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Another cracked PE insert replaced

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by jqgs214, Sep 27, 2011.

  1. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Hate to say this, but I truly believe there is a design issue. All that beefed up front on the inserts seems to put stress in these crack areas. Same spots in every case it seems, as is mine also.
    I had a certified union welder that works on buildings & super structures weld mine, and it still cracked at the face again. So you may get it welded, but keep an eye out for the cracks to return.
    I am disappointed in these issues and the way they are being handled. I love my insert, but having known this before I bought it, I would have bought another brand. If this was a cheap China pc of chit I would expect these issues, but these ain't cheap, and are supposed to be made with quality and pride. Remember the Auto makers recent nose dives causing them needing bailed out. That was largely do to letting quality slip, and costs rise. Sooner or later it is going to bite PE in the ass. Now is the time to go over and beyond. The only real way to save face and stand out, is to check each issues with each owner and if legit, replace the damn thing and show flying colors. Otherwise, we might as well have bought a VC. No offense to VC owners.

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  2. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I have always wondered about that "floating firebox" stuff PE talks about. Since the inserts seem to be the ones crapping out perhaps that sucker don't float in the insert configuration. Back in 2006 we had good fun throwing rocks back and forth with PE owners and us lowly box store stove burners but I never expected to be hearing this stuff about those stoves. Hell, if they had shorter legs on a Summit I would have bought one. And probably had no problems. This all seems to be happening with inserts. And not the usual thing of folks only showing up here after they have a problem. Virtually every one of them are stoves belonging to long time members.

    And there is one Summit insert out there that cracked last year and belongs to a member that asked me not to talk about it here.
  3. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    Hearth being what it is, you would think Craig might be able to talk PE into have a rep come on here and talk about the issues. It would be good PR and give both parties a better understanding of what is going on.
  4. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Ain't gonna happen. No manufacturer is gonna talk about liability issues online. My first 30 was a mess but you didn't see Mike talking about it here.

    Speaking of that stuff. I used to have a world wide call center working for me. One of the first things you teach is to never volunteer anything. Let them tell you what they want and then deal with it from there. And always look like you are doing something.

    Don't be shy about telling them what you want them to do. Don't be nasty about it, don't tell them you are going to smear their brand, don't say bad things about their mother, just tell them what you feel you need done.
  5. iceman

    iceman Minister of Fire

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    Yes the majority seems to be inserts, but it has to be a design flaw.. is there so much air going around the entire insert that the front gets to hot?
    Doubt it. Pe says that the reported temps are fine for the insert and it can handle some more... What do we have in common? Some burn hotter and others don't.. but yet cracks... I checked my stove last year for cracks... None .. now all the sudden they are there? .. they weren't there in Feb.. so some time after... When I wasn't running it as hard...
    There must be more stoves as they are aware .. Prolly just not members here.
    This is going to be interesting...
  6. krex1010

    krex1010 Minister of Fire

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    As an owner of a pacific insert I am watching reading this thread with a great deal of angst. My insert was installled in June of 2010. Not really sure how to determine when my stove was made. Does it seem like mist of these issues were in stoves made around 2005-2007? How long did it take for these cracks to show up? To the OP, the first pic, I know you described once where that crack is located but I am having trouble picturing the location. I'm not sure if the area around the door frame on my stove is a bit different than yours, but is that an external crack?
  7. jimbom

    jimbom Combustion Analyzer

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    :mad:
  8. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    As an owner of three VC's, He's right. Their customer service and quality control was horrendous for several years. It appears to be better at this point, though.
  9. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Personally I think any wood stove warranty is only good to be used to light the first fire. Any one of them can hide behind that over-fire disclaimer. "We didn't mess up. You did."
  10. Shane

    Shane Minister of Fire

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    You used to have to go to a 2 week training course at the factory to be a VC dealer back in the 80's.
  11. karl

    karl Minister of Fire

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    Take the $150.00 from and them and then they can't. They have already admitted culpability.
  12. Frostbit

    Frostbit Feeling the Heat

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    $150 for repair is a poor sidestep to PE's stated warranty. The number of PE inserts cracking is growing; I surmise there are likely others out there that the owners have not looked at close enough, or at all.

    Two things bother me. One, PE has GOT to know they have a manufacturing problem! There is just too many of the same units cracking. The way they are handling it, from what I read through the owners posts, is deplorable.

    Second, the power of the Internet, more specifically, this forum: What company worth their salt believes that anyone in this group would likely consider a new PE insert to put into their own home. Really. Knowing what you have read here, would any one of you actually say, "yes, I'm gonna buy a new one"? Take that and compound it by word of mouth.

    Now, if you were a company of PE's supposed status, your workmanship and warranty shortfalls outlined here in detail and of multiple instances, would you not want to make things right and make an honest attempt to win back your rapidly deteriorating credibility?

    I am just baffled by it all. Based on what I have read, much like the VC saga, I absolutely would not consider a PE product. Their lack of attention and documented poor way of after sales support have soured me from even desiring one of their stoves not having problems. The company IS the product. If they can't back it up appropriately, then I for one would want not want to spend my hard earned cash with them. Just my opinion...

