Check out Simon Templars pics from May 14. That black robust plate covers the whole top of the interior of the unit. When the installers moved it they said they could tell a huge difference in weight too without the bricks in the new unit compared to moving out the old one with the bricks still in it. I will take a couple of screen shots of it to show more of the interior for you. If there is any sort of defect to your unit I would have it checked out and try to get it replaced if you can. Start fresh with no imperfections so you know for sure your getting the best output along with a stove that will last a good amount of time without falling apart.
Advice / Review need: Regency CI2600 fireplace insert risky & costly?
- Thread starter Yingyang Picasso
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
Check out Simon Templars pics from May 14. That black robust plate covers the whole top of the interior of the unit. When the installers moved it they said they could tell a huge difference in weight too without the bricks in the new unit compared to moving out the old one with the bricks still in it. I will take a couple of screen shots of it to show more of the interior for you. If there is any sort of defect to your unit I would have it checked out and try to get it replaced if you can. Start fresh with no imperfections so you know for sure your getting the best output along with a stove that will last a good amount of time without falling apart.
Wolves1
Minister of Fire
Wolves1
Minister of Fire
One of the reasons people are having problems with the stove burning to fast is when the stove was installed and the flue was but in the installer put the flue to deep in the stove and preventing the by pass from fully closing.
edge-of-the-woods
Feeling the Heat
No the company that installed the stove didn't charge me a dime. I threw them a few bucks cause they had been very helpful along the way at getting me a whole new stove covered under warrantee. I'm looking forward to breaking her in and lighting her up this winter to see the difference. Already got 4 cords or seasoned wood stacked and ready to burn.
Novice question: Can the Regency CI2600 function as a non-catalytic 2-stage wood stove w/blower if the bypass is engaged? Or does it function as a 1-stage, less effecient wood stove? When I say 2-stage, I mean that airflow is diverted such that it gets reburned.
My wife likes the look and size of the CI2600, however we were wondering if it can be operated like the Regency Alterra CI1250 if the bypass is engaged. The CI1250 catalogue states a 77.7% efficiency. If the CI2600 is functioned in catalytic-bypass mode, what would the efficiency be?
Alternately, is it possible to order the CI2600 without the catalytic system?
My wife likes the look and size of the CI2600, however we were wondering if it can be operated like the Regency Alterra CI1250 if the bypass is engaged. The CI1250 catalogue states a 77.7% efficiency. If the CI2600 is functioned in catalytic-bypass mode, what would the efficiency be?
Alternately, is it possible to order the CI2600 without the catalytic system?
With the bypass open the insert would be functioning like a stove out of the 1970s, very inefficient. Regency has made improvements that should remove catalyst worries. AFAIK you can not order this model without the catalyst. Perhaps look at the Hearthstone Clydesdale, Pacific Energy Neo 2.5 or Osburn Matrix for non-cat options.
http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/store/wood-products/wood-inserts/clydesdale-wood-insert
http://www.pacificenergy.net/products/wood/contemporary-inserts/neo-25-insert/
http://www.osburn-mfg.com/en/heaters/matrix-wood-insert
http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/store/wood-products/wood-inserts/clydesdale-wood-insert
http://www.pacificenergy.net/products/wood/contemporary-inserts/neo-25-insert/
http://www.osburn-mfg.com/en/heaters/matrix-wood-insert
Thank you for your response begreen. A few additional questions.
If when the bypass is enganged, the stove has very poor efficiency, how is this unit considered a hybrid wood stove? Instead of 1 part woodstove and 1 part catalytic, it sounds like 1 part fireplace and 1 part catalytic? Perhaps I simply do not understand the nomenclature well enough.
The NEO 2.5 is not nearly as visually appealing as the CI2600, nor CI1250. The Matrix, on the other hand, looks nice/modern, however there is something about its artistic lack of face plate symmetry that is less than ideal. I am torn between the Matrix, CI2600, and CI1250 for look and function.
