked the backdraft damper on the combustion air inlet ? Remove the OAK to see if this is opening allowing air for combustion, sometimes they stick closed. Restricted combustion air will not allow the low air switch to make a closed contact, auger will not feed, igniter will not be powered for combustion. If the damper is opening, I would check the low air switch to see if its functioning. Unplug the stove, remove the blue and white wire from the switch, use a piece of insulated wire as a jumper to connect these two wires together, power the stove back up to see if the auger will feed pellets, igniter light should be on. Use this jumper wire only as a test, remove after the test, plug the blue and white wire back on the switch.

 

[craigsward]

Macman could be on to something, but I think its unlikely. Stupid question, but are ALL doors close don the stove....aash door, hopper door, main door?

Yup.

 

[craigsward]

From what you have mentioned in your posts, I'm guessing that you have a combustion air issue. Have you checked the backdraft damper on the combustion air inlet ? Remove the OAK to see if this is opening allowing air for combustion, sometimes they stick closed. Restricted combustion air will not allow the low air switch to make a closed contact, auger will not feed, igniter will not be powered for combustion. If the damper is opening, I would check the low air switch to see if its functioning. Unplug the stove, remove the blue and white wire from the switch, use a piece of insulated wire as a jumper to connect these two wires together, power the stove back up to see if the auger will feed pellets, igniter light should be on. Use this jumper wire only as a test, remove after the test, plug the blue and white wire back on the switch.

I'll take your advice. I'm about to go do some testing. I did check the backdraft damper and it flaps back and forth quite easily. We'll see.

 

[wil lanfear]

I think I would remove the OAK, look to confirm that the damper is opening when the combustion blower is running, if it is , proceed to the air switch test that I mentioned.

 

[GVA]

If it's the vacuum switch not closing The ignitor and feed led's would still be lit.
So this takes out draft and comb blower related problems.
I would think something shook loose from the control board or maybe a power problem.
Try plugging it in somewhere else.
edit
Are you getting a blinking status light?
Put it in auto start and walk away for 30 minutes see if it has an blinking light when you come back.....
Do you have this hooked to an external t-stat?

 

[craigsward]

If it's the vacuum switch not closing The ignitor and feed led's would still be lit.
So this takes out draft and comb blower related problems.
I would think something shook loose from the control board or maybe a power problem.
Try plugging it in somewhere else.
edit
Are you getting a blinking status light?
Put it in auto start and walk away for 30 minutes see if it has an blinking light when you come back.....
Do you have this hooked to an external t-stat?

The OAK seems to be functioning fine, the flapper opens and closes with the pipe off. I didn't check the air switch yet, but it sounds like i don't need to. I also went through my flu pipe and added even more sealant to the adjustable pipes just to make sure of no leaks.
Put it in test mode and still no feed or igniter lights, and in turn no auger feeding pellets into burn pot. I manually lit it and burned a full pot of pellets and sure enough it did NOT feed more pellets. I have never burned a pellet stove before but i'm fairly certain what i saw is not what a good burn is supposed to look like. Very little flames just lots of red ambers.

No i am not getting any blinking status lights. I get a solid status light when i take it out of test mode. But i haven't let it sit in auto mode for 30 minutes. I'll go do that now.

I have tried plugging in to two locations and tried three extension cords. The last one is a pretty thick guage.

I looked over the wires by the blower, and air switch and everything seems to be attached. Maybe something came loose at the control panel?? Could it be an issue with the ESP probe? The stove adapter pipe is pretty sealed on there so i didn't want to take it off to take a look.

No i haven't hooked up the t-stat yet. Have only been trying it in Stove Temp Mode.

I'll report back on the status light in about 45.

 

[craigsward]

NOt sure if this has any bearing but i thought it was strange. When i plug the stove in the combustion blower starts blowing for a quick second and then shuts down and the stove is silent. It turns back on when i put it in test mode and seems to continuously run thereafter.

