The usual: What to buy?

[ProPain]

I am looking for a fireplace insert to burn wood. These are my priorities:

1) Efficient: Puts out a lot of heat for as little wood burned.
2) Quiet. I don't want roaring fans or other noise produced by cheap units.
3) Clean burning
4) Large viewing window
5) Built to last

I expect to pay no more than $5,000 fully installed w/ insulated stainless flue liner - out the door.

All help is very much appreciated.

Propain

 

[webbie]

Fireplace size and house size are important...how open it is.
Fill in the location field in your user profile - that matters also.

If you are open to a stove on the Hearth or partway in and part way out, that gives you more efficiency than most inserts and no fan needed.

After those option, you have to consider what dealers close to you carry....lots of good units out there in your budget. Jotul, Regency, Quad, Avalon, Lopi......all make inserts or hearth stoves. Same with HearthStone and Woodstock Soapstone if you like to go with a soapstone unit.

Lots of choices. Make sure you read the article in my sig about choosing a stove as well as the sticky at the top of the forum about NOT letting us all decide for you....

 

[ProPain]

I am located south of Chelsea, Michigan.

We are in a 1900 farmhouse. The fireplace is 41" wide at front tapering to 30.5 in back x 27" high x 21 deep.
It is a two story house and about 1600 sq feet total (not including basement).

I am now looking at the Vermont Castings 'Montpelier'. This model has been recommended by
two different vendors and from what I have been told it is pretty easy to install/repair and has the
features (I think) I listed above.

These units are not quite out on the market . . . due in August, but the salesguys say that
V.C. makes a great product and that this model has been in the works for several years.
V.C. thought it would appear last year, but more tweaking delayed its release. It is EPA and U.L. approved

Any opinions?

Thanks again Hearth Folks!

 

[aussieblake]

I will not be the first to say this but VC is in serious financial trouble. If it were me I would look at other brands.

aussieblake

 

[ProPain]

Yeah, I heard about that too. That said, do you have other inserts that you would recommend?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

are you looking for a cat unit , non cat? steel, cast, soapstone? and yes we need to know about chimney height, flue size how much hearth you have in front of the fireplace opening.

definately look as craig asked at the sticky and think on the choices, im a free agent on this one as i do not have a 2K sqft insert in wood to sell , so i can recommend whoever i think will work out for you ( i would anyway), but it will help to know a bit more.

 

[SteveT]

I recently purchased a Hearthstone Clydesdale and, although I have very limited experience with it so far, I am pleased with my choice. Most Clydesdale owners seem to weigh in with favorable comments; see several reviews on this site.

The Clydesdale seems to meet all your criteria:

- very large viewing area
- built like a tank
- good manufacturer reputation
- low blower noise
- should be well within your budget (I spent $4200 installed (stove with the optional enamel finish at $300 extra, full stainless liner in a two story Cape. The only difference is that I did not insulate the liner since it is a center chimney).

 

[webbie]

All of those I mentioned and more - jotul has inserts and stoves, lopi, avalon, regency, etc.

and

 

[Jerry_NJ]

I had a Quadrafire 4100-I wood insert installed last month, obviously I have no operational experience with it. I had it installed and paid about $4,200 with tax, that involved some negotiated price discounts, but it would have been under $5,000 even if I paid full list prices. I had to buy a 35' liner and insulation, a shorter chimney would cost a couple of hundred less. This unit has a bay window and stick out on the hearth, one of its selling points if one likes to be able to see the fire. It is a non-cat unit which meets all UL requirements and is rather efficient (test specs). Quadrafire is a respected name, and made (assembled?) in the US, in the Northwest..out in the Seattle area. I have two dealers within a 25 mile radius of my home, another reason I picked Quadrafire.

 

[ProPain]

The chimney is about 30 ft. I do have a hearth that sticks out into the room past the fireplace, but I would rather have an insert that is flush or almost flush.
I am not sure about Cat or non cat, but want something the burns somewhat clean. Is cast better than welded steel?

I was also considering a Clydesdale.

Anyone owners with a winter or two experience?

Again, much thanks for the help.

