Stove too Hot...click here.

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Stax

Stax

Minister of Fire
Dec 22, 2010
941
Southeastern PA
In my quest to observe secondaries, I mistakenly listened to a forum member here about getting my stove to run at a higher temperature. I believe my stove was running at around 450-500 when I raked a small bed of coals to the front and loaded 4 splits to the box cross stacked. Within 15-30 minutes my box was at 740 as taken by the IR gun. Panicking...I ran here. Searched "how to cool my stove" and scanned replies of how to do so. Luckily, their tips worked to cool my box some 200 degrees in a matter of a half hour. As I was searching, I wished at had the phone numbers of some senior members to call them and ask immediate advice. Maybe this link should be a sticky? Talk about panicking. My manual states that 800 degrees is considered overfiring. I hope I didn't damage my unit. Anyone looking to share some understanding?

Furthermore, I think it's generally bad advice to tell someone to, "load her up". Each stove, each member's situation are different. What may work for your stove, may OVERFIRE someone elses and put that person and their house at risk!
 
P.S. The more I think about it, I'm not sure if the box was at the above temp, could have been lower.
 
I doubt you've done any damage to your stove at that temp. Manuals usually give conservative numbers and you were below that requirement and admittedly you may have even been further below than that. Sounds like you've figured out how to get a good hot burn on your stove, now you may just need to understand how to dial it back to control a bit better.

P.S. I imagine every member on this forum routinely packs their stove to the gills (loads er up) during routine 24/7 burning. I know I do.
 
An admitted greenhorn, I can't imagine packing my box after seeing 4 splits on a bed of coals.
 
I'm just re-reading your first post, where you said you reloaded at 450 degrees and just had a "few" coals. Where are you getting your temperatures from, I can't imagine having a temp of 450 with only a few coals.

My guess is you're taking your temperatures from the wrong spot and you were just surprised by "the gates of hell" look that only a properly run wood stove can give you.
 
Lol..."the gates of hell"...Space, I can't exactly recall my temps. I have a temps situation. My Rutland is place top left on the box, beneath my faceplate grills, right where the blower emits air. It's kind of like the only place on the box I can put it. During the "gates of hell" situation, it was reading 530, while the IR was reading (pointed at coals) 740. My IR gives me way hotter temps in the box (pointed at coals) that my Rutland does on the box. Then if I point the IR right next to Rutland, it will read approximately 100 degrees lower. Umm...yeah...don't know what to say.
 
I just looked up your stove, and I'm not sure where I'd put a temp gauge either. Suffice to say pointing it at the coals is certainly not an appropriate gauge. You want to try and get a reading from the middle of the stove just about halfway between the exhaust exit and the left or right side of the stove on the top. To complicate it further you need to get it on the actual stove and hot the sheet metal shroud that the blower pushes air through

Someone with your model may be along to help out more.

Your manual might have fire buliding instructions to follow, but here is my procedure: (someone with your exact insert could give you a better idea on this particular model)

1. Insert Blower off, Air full open, load up the stove as full as possible
2. Wait for the "gates of hell" appearance and let the stove run like that for about 10 minutes (usually about 30 - 40 minutes total)
3. Turn insert blower on and push the air in about 1/2. Let run for 5 - 10 min.
4. Push the air in to about 2/3 closed let run for about 5 min. or a little less
5. Push the air in to final spot (depends on how much heat I need

You should see good secondary action once you are done and a lot of heat should be coming off that Lopi. If your dog or cat isn't constantly laying in front of it, its not hot enough. Your times may vary depending on how fast your stove heats up. My guess is it will be faster than what I have.

Burn On!
 
I have seen 800 right in the middle on the top several times. Doesn't bother me a bit. Sure I take actions to cool it off but I'm not worried about the stove. Now the stack yes. I have a Rutland on the stove pipe and that is where my main concern is.
 
The stove doesn't sound like it got too hot. As pointed out in the other threads, you don't read the stove temperature off the coals in the firebox.
 
BeGreen said:
The stove doesn't sound like it got too hot. As pointed out in the other threads, you don't read the stove temperature off the coals in the firebox.
Click to expand...

Exactly BeGreen....I mentioned that to him in another post.....but I don't blame him for his nervousness.....we've all been there a time or two, he's just being cautious and I don't blame him one bit for being that way......when it is your house and your stove and your situation, we would all do the same thing.....lol.....
 
Just for the hell of it, I opened the door to our furnace and shot temps of the firebrick in the firebox, around 900*. Even there I wasn't even close to a hot fire. It sounds to me also that things were okay. For me when first upgrading to a EPA unit with glass, looking at the bowels of hell was scary. I now realize it's normal and no damage will happen. It just takes time to get comfortable. You stove guys are lucky, I have no way of measuring temps in our furnace other than flue, and those are lower than a stove.
 
laynes69 said:
Just for the hell of it, I opened the door to our furnace and shot temps of the firebrick in the firebox, around 900*. Even there I wasn't even close to a hot fire. It sounds to me also that things were okay. For me when first upgrading to a EPA unit with glass, looking at the bowels of hell was scary. I now realize it's normal and no damage will happen. It just takes time to get comfortable. You stove guys are lucky, I have no way of measuring temps in our furnace other than flue, and those are lower than a stove.
Click to expand...

