Good morning. I am adding a 400sf enclosed porch this summer to my home, which will be accessed off the sliding kitchen door. I live in an area that gets pretty darn cold during the winter (right now it is -3 ambient) and would ideally like to use the porch all year. The porch will have zero insulation - only vinyl windows to keep out the wind and moisture. My plan is to include a ZC fireplace to create the heat needed to use the room, and hopefully enough heat that will spill into our poorly heated kitchen when the door is open. Through my research, I have found that I like the arched double door look, but there are so many to choose from, and perhaps my needs will help narrow down my options. My questions are: 1.) How big of a fireplace would I need to create enough heat for the porch, and is it possible to get one that is too big since it will not be used to heat the entire house? 2) Is it possible to heat the entire house (appox 2000 sqft) from a fireplace on the porch, which will be located opposite the house? 3.) Do I want to go catalyst or noncatalyst? 4.) Are there any specific fireplaces that would be ideal for this situation? Also, I do plan on having it professionally installed but my options are limited. My one local dealer sells Quadrafire and RSF, another dealer from a town an hour away sells FPX, and that is all the farther I have looked. I'm sure I can order online if need be. Thank you for your knowledge and expertise - as you can tell, this is completely new to me.
ZC in an enclosed porch
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It's unlikely that the space will overheat a zero degrees, but the space may not be very appealing at that outside temp. Most porches leak a lot of air. During strong winds it could be a losing battle unless some effort is spent to seal and insulate the porch area. Otherwise a large part of the fuel in the fireplace will be heating outdoors. Some practical things to think about. Chimney height: will this installation be able to meet the minimum requirement? Some will want about 16' chimney. Additional space heating: many good ZC fireplaces offer the option to duct the heat off the fireplace into another area. With simple gravity vents the fireplace may be able to contribute substantially to whatever space is behind the ZC.
Thank you, begreen, for your response. I was unaware of the chimney height, but I believe it can be met.
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jetsam
Minister of Fire
I would give up on heating the rest of the house at all in cold weather, and I would probably also give up on heating the porch much unless either you insulate it or you plan to sit right next to the stove.
The combination of no insulation and all those windows is likely to be too much for even a large space heater to overcome in very cold weather. You're better off closing the door than running a stove when it gets cool enough that the stove can't keep up.
However, this is new construction. Why inflict all that pain on yourself? Why split six cords of wood a year to heat the outdoors and probably make the house colder?
Do at least 2x6 construction, leave room for R60+ in the rafters, insulate the whole thing well, get heatlock glass in your vinyl windows for a few bucks more, and put the stove in a further-insulated alcove facing the opening to the main house so the radiant heat goes in instead of out. Either use a couple large sliding or French doors, or leave the whole wall open, to promote lots of air circulation. It might cost a little more to build but it will be pleasant all year, and your new addition will help heat your house rather than the opposite.
The new construction cost to do larger framing and add insulation is probably less than the first year's drain on your heating bills, and it will make your whole concept workable in cold weather.
The combination of no insulation and all those windows is likely to be too much for even a large space heater to overcome in very cold weather. You're better off closing the door than running a stove when it gets cool enough that the stove can't keep up.
However, this is new construction. Why inflict all that pain on yourself? Why split six cords of wood a year to heat the outdoors and probably make the house colder?
Do at least 2x6 construction, leave room for R60+ in the rafters, insulate the whole thing well, get heatlock glass in your vinyl windows for a few bucks more, and put the stove in a further-insulated alcove facing the opening to the main house so the radiant heat goes in instead of out. Either use a couple large sliding or French doors, or leave the whole wall open, to promote lots of air circulation. It might cost a little more to build but it will be pleasant all year, and your new addition will help heat your house rather than the opposite.
The new construction cost to do larger framing and add insulation is probably less than the first year's drain on your heating bills, and it will make your whole concept workable in cold weather.
