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800-850+ degree temps

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Hogwildz, Dec 28, 2006.

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  1. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    I am finding at night when I fill my Summit full for overnight, after the secondary kicks in, about an hour or so later the thermometer is 800-850- pegged for an hour or so, then usually drops to between 600-700 degrees. This entire time is with the air intake set all the way to low, and the blower going full blast.
    The thermometer is an Imperial magnetic. Mounted on the face of the insert, centered just above the front door. The door lip does overlap the bottom of the thermometer, but does not touch it or close on it. The only other alternatives are one of the top front corners near the door. But I am thinking center is more accurate then sides.
    I am concerned if this is too hot, and I really have no way to regulate with intake air down already. Nothing anywhere including the inner upper baffle get anywhere near cherry or glowing. I am new to this and would rather be concerned than blow it off and have my new insert go to sh-t.
    The Summit does seem happy and pumping heat well at anywheres from 450- the 800+, secondary seems to kick in about 450+ and more when I shut the air intake down, although I only see the streams for a few minutes then it slowly goes away. Are these temps normal, or should I be concerned. And if so the latter, what can I do to fill the firebox for an overnight burn, and NOT get the temps so high? I have already tried to mix dry wood with a few moist pcs to no avail.
    The chimney liner is s.s. 5' of flex uninsulated from insert outlet to first old clay tile, then double wall insulated rigid to top (21'9" with 1-1/2"overlaps figured in), with 1-1/2' through the top plate & then the cap of course. About 26'9" rough total length all added together.
    Some input would be greatly appreciated, especially from Roo, Willhound and any other Summit owners. But general advice from anyone will also be appreciated, thanks guys.
    Hogz

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  2. Willhound

    Willhound Feeling the Heat

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    Hey Hogz, I PM'd ya back, brother.
  3. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    When ya figure it out guys, tell us about it. Could be happening to other people.
  4. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Hogwildz ,

    I would have to put my thermometer in the same place as yours to give any real input.

    Now my thermometer is on top of the 3/8" steel plate and runs from 375°-450° this time of year ( outside 40° ~ 25° ) When it gets colder ( 25° ~ minus 25° ) i will run the top temp from 475° - 600° .

    I get secondary burn at 350° stove top temp , but again that on a different part of the stove.
    The face of the stove is 1/4" thick steel so I would think the temp is going to show higher than the top temp.
  5. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    First off, I am going to buy another thermometer, just to be sure I didn't get a bum one. Tonight I am going to fill 1/2 dry & 1/2 semi moist.
    I can get a couple or more hours out of a couple med to large splits with good coals. Worse comes to worse I'll have to avoid filling it full.
    Seems like it will be a trial and error thing. Maybe with new liner I have too much draft? Time for some research.
  6. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Ok, lemme ask you this.............. how long can you see your secondary burn visually? Meaning the streams coming from the baffle? Mine lasts usually hmmm a few minutes, then I am assuming as the smoke from the fresh load disperses the secondary is working but not as visual? Or does it "visually" disappear after a certain higher temp?
    Sorry for the newb questions, but after all I am, therfore I ask LOL.
  7. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    I had the same problem last night and posted the same question under my Lopi -strange behavior post. There are some answers there that may help. My owner's manual calls out 800 as the "over fire" limit and voids the warranty at that point. I got it up to 725 last night by surprise. Odd that my problem is so similar.
  8. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Yeah the thinner sides of my stove show around 150 degrees higher than the thicker stove top.
  9. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Sometimes i get a big secondary burn "show" for 3-4 hours and sometimes 15 minutes .
    If i have a few bog coal logs going and put in a bog round/split them i get secondary burn for a log time , if i start off from small coal and a new load i could get SB for 1 hour and then blue flame for over 5 hours.
    I get less secondary burn from harder woods and logs that dont have much bark or no bark.
    When burning Hedge i might get 15 minutes of SB and 8 hours of blue flame.

    This might be your key:

    **** If i rake all my coals to the front of the stove and burn cigar style on a full load i can run longer burn times and less heat .
    **** For more heat i spread the coals out a char the bottom of all the wood and the over all burn time is less as the stove burns hotter.