    The guys from Woodstock and Englander must just grin every time they find these threads of woe with PE. They may not manufacture a product that is any better, but they certainly do have the satisfied customer base that they endeavor to take care of after the stove has left the plant.
  13. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    Yes that is an external crack. The blurry glob in the lower right hand corner is the very top of the door pin.
  14. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    Well got another response from BAC Sales,

    Seems they cannot submit the repair for reimbursment that I will need to go through a dealer, which is fine and they will give me the info to contact the closest one. I also asked if it was a 150.00 limit per weld? I have 3 cracks, so I would think to get a guy to my house for $450.00 it might be doable. They are contacting PE again. I also asked to be CC'd with their correspondance with PE and let them know I know of 2 stoves that had welded repairs fail. Updates to follow as they come in.
  15. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    Part of the warranty issue is that you are dealing with three other parties (dealer, distributor, and manufacturer). Each has their own interests etc. This $150.00 cap for repair is not something in PE's warranty and could be the distributor's false claim. Contact PE directly to resolve that.

    As far as different interests, I was told by my dealer that they were never reimbursed when my stove was removed, repaired and reinstalled in 2009. I don't know if that is entirely true or not, but I am still waiting for them to schedule a time to remove and reinstall a new firebox. If they weren't paid the first time, I can see why they are dragging their feet now.
  16. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    Hog have you had any contact with PE etc. after the cracks reappeared? Would you pursue another warranty claim?

    I put my warranty claim in at the end of June and I am supposed to get a new firebox. Another peeve I have is the glacial speed these warranty claims take to resolve.
  17. mainstation

    mainstation Feeling the Heat

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    Suddenly I am rethinking my pending Summit insert purchase. Weld issues and the cost of rebuilding a new Hearth to accomodate the Summit may be just enough to push me back into a Regency I3100.
    Geez, good luck to the OP.

    BTW, it would be curious to has a tally of poor PE insert issues just for reference. Can someone please PM me if there is a tally.
    TIA
  18. krex1010

    krex1010 Minister of Fire

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    Ok so that crack is on a horizontal weld across the top of the firebox right? It appears vertical because you had the camera turned, am I right on that? Because if that crack is on the vertical weld going down between the from and side if the firebox that would mean pe changed the design on the firebox, because mine does not look like that.
  19. fredarm

    fredarm Minister of Fire

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    Anyone had issues with cracks in a PE Vista Insert? I don't recall hearing about any on here and a search did not return any results. I think I'm going to have to stick my head in the Vista and have a look (no small feat--it's not a very big opening!).
  20. certified106

    certified106 Minister of Fire

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    Dang it I'm sick of hearing about theses cracked PE inserts! I like my stove and wish PE would step up fix the problem and honor their warranty! It figures that all of these threads pop up AFTER I buy mine. How many free standing stoves have been reported? Has PE actually confirmed that they changed their design or manufacturing process that has created this issue?

    Hogz, you should definitely push them to replace your firebox and then examine it to determine if there was a design change and let us know. :)

    To the OP, I'm sorry to hear about your problem and can only imagine the frustration you must be feeling. It looks like the welds on that stove are pretty questionable are there any other welds that look that sketchy? I would try contacting them and asking them to replace your entire firebox! Stating that they will weld it is like telling someone who owns a 3 year old sports car with rust holes that you are going to throw some bondo on it and make it all better, which is completely not acceptable. I examined mine in the mentioned areas and my welds definitely don't look like that.
  21. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    Have yet to contact PE, so far distributor is very speedy with responses, just not necessarily the ones I want to hear. PE warranty states repair or replace at their discretion. After the five year warranty is up it says it will not cover labor but the firebox is warranteed for life? How doI get it welded without paying labor after the five years. I asked that the 5 year comprehensive be extended another 5 years if all they are going to authorize is a weld. Waiting to hear back. If I do not get a satisfactory answer I will contact PE directly. Distributor said it cannot share the "confidential emails it has with PE regarding my issue but invited me to contact them directly if I wish. That seems like my next step.

    Any news on good welders on Long Island? just in case?
  22. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    Oh, and I will take some pictures of the rest of the firebox welds and post them here tonight I hope and get all your "expert" opinions on the rest of the welds. Oh and the weld inside is Horizontal not vertical.
  23. krex1010

    krex1010 Minister of Fire

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    Maybe I will take my top plate off and take some external pics of my firebox, which is a newer pacific, maybe we can compare pics and see if we can see any changes in the design. I believe mine was made in 2009.
  24. Sisu

    Sisu Feeling the Heat

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    I don't recall any Vista inserts being involved. I am only aware of a one forum member with a Vista Classic that cracked. The owner stated that it only burned one cord a year.
    Blue Vomit likes this.
  25. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    +1 Jesse, quite frankly I am nervous that I could incur some issue and be left holding the bag.. This is not building my confidence one bit! The worst part is how slow these problems are dealt with..

    Ray

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