 

[webbie]

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/comparing_stove_materials/
https://www.hearth.com/ratings/search.php

 

[RedRanger]

My 2 cents worth. Look at the Enviro Kodiak with the 2.5 cu.ft firebox. that is the 1700 model. Same one as on my avatar. You can dress it up with the gold door and gold trim surround. This beast will stand all kinds of scrutinity= 5/16 steel on top, and 1/4 steel on the sides. You would really have to work really hard to over fire this beast. It just throws out the heat and you should find the price respectable, probably around $1800 (plain)..

The included fan is a 180cfm blower that is housed in the left shroud. Well worth a look, in spite of what those summit owners think. this monster is just as good if not better value for the dollars expended.

 

[BrotherBart]

Well worth a look, in spite of what those summit owners think. this monster is just as good if not better value for the dollars expended.

Yeah. The 1700 appears to be a nice little stove. I still think the stove body is 3/16", but a nice little stove none the less. ;-)

 

[gibson]

Having just purchased a Jotul Rockland for my home and extensively shopped virtually all of the brands available in the RI/SE Mass area, I can safely say that you can purchase virtually any insert on the market for under $5000 installed. My unit delivered and setup in the fireplace was around $2600. I am installing myself but you could tack on $1500 for the liner and install and then you are at $4100. Congrats! It seems you can get just about anything you want. Good Luck.

 

[ProPain]

I learned some more info last night. One of our neighbors had a lot to say on this subject.
They first decided to put a large insert because someone said that bigger is better.
They chose to install the liner themselves and I guess that turned into a real pain.
There were leaks and all kinds of trouble to get it to operate well. They finally got it
working but because their house was too warm, they ended up having to keep their fires slow burning.
That caused a huge build up of creosote which resulted in a fire.
After that it took hours to get the liner cleaned out. I guess they ended up pulling it and
found out that there is a lot more to installing liner than they thought from the pros they hired.
They highly recommended getting professionals to put together the right system for the house
and have them install it all as they ended up getting a new insert and liner after this debacle.
They sold the old one on Craig's list for a big loss.

 

[webbie]

Good point, Pro....

It should be said that long term and regular Forum members probably are not indicative of the average customer - the average customer should definitely find a good stove shop that has been in business a LONG time and consult with them for the entire job and selection if possible.

On Hearth.com we are dealing with a more educated consumer (in general) who often has had many stoves over the years...

It's not really rocket science to choose and install these, but then again many people don't know how to use a drill properly or climb up on steep roofs and ladders!

As to the thickness of one stove compared to another, in my experience this has absolutely nothing to do with longevity or performance. A bent piece of 3/16 is much stronger than a straight piece of 1/4" - and I have seen stoves built of sheet metal last 20 years or more. In fact, many antique stoves are partially made of sheet metal as thin as 1/32 of an inch. In short, I would not use wall thickness as a criteria for purchase, but rather the engineering of the particular model.

Now if a stove was built to stop bullets - as opposed to heating - it would be another thing.

 

[ProPain]

I get the idea the Jotul makes a superior product. How come you cannot find prices posted online for these units?
Anyone know what the small 350 costs?

 

[begreen]

Some companies have policies against internet sales. They want the customer directly connected with the dealer for service and warranty purposes. The Winterport used to go for about $2000 once you added the blower and trim. But in today's market, with a European product, it's hard to say what the local dealers are charging. I would expect it to be at least $2400, but could be wrong.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Yes, Craig, happy to read your advice on thickness. I purchased the Quadrafire without any consideration of the metal thickness, going instead on the "name" for quality, and the guarantees.

As for the thickness in the 1700, not important to me, and I think it looks like a nice BIG insert, not "small as BB" characterizes it. This too is important, as our questioner has reported, don't buy one that is too big.

Again, I didn't look at the 1700 because the nearest dealer was over 50 miles away from my home. If there is one near, I think it and its smaller "brother" should be on the check-it-out list of any insert buyer.

EDIT ADD: I priced a Jotul Rockland last June: $2763, hardware for install with insulation $1500, and Labor $640, this would be over $5K with 7% tax, but the dealer was ready to negotiate, I think, he immediately offered 5% off for check/cash verses Visa/charge.