 

[craigsward]

I have a 5 fast blinks on the status light.

 

[Lousyweather]

the 5 fast blinks is just telling you that the unit has failed to ignite in its 36 minute ignition cycle....but you know this already. Since I read that your combustion blower runs continuously, it should be producing negative pressure in the firebox, allowing the vac switch to open and power the auger and igniter.....boy, a draft test would really be nice here! It could be a bad vac switch, but as someone above stated, wire around it TEMPORARILY, and see......whats the possibility something got stuck in your pipe and is blocking it? A critter, perhaps? I dont think its the probe, that would be a 3 blink error, although it can cause funky issues. Circuitboard? maybe......note though that this xxv is still under warrantee, right? Maybe time to call the dealer now? It could be a warrantee claim. Just check the pipe first! We pulled 6 dead birds out of one...that ISNT covered under warrantee! Also got a duck out of another...go figure.....poor thing was a crispy critter.....it was on a coal stove!

 

[Delta-T]

i'd suggest disconnecting the exhaust pipe from the stove all together, then put it in test mode. If somethings blocking the pipe the auger should feed without the pipe on. If you've got the pipe disconnected and you still have no feeding in test mode check the wires to make sure something just didn't get plugged in at the factory or if something wiggled loose. With the stove disconnected and the back panels removed, you should be able to watch everything go, and if the auger is turning, but no pellets are entering the burnpot then at least you know everything is moving and its probably something like a bridge in the hopper. good luck.

 

[craigsward]

Still no auger movement in test after removing pipe.

Its a brand new setup, so there are no birds or anything in the flu.

 

[amick780]

Brand new stove....would not even play around with it, it is under warranty. Call the dealer and get them involved, before you end up breaking something and voiding the warranty.

 

[Delta-T]

sounds like a bad auger motor at this point, but thats pretty rare on a brand new stove. Sure the combustion fan is turning?? (not by observing the light on the CB, but by actually looking at the motor).

 

[amick780]

Call the dealer, it sounds like it is a bad vacuum switch for sure, or somthing causing the switch to since a draft problem.

 

[wil lanfear]

Looking at the wiring diagram on page # 29 of the owners manual, the hopper lid switch has to be a closed contact, the low pressure switch has to be a closed contact, in order for the auger motor to run. Have you confirmed that these both are closed? If you have, IMHO, maybe its time for the dealer's service tech to take a look at it.

 

[GVA]

Still....... to all unless all the led's are burned out on the board (or a bad board) the vacuum switch breaks the neutral to the auger and ignitor therefore the led's would be on even if the vacuum switch was bad.
Don't believe me just open the door to you're stove next time you start it up and check the led's Note the auger WILL NOT TURN but the light will be on.
The vac switch has nothing to do with the board it breaks the neutral to the feed and ignitor ONLY as I mentioned. It helps with the troubleshooting here.......
If the led's were lit I would be on the same line of thinking, vac switch not closing for most of the reasons mentioned by others......
So all that and since you did not get the 3 blink "ESP failure" outright, No 4 blink also indicates room sensor circuit seems ok. Not that it is relevent in this case....
I'm saying it's the board or a connection to it.
Call the dealer.....
But humor me here is the comb blower spinning?

 

[craigsward]

sounds like a bad auger motor at this point, but thats pretty rare on a brand new stove. Sure the combustion fan is turning?? (not by observing the light on the CB, but by actually looking at the motor).

positive. I had it running with the rear cover plates off so i could see.
I called my dealer yesterday to get a tech out here. The tech never called back. So i called again and he said he would have him call me today. And of course nothing. Thats some great service after spending over 3k on a stove that doesn't appear to be working properly. Hopefully they get back to me tomorrow. I do understand its their busy season, and being in sales i guess i can relate. Just frustrated.

Thanks for all your help guys. Keep the ideas coming and i'll continue to investigate until the tech comes out.