I have a 3-level split house, with approx. 600 sq. ft. on each level. The fireplace is on the middle level. There are seven stairs rise/fall between the levels. It is understood that the bottom level will not witness the heat benefit of the wood stove. Do you think the CI1250 is sufficient to heat 1300 sq. ft (700 sq. ft on the stove level and 600 sq. ft. 7 stairs up)?
If when the bypass is enganged, the stove has very poor efficiency, how is this unit considered a hybrid wood stove? Instead of 1 part woodstove and 1 part catalytic, it sounds like 1 part fireplace and 1 part catalytic? Perhaps I simply do not understand the nomenclature well enough.
The NEO 2.5 is not nearly as visually appealing as the CI2600, nor CI1250. The Matrix, on the other hand, looks nice/modern, however there is something about its artistic lack of face plate symmetry that is less than ideal. I am torn between the Matrix, CI2600, and CI1250 for look and function.
I have a 3-level split house, with approx. 600 sq. ft. on each level. The fireplace is on the middle level. There are seven stairs rise/fall between the levels. It is understood that the bottom level will not witness the heat benefit of the wood stove. Do you think the CI1250 is sufficient to heat 1300 sq. ft (700 sq. ft on the stove level and 600 sq. ft. 7 stairs up)?
I think there is a confusion in terminology. The bypass when open (disengaged?) it allows the smoke to go directly up the chimney, bypassing the catalyst while the stove's firebox warms up. With the bypass closed (engaged?) the smoke now passes through the catalyst on it's way to the flue. This is when the insert is burning at it's cleanest and most efficient level.
Both the CI 2600 and the CI 1250 will heat the house, but with a notable difference. The smaller insert will not hold a fire as long, but will be better matched for mild weather burning. When it gets very cold out though the house's primary heating system will probably be needed to supplement the heat and the burn times will be shorter, say a reload every 4hrs.. The larger insert on the other hand may be loafing in mild weather. You may even only want to burn shorter hot evening fires and let the insert go out. In cold weather when it gets into the 20s and below you may be able to do 24/7 burning if desired. This is just general advice. There are a lot of variable like the local climate, house insulation, wood quality and dryness and the operator. Where in CA are you located?
Both the CI 2600 and the CI 1250 will heat the house, but with a notable difference. The smaller insert will not hold a fire as long, but will be better matched for mild weather burning. When it gets very cold out though the house's primary heating system will probably be needed to supplement the heat and the burn times will be shorter, say a reload every 4hrs.. The larger insert on the other hand may be loafing in mild weather. You may even only want to burn shorter hot evening fires and let the insert go out. In cold weather when it gets into the 20s and below you may be able to do 24/7 burning if desired. This is just general advice. There are a lot of variable like the local climate, house insulation, wood quality and dryness and the operator. Where in CA are you located?
Grisu
Minister of Fire
First, there is no defined nomenclature or standard. Usually hybrid means that a stove has a secondary burn and a catalyst but that would not keep a manufacturer to call their stove a hybrid for a different reason.
As for the CI2600, in this brochure you will find a pic of the inside on page 3: http://www.regency-fire.com/Files/Brochures/CI2600_Brochure-Low.aspx Note the catalyst on top of the baffle and the bypass under the flue outlet. Open the bypass and the warm air will go right up the flue. Close it and the wood gases travel under the baffle to be burned by the secondary combustion before turning around and passing through the catalyst to complete the combustion. Thus, you don't get a secondary burn stove by leaving the bypass open. You may get one by taking the catalyst out and closing the bypass but I doubt Regency will recommend that.
Interesting. I would have judged the Neo 2.5 to be closer in looks to the CI2600 than the Matrix.
I would have suggested the Large Flush Hybrid from Travis industries (Lopi, Avalaon, and FireplaceXtraordinaire) but that is a lot of stove for 1300 sqft. Still, take a look if you want an alternative.
Thank you guys. Your replies have sparked more questions on my end.
If I run the CI2600 without the catalytic converter, will it have the approx. 78% efficiency of the CI1250? Does the replacement cost of the cat. (say, every 6 years) justify the added 8% efficiency?