 

[begreen]

If your main concern is heat at a good price, there are inserts at about $1500 that will do just as good a job. Jotul makes inserts of high quality, but behind the facade, they are a good steel stove at heart. There are nice design differences like a sealed stainless secondary system and the blowers seem a notch better and quieter. Jotul freestanding stoves are all cast iron.

My preference is for a stove that has a low maintenance, sealed secondary system. Some manufacturers simply lay a ceramic baffle board on top of the secondary burn tubes as a cost savings. It's not my favorite because it means a replacement part every few years. Jotul has an enclosed secondary system which is a nice advantage in the long run. But it is not the only good system out there. Some stoves have a layer of firebrick above the secondaries. Others enclose the secondary system in a stainless box. These systems should also stand up well and and stay inexpensive to maintain.

Note, although this is my preference, the ceramic baffle board is not inferior when it comes to stove operation as long as the baffle board/blanket system is kept in good condition. Some stoves using this system achieve remarkably efficient burns. The advantage these systems have over the Jotul is that it is easy to pull the board out and clean the flue without removing the insert. But the board is fragile and can get beat up quickly when loading wood or servicing the stove. They cost about $60-$100 currently. Some inserts have the best of both worlds with an easily removable enclosed secondary system(ie PE). And as noted, some use easy to remove and replace firebrick (ie Lopi).

 

[webbie]

I get the idea the Jotul makes a superior product. How come you cannot find prices posted online for these units?
Anyone know what the small 350 costs?

As BG mentions, most stove prices cannot be found online. The exception are brands which are available at mass merchants and so called "2nd and 3rd tier" brands. By that I don't mean they are always inferior in quality, but that they are not usually the first choice of the top dealers in the industry.

Without being too much of a pest, I wish Hearth.com would NOT become the place where folks look for the last $5 off the price of a stove - we are all about information, and although that may include good deals Google Shopping or one of many other sites and search engines can do a better job for folks looking for the best possible deals.

 

[ProPain]

My apologies, but I am not looking for the last five dollar discount, but rather to at least have a ballpark so I don't
drive 100 miles to know Jotul is out of my price range. Thanks to this list I think that the Jotul 350 is.

<<My preference is for a stove that has a low maintenance, sealed secondary system.

Thanks for the post. Could you please name the brands that have this feature?

I also really want a unit with a quiet fan. Remember, I want to spend no more than $5K. I hope that isn't considered lowball.

 

[begreen]

That's a tough one, I don't know all the stoves, but Jotul, Pacific Energy are a couple. Morso has a similar secondary too. Lopi and Avalon use firebrick.

As for the blowers, maybe start another thread asking about blower noise comparisons? When at the dealer ask if the blower motor(s) has sleeve bearings or sealed ball bearings. Sleeve bearing motors tend to be used on the less expensive blowers.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

I think the "Squirrel cage" fan is one of the quietest designs. The Quadrafire 4100-I has such a fan, and while I haven't yet used the insert I have operated the fan to be sure it works, seemed quiet to me, almost silent on lower speeds. Others may disagree, know better, but I'd suggest this design fan is a plus.

 

[KeithO]

Propain, I today bought a Pacific Energy T5 for $1600 all told (I already have a suitably placed Class A chimney). If you send me a PM I can put you in touch with a very reasonable stove dealer in Toledo OH. The stove I bought cost $600 less than the best offer I found in Jackson / Chelsea and they had it in stock too (a rare thing today). The dealer has Hearthstone stoves (soapstone), Jotul, Pacific Energy, a few VC, Napoleon, Drolet and a slew of other inexpensive stoves.

Keith

I am looking for a fireplace insert to burn wood. These are my priorities:

1) Efficient: Puts out a lot of heat for as little wood burned.
2) Quiet. I don't want roaring fans or other noise produced by cheap units.
3) Clean burning
4) Large viewing window
5) Built to last

I expect to pay no more than $5,000 fully installed w/ insulated stainless flue liner - out the door.

All help is very much appreciated.

Propain