RE: FirefighterJake screws up . . . and breaks one of Brother Bart's Cardinal Rules . . . which is w

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firefighterjake

Minister of Fire
Jul 22, 2008
19,588
Unity/Bangor, Maine
Yes . . . I've done it . . . I plead mea culpa . . . I messed up . . . and I'm here to confess my crime to all of hearth.com . . . mainly to let folks learn from my mistake.

Everything was going well yesterday . . . well actually it wasn't . . . my attempt to put plastic shrink wrap on a window looked as though a four year old drunk on Nyquil had attempted the project, I think I was higher than a 20-year old college student at Phish concert from inhaling too many mineral spirit vapors from attempting to remove vinyl floor glue from on top of my no-glue vinyl tiles instead of underneath the tiles (word of advice . . . I am not pleased with the Armstrong tiles from Lowes) and I never managed to even start another half dozen or so projects on my to do list . . . but those are stories for another time.

In any case, I had a fire going most of the day and things were going nicely. Shortly before 10 p.m. I put the last load on the fire, got things humming along nicely and then dampered down . . . and things were all hunky dorey until the split rolled down to the glass and came to rest.

Now this is where I should have and could have left things well enough alone . . . and just let everything run its course . . . but when the split rolled to the glass (usually I keep the splits away from the glass to keep it from gunking up) I figured at this point the damage was done and I might as well load up the firebox to the gills . . . with the two-year seasoned, small splits I had in the woodbox . . . even though the fire was now in the Bowels of Hell phase of burning . . .

For a brief second I swear I could have heard Brother Bart's voice chiding me to not throw on more wood when the fire was raging . . . but the appeal of waking up the next morning to lots and lots of coals was just too much . . . and so I added the wood . . . and everything was fine . . . for a few minutes.

And then the temps started to rise . . . of course I immediately shut the air control all the way to retain the heat in the stove . . . but by this point the fire was already going and there was no stopping or slowing things down . . . both the stove temp and flue temp continued to increase. Now I'm no pansy, but the rising temps soon approached the "oh crap" stage and I stupidly forgot that I had the means and tools at my disposal to shut things down quickly . . . by simply blocking the incoming air . . . but in my haste I forgot that very simple and plain fact.

Instead I first tried the Pook technique of tossing in a damp newspaper . . . I can say that this had a slight effect as it briefly lowered the temp on the flue and stove . . . but within minutes the temps were back and close to the "danger zone" -- in other words close to 1000 degrees F on the probe thermometer and in the mid to high 500s on the stove top (600s-725 on the flue collar).

I tried a second newspaper insert . . . I think it was an insert selling Ford pick ups . . . no exploding Ford Explorers though. This had the same temporary effect. The temps dropped for a bit and then went right back up. Finally, I hit upon the idea of cooling things down with the fan pointed right at the stove.

I don't know if the fan actually worked to help disperse the heat or if it simply cooled the thermometers, but within a few minutes the temps dipped back down to the high, but acceptable limits for me . . . not enough for me to head to bed, but enough that my heartbeat and adrenaline levels returned to near normal.

I haven't given my stove a thorough look over yet, but I suspect I'm OK. The flue temp never reached over 1,000 degrees, although it was high for a long time . . . I think (and hope) the effect of the fan kept the temp down enough to stay under 1,000 degrees F. Surprisingly the stove itself did pretty well . . . it was at the higher limits, but it didn't hit any crazy temps -- except for the flue collar. I won't lie and say the snaps and pops didn't alarm me a bit . . . and I smelled an oily, diesel like smell which at first I couldn't place (it wasn't a paint curing smell) until I realized this morning that it may have been the oil in the soapstone slab on top heating up to a higher temp than normal. However, I hope and think I'm OK.

Lessons learned . . . for me . . . and others.

1) Learn where the air intakes are . . . and be ready to block these off if the stove starts to truly run-away from you.
2) More importantly . . . heed the words of Reverend Brother Bart and only load in the cycle when it is appropriate -- at the coaling stage.

I know better . . . I've never done such a thing and even when I was opening that door to put in some more wood I knew this was a "rule" I should not break . . . and yet I did it anyways. I guess in retropspect I'm just lucky that the only damage was some lost sleep and not a damaged stove or stove pipe.