The Large Flush Hybrid you noted does look nice as well. I will form a short list and see which my wife prefers. I like Regency because it is local to British Columbia. With the low Canadian dollar, I suspect items from the USA will cost 30% more than they did a year ago.
begreen - I am situated in Victoria, BC, in zone 8b. Most of the winter hovers around 4-7 C (39-45 F), with, perhaps scattered weeks with temperatures below freezing. The only alternate heat source in the house is baseboard electric, which costs quite a bit to operate.
I was hoping that with the larger stove and running it often that the lower level (7 stairs down) will get some benefit from the wood stove, especially since the direction of the fan blows in the direction of the stairs, albiet 22' away.
The NEO 2.5 has a more square feel to it compared to the CI2600, which seems more rectangular in the photos.
If I run the CI2600 without the catalytic converter, will it have the approx. 78% efficiency of the CI1250? Does the replacement cost of the cat. (say, every 6 years) justify the added 8% efficiency?
The Large Flush Hybrid you noted does look nice as well. I will form a short list and see which my wife prefers. I like Regency because it is local to British Columbia. With the low Canadian dollar, I suspect items from the USA will cost 30% more than they did a year ago.
begreen - I am situated in Victoria, BC, in zone 8b. Most of the winter hovers around 4-7 C (39-45 F), with, perhaps scattered weeks with temperatures below freezing. The only alternate heat source in the house is baseboard electric, which costs quite a bit to operate.
I was hoping that with the larger stove and running it often that the lower level (7 stairs down) will get some benefit from the wood stove, especially since the direction of the fan blows in the direction of the stairs, albiet 22' away.
The NEO 2.5 has a more square feel to it compared to the CI2600, which seems more rectangular in the photos.
I don't think the CI2600 was designed to run continuously with the bypass open. I would expect it to be much less than 78% efficient. Call Regency to verify. Victoria is in a mild climate zone. The smaller CI1250 may be sufficient and simpler to operate. How often will the insert be burning? Mostly nights and weekends or 24/7 throughout the winter?
Regardless of which stove is chosen all will require fully seasoned wood. That is hard to get at this late date in the season. Ask the dealer if they know a reputable supplier of seasoned wood.
Regardless of which stove is chosen all will require fully seasoned wood. That is hard to get at this late date in the season. Ask the dealer if they know a reputable supplier of seasoned wood.
begreen, actually, I was refering to using the CI2600 with the cat. unit physically removed, and not engaging the bypass.
I spoke with my wife, she doesn't like the lack of symmetry of the Osburn unit. I wonder if Osburn would make the face plate symmetric for us? Wife says no to the Neo 2.5. Also said no to the unit from Travis Industries because the back plate goes up too high. That unit is also a cat. unit, so if we go cat, we'd just take the CI2600. I will send inquiry to Osburn to see if they have an option for a symmetric faceplate and to Regency to see if they have plans to introduce the CI2600 in a non-cat. style.
I spoke with my wife, she doesn't like the lack of symmetry of the Osburn unit. I wonder if Osburn would make the face plate symmetric for us? Wife says no to the Neo 2.5. Also said no to the unit from Travis Industries because the back plate goes up too high. That unit is also a cat. unit, so if we go cat, we'd just take the CI2600. I will send inquiry to Osburn to see if they have an option for a symmetric faceplate and to Regency to see if they have plans to introduce the CI2600 in a non-cat. style.
Grisu
Minister of Fire
You would still need to engage (close) the bypass to get the potential secondary burn even without the cat. Not sure why you want to do that. The insert will become less efficient, may burn more dirty (= more creosote in your chimney), and Regency may reject any warranty claims if they find out as that is not the intended use of the unit. I also doubt that Regency will come out with a non-cat equivalent. EPA emission limits are just about being reduced and you will see more units with catalysts on the market to meet those requirements.
You may have an aversion against cat units (did you ever burn in one?) but given that your wife is dead-set on the CI2600 design you may not have much of a choice. Given your moderate winter temps the Morso unit BeGreen suggested should be an option. It may not heat your home completely all the time but will put a serious dent in your electric bill.
I had an installer come by today. He said the CI2600 functions like the CI1250 when bypassing the catalytic unit. Is he mistaken?