Great ideas and definitely something I will look into; however, I will not be able to add the Heatlock on the windows (the windows themselves are vinyl, not glass - sorry I wasn't clear earlier).
I have my heart set on a fireplace, but I'm wondering if a wood burning stove would produce more heat than a ZC. Or are they very similar in heat production? Honestly, the reason I thought I could heat the porch during winter goes back to how warm we were able to keep a wall tent with just a little wood burning stove. Am I way off?
I have my heart set on a fireplace, but I'm wondering if a wood burning stove would produce more heat than a ZC. Or are they very similar in heat production? Honestly, the reason I thought I could heat the porch during winter goes back to how warm we were able to keep a wall tent with just a little wood burning stove. Am I way off?
spudman99
Feeling the Heat
Your not way off in your memories. A single uninsulated room with a ZC heater can reach a warm temperature with lots of wood and some time. Your goals this time around are different. The porch will be hard to heat like the wall tent - only now you will have to secure, cut, haul, stack and carry all that extra wood. And then due to the enormous loss of heat in the porch, refill the stove frequently. Then when it pulls heat from the main house figure that out.
Your desires are reasonable, its in the execution that it becomes difficult.
Your desires are reasonable, its in the execution that it becomes difficult.
Eureka
Feeling the Heat
That uninsulated porch will be constantly sucking heat from the room and the rest of your house. I’ve seen it done and you’ll never get ahead of the heat loss. Floor will be ice cold. I would very very strongly recommend insulating the entire addition. It will make it warm in winter and cooler in summer; even when the door is closed to the house. There are very affordable insulated vinyl windows of decent quality that work great in this application. Freestanding stoves radiate more heat than ZC fireplaces.
I can guarantee you will regret trying to be cheap in the future. Do it once. Do it right.
I can guarantee you will regret trying to be cheap in the future. Do it once. Do it right.
I strongly echo both Eureka and Jetsam. I think your current plan is not sound.
Construct it properly as suggested, the only thing I would add if you continue down the current plan ICE DAM's on the roof of a poorly constructed/insulated porch with a stove will result in ice dam's , leaks , major headaches and repair costs etc.
? the trade off initial costs of following Eurieka's and Jetsam's vs the stove/fireplace.
Construct it properly as suggested, the only thing I would add if you continue down the current plan ICE DAM's on the roof of a poorly constructed/insulated porch with a stove will result in ice dam's , leaks , major headaches and repair costs etc.
? the trade off initial costs of following Eurieka's and Jetsam's vs the stove/fireplace.
Actually, if the idea is to scavenge off heat to be vented into the main house then not necessarily so. The ducted heat feature here will provide hot air to the house even if the porch is not heated well by the fireplace due to heat loss.
Sounds like I should not plan to heat much more than the patio and keep the house closed off while the fireplace is in use. Also, I should not hope to use the room during the dead of winter. I will definitely plan to insulate the roof and flooring but that is probably all I can do since most walls will be windows (EzeBreeze to be exact). Doubt it makes any difference, but maybe I should mention that I plan to have a brick oven installed on a wall away from the fireplace. Also, we have plenty of wood on our property from our treelines that need to be cleaned up. The whole goal of the patio is to enjoy the outdoors without flies during the summer (we live close to a feedlot) and have a place to entertain guests during college football season. Reading by the fire during a snowstorm would be pretty awesome, but it doesn't necessarily sound feasible without giving up some windows in exchange for insulation. Thank you, again, for all your knowledge.
blacktail
Minister of Fire
It may be fine with winter temps over freezing. With a jacket on the room might be still nice for hanging out and having a beer. If it gives you pleasure and you know that a lot of the heat is going into the house then it could be a nice investment. Maybe make some insulated panels to fit in the windows during very cold weather or install some insulating shades.
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Shades are a good idea. I also read that radiant heat from the floor can do wonders in an all window patio during the winter, so I'll also look into that. Thank you, again, for the suggestions.
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