Live and learn.
 
The manual for the oslo indicates an optimum surface temp of 400-600 degrees. Why were you sweating mid to high 500s?

i shut down my jotul last year in a pinch by stuffing the air intake with foil.....It's effective.
 
500 stovetop doesn't sound that hot to me... Was it the flue temps that had you worried? Excuse my ignorance!
 
Yeah, nothing happened that would have alarmed me in the least. Sounds like a typical burn day at the BK homestead. 600º external pipe temps (would be 1000-1200º internal) for 30-45 minutes, stove top 650-750ºF. Sounds like the very upper edge of normal for any stove to me.
 
Yup. I ignored a related rule: Never open the ashpan door to heat the coals for a quicker re-light.

If you do -- even resolving to limit the time to maybe 10 seconds -- eventually something will make you leave it ajar. It WILL happen. You will need to walk away for some unexpected emergency or another. 'Scared the heck out of me. (I got away with a hairline crack of the floor of the inner box, which has remained completely stable. But, never again.)
 
Jake, thanks for posting this if only to show that even us with much experience can still make some dumb mistakes. However, it also shows that experience allows us to keep our cool to get the situation under hand.

I agree you probably did not harm to the stove but perhaps a bit to your ego. I would not have been concerned about the stove top temperatures but with the flue temperatures going up high that would concern me a lot. As for you adding wood when the stove was that hot, you definitely should have known better and I'm betting you learned much from that error. I don't know if removing that extra soapstone would have helped much but probably would have tried to remove it to let the heat dissipate more rapidly.

As for the wood falling into the glass, that is one reason I like the Woodstock design so that can't happen.


All in all, I'm very glad this worked out well in the end for you. Caulk it up to one more lessen learned. I will no doubt be our last.
 
Other than reaching the upper limits of stack temp - that didn't scare me a bit. Sissy. ;-P

And to the poster above - using the ash pan door for start up air...I preach it for a reason (there are others on the forum that do as well.).
 
Fire Dept: 911, what's your emergency?

Caller: Hi, This is uh... Jake...Uh,... can you send a truck over here...I know, I know. Yeah, I know. I know I work for you...My wood stove is acting up and I, uh... Yes, I am a regular hearth.com poster... I know, I know... Yes..., I did the wet paper towel in the baggie thing..., I know, I know.....

Fire Dept: Ok, Were on our way, after I call everybody and tell them what you did.




I'm sorry, but I couldn't help making light out of it. :lol: Glad everything calmed down after a while.
 
For other Oslo owners, the intake is on the bottom at the rear of the stove.

Thanks for sharing Jake.
 
Well, obviously your wood is too dry... this never would have happened if you burned unseasoned wood, like we do.

'scuse me while I go beg my husband's forgiveness for being such a nag and ask him to hose down the wood pile. %-P


I see there is still a hiring freeze in the smilies dept- can't we offer some early retirement?
 
For other Oslo owners, the intake is on the bottom at the rear of the stove.
It is? I'll have to look. I thought it was just where the silver lever sticks out the front. My stove does make an air-sucking sound when it's going good, it does seem like that's too small a hole to make that sound....
 
Backwoods Savage said:
Jake, thanks for posting this if only to show that even us with much experience can still make some dumb mistakes. However, it also shows that experience allows us to keep our cool to get the situation under hand.

I agree you probably did not harm to the stove but perhaps a bit to your ego. I would not have been concerned about the stove top temperatures but with the flue temperatures going up high that would concern me a lot. As for you adding wood when the stove was that hot, you definitely should have known better and I'm betting you learned much from that error. I don't know if removing that extra soapstone would have helped much but probably would have tried to remove it to let the heat dissipate more rapidly.

As for the wood falling into the glass, that is one reason I like the Woodstock design so that can't happen.


All in all, I'm very glad this worked out well in the end for you. Caulk it up to one more lessen learned. I will no doubt be our last.