Didn't realize they built EPA stoves back in 1950.......lol......
 
Scotty Overkill said:
laynes69 said:
Just for the hell of it, I opened the door to our furnace and shot temps of the firebrick in the firebox, around 900*. Even there I wasn't even close to a hot fire. It sounds to me also that things were okay. For me when first upgrading to a EPA unit with glass, looking at the bowels of hell was scary. I now realize it's normal and no damage will happen. It just takes time to get comfortable. You stove guys are lucky, I have no way of measuring temps in our furnace other than flue, and those are lower than a stove.
Click to expand...

Didn't realize they built EPA stoves back in 1950.......lol......
Click to expand...
BTW I was being a smartass, I realize that is the model number....just sounded funny!....;-)
 
I'm very much in the same situation as you Stax as far as experience w/ a new insert etc, so I have alot of the same questions and concerns.

I know it's hard to see all parts of the stove especially yours, since the vent is covered w/ a grate. Still unless things started glowing I don't think you damaged anything.

Not sure how I could load my insert chock full like some do here and not overfire. Even a 1/2-3/4 load with fan cranked and air down puts on a hot (650-700) impressive show.

Nothing glowing that I can see which is why I posed a question about my thermo and IR readings in a different thread.

The hot temps take some getting used to though don't they?
 
If your stove does not have a bunch of air leaks you should be able to load it all the way up.
I load my BK with probably 60-80 lbs of wood.
After I'm in cruise there is no flame..that cat is glowing keeping my stove top around 350- 550..depending.
I understand it's a little diff with burn tubes..just glad I went cat.
 
BK and cat stoves run differently than non-cat stoves. They can burn smoldering smoke efficiently so stuffing them and letting the cat take over is practical. With a non-cat, unless one is careful to not put a full charge of wood on a very hot coal bed. The sudden outgassing of wood gas can overfire the stove.
 
My old Magnolia would over fire on a full load. There was no way (without modding the stove) to shut the air down full enough. So I kinda know where he is coming from. Other members have posted before about runaway stoves on heavy loads.
 
Stax said:
Lol..."the gates of hell"...Space, I can't exactly recall my temps. I have a temps situation. My Rutland is place top left on the box, beneath my faceplate grills, right where the blower emits air. It's kind of like the only place on the box I can put it. During the "gates of hell" situation, it was reading 530, while the IR was reading (pointed at coals) 740. My IR gives me way hotter temps in the box (pointed at coals) that my Rutland does on the box. Then if I point the IR right next to Rutland, it will read approximately 100 degrees lower. Umm...yeah...don't know what to say.
Click to expand...

Good thing you didn't get a real reading on the temp of the coals, you would have called the fire dept.

The coals can easily reach 1500 degrees. taking their temperature is meaningless.
 
BeGreen said:
BK and cat stoves run differently than non-cat stoves. They can burn smoldering smoke efficiently so stuffing them and letting the cat take over is practical. With a non-cat, unless one is careful to not put a full charge of wood on a very hot coal bed. The sudden outgassing of wood gas can overfire the stove.
Click to expand...
Well I guess that's not good ..to me it's not a good design if you can't cut the air to the tubes.
A stove should never be built that just because you load it to much it runs away. That is if you have the primary down and a damper somewhat closed if you have one.
I'll admit when I put the cat bk in I put my pipe damper in anyways even though they say you shouldn't..but I had burnt over 20 years with the non cat bk and was nervous about not having a damper.
I just didn't trust a cat stove because I never had one till now.
After a full season of burning with the new stove I can say I never have used it though.
I would never go back to non cat.
 
BeGreen said:
BK and cat stoves run differently than non-cat stoves. They can burn smoldering smoke efficiently so stuffing them and letting the cat take over is practical. With a non-cat, unless one is careful to not put a full charge of wood on a very hot coal bed. The sudden outgassing of wood gas can overfire the stove.
Click to expand...

Which brings up the question. Why do they not design the stoves with an emergency shutdown? There should be a means to suffocate the fire if needed.
 
woodmiser said:
BeGreen said:
BK and cat stoves run differently than non-cat stoves. They can burn smoldering smoke efficiently so stuffing them and letting the cat take over is practical. With a non-cat, unless one is careful to not put a full charge of wood on a very hot coal bed. The sudden outgassing of wood gas can overfire the stove.
Click to expand...

Which brings up the question. Why do they not design the stoves with an emergency shutdown? There should be a means to suffocate the fire if needed.
Click to expand...


I keep these around just in case.

http://www.chimfex.com/

chimfex_r7_c2.jpg
 
Wow $38 bucks each
 
Why do they not design the stoves with an emergency shutdown?
Click to expand...
Because too many people would use the "emergency" setting to get an all-night smolder. EPA allows the air to be shut only as far as the stove will burn cleanly. Some folks with accessible air intakes on non-cat stoves cover/plug the holes with aluminum foil to get more control of the burn. . .
 
$27 for mine.Also got me a tube of creosote medicine.lol I'm decked out now.Extingushers,detectors (both kinds) and the new Chimfex.They make good christmas presents
 
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