    Loading all rounds or large pieces will burn longer and less btu per hour than a lot of smaller pieces.
    The hardness of the wood will make a difference. Everything i am burning this year has seasoned 4 years so its not a matter of wet or green wood to get the wood to last longer.

    Also HW , the longer you char your wood load the hotter its going to burn per hour , at minimum char ( not under chared ) the load will burn slower.

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  10. Willhound

    Willhound Feeling the Heat

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    Ya know, HW, Roo might have hit on something in the last line of his post. In the PM's I sent you with my ideas I also forgot to mention that when I do fill her right up for the night, I usually don't let her blast or char for very long at all, sometims not at all. If there is already a good bed of coals, I fill her up and then close the damper right away, therefore keeping the burn low and slow. Maybe try that and see what happens?

    For the benefit of everyone else, my PM's were mostly more questions to HW to get a better idea of what's up. The one main thing I did suggest was to check with the dollar bill test to see if the door is sealing correctly and not letting air in.
  11. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    I had read about your "cigar" burn technique and have been following that example. Alot of my wood is old oak, no bark, this stuff last a long time, but burns really hot. I don't have much lower BTU wood. Mostly oak & maple. What is "bog" coals? or bog round/split? Is this a type of wood? or a term for stage of burn its in?
    I have been continually raking caols forward, some of the wood is so dry though, that they still burn their way back, and not slow as in a cigar fashion. I did get a good burn by front to back in cigar fashion, with a large split of oak on the back east to west. How long should I let the freshly loaded splits "char" before I shut down the air? I think this may be part of my problem, as I think I am letting them char too much and creating a box full or cherry splits. In experinmentation I have let the air open anywheres from 400 to 550 even 600 degrees, then shut down. I think this is also part of my problem. I am going to start shutting air down at 400-450 and see what happens there. I am begining to think I am shutting down way too late thinking I need 500 or so for secondary to kick in. When in reality that is very late and I am creating a fiery inferno before shutting air down.
    So my plan tonight is to cigar, char lightly & shut air down immediately after. It doesn't really get below 400, so char & shut down air. I'll see how that goes.
    I am still going to buy a second thermometer and slide is back into the blower opening flat on top of the insert, with a flashlight I will be able to read it, and it will be on top as centered as I can get it and still read it. I am thinking it will show cooler than the fron mounted one. I'll try and post results once I get some data if its worth anything. Gotta get another thermometer now ;)

  12. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    LOL , The "bog coals" and "bog rounds" is call fat fingers. It should be big and not bog.

    I took a pic of my stove loaded for a long burn , the wood is loaded just for pics , (the stove is cold with no coal)

    This is the size wood i am loading if wanting a log burn time , you can burn big wood in the Summit , the smaller the wood the hotter and or less burn time you can/will get.

    Also HW , Gage your char off of looks and not thermometer temp , I might have the door cracked for a few minutes and then shut the door with the damper wide open then let it burn for maybe 5 or so minutes then close the damper to 60% open for maybe 10 minutes and then damper down after that.

    I ran this stove ( PE summit ) to how much heat i needed for the first year with no thermometer , The only time i look at the thermometer is after the stove has been running for a wile and I'll look to see what its running at out of curiosity. I might look at the thermometer once every other day or so and i still run the stove off of needed heat. I'm a window burner and go off of needed heat and gauge the wood by looks.

    I think running a stove by checking the thermometer all the time is a bad habit , but thats just me.

    Pictured is a 7" across round of Hedge and some 6" across splits of Oak.

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  13. Willhound

    Willhound Feeling the Heat

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    SOB!! WAIL!! CRY!! :bug:
    A Summit with no flame in it!
    Warm where you are right now Roo?

    -20C or about -4F here right now, so mines going 24/7
  14. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    LOL, ok on the Cat fingers.
    I was laying large but will try larger. And leave out any smalls.
    I agree on relying on thermometer. I think its my paranoia that makes me keep looking. If I leave the house, I always have this vision in my head of coming home to a chimney and no house LOL. Guess it takes a while to become confident and comfortable with.
    I think I have def been letting it burn wide open too long. Will try your advice tonight when I load her up.
    I don't have many rounds left, but I do havee big splits. And I will split more big splits when I split the next pile of cuts.
    I agree relying on a thermometer is prolly bad, especially if that thermometer is not accurate.
    Great points, I will try this tonight.
    Thanks gentlemen, You've been of great assistance!!!!