Grisu
Minister of Fire
I spoke with technical services at Regency this afternoon. They said that the CI2600 will run like a poor efficiency wood stove [if run in cat-bypass mode] in that the emissions do not get reburned at all. This unit does not have a secondary burn stage (aside from the catalytic unit) like the non-cat stoves do. This may put an end to our CI2600 endevours.
There is a model of the Osburn Matrix which has symmetrical faceplate panels, it is the Enerzone Destination 2.3, however they took some of the flushness away from the faceplate which my wife does not approve of. http://www.enerzone-intl.com/en/heaters/destination-23-i-wood-insert
I urged Regency to modularize their CI2600 design so that the cat. unit could be replaced with a conventional secondary reburn cartridge.
My concerns with the cat. unit are as follows:
1) High cost of replacement. If I live another 50 years with this stove as the primary heat source, that is, say, 5-15 replacement units will be required. Does that justify an extra 8% in efficiency compared to a non-cat stove?
2) If Regency goes under and cat replacement units are no longer available.
3) The cat. unit fails during winter and what if a) I cannot afford the replacement at such time, e.g. perhaps I am retired on fixed income, b) the time to obtain the replacement is excessively long, c) Regency is out of stock. If any of these apply, the $250/month cost to heat by electricity adds to the overall ownership cost of this stove.
There is a model of the Osburn Matrix which has symmetrical faceplate panels, it is the Enerzone Destination 2.3, however they took some of the flushness away from the faceplate which my wife does not approve of. http://www.enerzone-intl.com/en/heaters/destination-23-i-wood-insert
I urged Regency to modularize their CI2600 design so that the cat. unit could be replaced with a conventional secondary reburn cartridge.
My concerns with the cat. unit are as follows:
1) High cost of replacement. If I live another 50 years with this stove as the primary heat source, that is, say, 5-15 replacement units will be required. Does that justify an extra 8% in efficiency compared to a non-cat stove?
2) If Regency goes under and cat replacement units are no longer available.
3) The cat. unit fails during winter and what if a) I cannot afford the replacement at such time, e.g. perhaps I am retired on fixed income, b) the time to obtain the replacement is excessively long, c) Regency is out of stock. If any of these apply, the $250/month cost to heat by electricity adds to the overall ownership cost of this stove.
Begreen - I did in fact. The standard unit, without blower, looked acceptable enough to present to the wife, but then I looked at how the unit looks with the blower and desided it wouldn't be worth the effort to trouble her. It looks like it is taller than it is wide in that photo and has the appearance of an oven door. It also mentions 50,000 BTU/hr, which is the same as the Regency CI1250, however the CI1250 looks better.
I am reconsidering the NEO 1.6 or 2.5 again. I took some reasurements, and my existing firebox will just fit the NEO 2.5. It as if they designed the NEO 2.5 to fit my firebox just nice. I spoke with some sales person and he claimed it was the best bang for the buck and is a fantastic performer. What we do not care for is how the stove door sticks out further than the face plate. The CI1250 has the stove door flush with the faceplate. My wife wants something that can heat the house and look like a modern flush gas fireplace, but be a wood stove. Thus far, the CI2600 does that for her, but I do not want the cat. The location of our fireplace is the focal point of the whole interior of the house. It is not a tucked away lower level fireplace. I wish it was. We only have one fireplace and the unit needs to match the modern appeal of the house.
I am reconsidering the NEO 1.6 or 2.5 again. I took some reasurements, and my existing firebox will just fit the NEO 2.5. It as if they designed the NEO 2.5 to fit my firebox just nice. I spoke with some sales person and he claimed it was the best bang for the buck and is a fantastic performer. What we do not care for is how the stove door sticks out further than the face plate. The CI1250 has the stove door flush with the faceplate. My wife wants something that can heat the house and look like a modern flush gas fireplace, but be a wood stove. Thus far, the CI2600 does that for her, but I do not want the cat. The location of our fireplace is the focal point of the whole interior of the house. It is not a tucked away lower level fireplace. I wish it was. We only have one fireplace and the unit needs to match the modern appeal of the house.