Just curious...... why is a flue temp just under 1000 degrees a cause for "a lot " of concern (unless you have a lot of creosote build-up)? My Condar Fluegard thermometer starts the "red zone" at 900 degrees and goes all the way to the extreme reading of 1800 degrees. I would agree that the 1800 reading should just say "run for your life", but, although it is not where you normally want it to be, 900-1000 degrees doesn't seem to me to be off- the-charts hot. Mine is 500-800 often and has climbed higher on a few occasions. I thought it was good to run hot sometimes to reduce the buildup of creosote.
 
Scarey, isn't it?
devil-smiley-029.gif


I did it last year. I'll never forget it.

Glad everything turned out okey doke :)
 
I had my Jotul up to 625 for a brief time the other night. I wasn't worried but I kept my eye on it. 700 and climbing I would worry about. I like the 550 range. As for the intake. Look around the back on the bottom. You will see a hole. I have a custom made ball of tinfoil that is ready to jamb in there if there is ever an emergency.
 
Jake did you load n/s or e/w?


zap


Glad things are good and nothing got away.
 
Mad Tom said:
I have a custom made ball of tinfoil that is ready to jamb in there if there is ever an emergency.

That's a good call. [goes to kitchen in search of foil]
 
I had a tan that would make John Boehner proud after I had to suit up in a army field jacket to keep my arms from being toast and reach back in the back of that fireplace and plug the secondary air intake in the 30-NC the only time I tossed a load on top of hot coals in it when it was over five hundred.

A lot of swearing. But mostly swearing "Never again!". That sucker was at seven hundred and showing no inclination to not head for the the melt down hall of fame.
 
i know the feeling all to well. when i had the dutchwest neverburn! i would be in the back of the stove with sweat dripping down plugging the thing up cuz that baby was going nuclear. scary scary. but that would also be after just a normal load. not even doing anything stupid. thing would just take off. countless nights after midnight goign to bed feeling like i ran a marathon and wife yelling at me sayin where were u.
 
I know the temptation - time to turn in and I did not time the last load very well, so I want to top off the stove so that I have plenty of coals in the morning. Last winter, I also learned my lesson. Definitely scary when the stove temps take off and everything in the stove is flaming. So I learned the importance of planning the reload. Timing is everything...
 
....thought this was going to be a "$%$#@, I broke the glass" story.
 
Green Energy said:
I know the temptation - time to turn in and I did not time the last load very well, so I want to top off the stove so that I have plenty of coals in the morning. Last winter, I also learned my lesson. Definitely scary when the stove temps take off and everything in the stove is flaming. So I learned the importance of planning the reload. Timing is everything...

A guy that doesn't post here anymore said it best. "The art of wood burning is timing the coal bed for the overnight load.".

Keeping a few small pieces around for the times that the timing is off is priceless.

And thanks for posting Jake. Saves a few new burners in EPA stoves from getting the crap scared out of them. Watching secondary burn is kinda fun but it can turn into serious fear when it turns into an inferno in your living room.
 
No problems with my Blaze Kind doing anything like that. I have run it to 700-800* stove top temps but that is only about 3/4 of the way on the factory guage.
 
southbalto said:
The manual for the oslo indicates an optimum surface temp of 400-600 degrees. Why were you sweating mid to high 500s?

+1 Sounds like a normal burn to me (although this doesn't excuse what you did ;-) )

In fact, I have the Morso cruising at 1000 °F internal right now.
 
Since the F400 air intake is similarly placed like the F500, I liked the idea of a ball of tin foil kept handy in close proximity to the stove. Then I realized that this beast we have called a cat would soon have the foil ball placed in one of the back bedrooms.

I'm thinking now one of those hardware store magnets, say 2"-3" diameter, 1/4" thick would suffice. And I'll keep it stuck to the stove right next to the air inlet.

Any other ideas out there?
 
I run my F 400 to 650 stove top virtually everyday. I can't even tell you how many times it has overshot into the 700's. When it goes into 800+ range, yeah I get nervous. However, I have also found that if you kill the primary air, the stove will back off. There is a momentary delay and you have to keep your cool while the stove continues to heat up, but after a few minutes the temp starts to come back down.

The most effective tool I use to cool off the stove quick is the blower. If I turn the blower on full, the stove will drop 100°F in a matter of minutes.
 
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