  15. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Cool beans .......... FYI us on what ya come up with.

    There are just so many variables when it comes to wood burning , a few little things can make a big (bog lol ) difference.
  16. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    It got up to 50° F here today so the last log was loaded last night around 2am and the stove top was still 135° F when i took the pictures at a little after 7 pm . Thats called heat with no fire , stored heat in a large mass of steel . ( so i guess you can say the Summit can heat with no fire ) its just that good. ;-)
  17. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Fist pumping in the air...............SUMMIT, SUMMIT, SUMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Let the mudder f'er burn!!!!!!!! LOL
  18. Gunner

    Gunner New Member

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    After someone else said they were running 800+ on the top plate of there summit, I went out and got a thermo for mine. Until then I had been using the probe thermo in the double wall only. 400- 650 stove top is what I have been running lately, got up to 750 tonight from cold start (top down method) then 3 more splits bringing the house up to temp. My probe temps and top temps are usually very close although the probe reacts much quicker...I have no doubt that you could cruise at 700-800 top temp without damaging the stove.
  19. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Well I just stuffed the beast. 1: 7"-8" round Oak, 2 large splits 1 Oak/ 1 Maple that pretty much filled the lower 1/2 to 2/3rds of the box. Well The coal bed is up higher than the front lower plate, last couple logs seemed to last forever. and slid a maybe 12" wide x 4 or 5" thick slab of Oak on top of the 2 splits. As a test, I only charred it for as ong as the door was open, maybe another minute door closed on high, then kicked her down to low & fan blowing full. Temp started at 450, dropped to 400 and 1 small dancing flame on the end of center cigar. so far so good. Observation time.
  20. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Drum roll please ..................................................
  21. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Ok, she dropped like a rock to about 310, I opened the air all the way, vracked the door, let her catch aflame again. let it go a min, shut door cut air to about 25%.
    Secondary was showing. gonna do as is for about 10 mins and then cut air to 0 again. Stay tuned LOL
  22. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Ok, she climbed to 350 held steady after air cut back. Opened back up to about 40% had some orange and blue flame. Let it go like that for about 15 mins. cut her back to no air. right now at 400. I"ll give it another 20-30 mins and see if I can creep her up to 500 or 550. At least I am finding where to slowly raise the temp, rather then flame it out, the cut back, but so much log & split is cherry at that point, theres no turning back.
    I figure after enough trial & error. I will know how long for door cracked, then how long as say full open air, the cut air down to 40ish, then air off. Its the learning curve.
    Unless it skyrockets from this point, then its back to the drawing board LOL.
    So far so good though.
  23. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Still drumming ......................................
  24. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Trial & error, trial & error, got her up to 400, opened up 25% for another 10 min....450, opened full, opened door, squeezed one more log in, shes fuller than full now.
    Shut down air completely, just under 500, if she levels at 500, I'll leave her there for the night. see what the house temp is in the morn & what I have left for burn if any log left at all. Usually have good coals for easy restart. If I need a lil more heat I'll shoot for 550-600 tomorrow night. I'll be up for another hr prolly. WIll post any changes if needed.

    Ok lol, update within an update.
    Opened up once more to just under 50% air intake. another 10 mins roughly. shut air down, some rolling blue & orange flames. I expect to die down as the other times. just under 550. going to ssee if I can hold her there.
    I now know I have to relearn which I am doing now, and figure the steps I did tonight, and shorten them to one or two adjustments. As you stated Roo.
    As of now, unless it spikes, I have learned control.
    If all goes well next couple days. I will post a control post. For any other new burners out there.
    Learned a great deal tonight. And that my previous burning habits sucked.
    Thanks Roo for the tips. I think you gave the perfect advice & scenarios.
  25. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Just over 600 now. A lil worried. will keep an eye on her.
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