Correct and you would probably burn up the stove quickly.
No it does not have a separate burn stage but it does have a secondary burn tube to help with the combustion of the gasses.
There is no traditional cartridge it would mean a complete redesign of the firebox.
Regency does not make the cat condor does and if they go under you wont be able to get a cat for any stove for the most part.
You can still burn it if the cat stops working it will not be as efficient but it will heat in a pinch.
I am not trying to sway you towards this stove but many of your concerns are unfounded
Grisu
Minister of Fire
I would assume 25 to 30 years of service life from a modern insert and take anything beyond that as bonus. (Heck, same would be true for this body.
) Thus, you would be looking at maybe 5 cat replacements. Have you asked regency how much they cost? In the large scheme of things you are looking at a few $ per month.Regency does not make them but suppliers like Condar. For many off-market stoves replacement cats are still available. With tighter EPA regs you will see more and more cat stoves. Thus, I doubt cat manufacturers will be going under any time soon.
Simple: Buy an extra one now and just keep it in a closet until you need it. Plus, rarely does a cat die from one day to the other. You will notice that it does not get as hot as it should way before it is completely gone. The rest is simply proper treatment of a cat stove like not burning any crap in it and opening the bypass before opening the door.
Now, if you would have said you are concerned about the negative experiences regarding the early editions of the insert I would have been with you but your concerns about cat stoves could be similarly voiced about any stove. Even a secondary burn stove will need at some point new burn tubes, new baffle, new gaskets etc. when burned regularly for 30 years.
Thank you for your input. I do have further concerns about the cat units than what I listed, particularly with the increased sensitivity to the burn material and my kids operating the unit. A non-cat unit has less potential for issues, all things considered. The CI2600, CI1250, and Osburn Matrix are our final shortlists.
Do you know how far out of the firebox, that is the direction into the room, it is permitted to install a wood stove insert? Part of this work is to redesign the whole fireplace and we would like the built-in shelving to be flush with the new ledger stones. To do this, we need the stones to be 3 3/4" deeper than they are currently. Is there a firebox extender I'd need?
Do you know how far out of the firebox, that is the direction into the room, it is permitted to install a wood stove insert? Part of this work is to redesign the whole fireplace and we would like the built-in shelving to be flush with the new ledger stones. To do this, we need the stones to be 3 3/4" deeper than they are currently. Is there a firebox extender I'd need?
I live in Maryland. After having chimney cleaned was told that the liner is cracked. Wanted $3100 to fix chimney or can have the CI2600 installed w/ a stainless steel 6" liner wrapped in a ceramic wool blanket kit, seal around the liner at top w/ top plate & storm collar and cap reinstalled, for $5550. Questions: Does the price of $5550 sound correct? Is there anything else I should have them install when inserting the CI2600? Thanks
Last edited:
Grisu
Minister of Fire
Welcome to the forum!
The one thing that sounds to be missing is a damper sealing block-off plate: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/ That will ensure the heat stays in the house and is more important IMHO than insulating the top.
Without knowing details it is hard to say whether the quote is within reason or not. It certainly does not sound outlandish. There are also plenty other inserts out there that would heat your home; did the sweep offer you some more options?
As any EPA-approved stove the CI2600 needs dry wood with less than 20% internal moisture to burn well. It is rare that you can buy that from a firewood seller as it usually requires stacking the split wood in a spot where it gets lots of wind and sun for ~2 years. Do you already have some dry wood for burning this winter?
The one thing that sounds to be missing is a damper sealing block-off plate: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/ That will ensure the heat stays in the house and is more important IMHO than insulating the top.
Without knowing details it is hard to say whether the quote is within reason or not. It certainly does not sound outlandish. There are also plenty other inserts out there that would heat your home; did the sweep offer you some more options?
As any EPA-approved stove the CI2600 needs dry wood with less than 20% internal moisture to burn well. It is rare that you can buy that from a firewood seller as it usually requires stacking the split wood in a spot where it gets lots of wind and sun for ~2 years. Do you already have some dry wood for burning this winter?
- Status
