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Another cracked PE insert replaced

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by jqgs214, Sep 27, 2011.

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  1. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    To date there have been no issues reported for the Alderlea series other than a door misalignment if I recall correctly. They are built a bit beefier in some areas and tend to heat up differently than the regular PE stoves from my observation.

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  2. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    BG you always seem to brighten my day!

    :)

    Thanks for the lift!

    Ray
  3. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    Ok, more pictures as promised. I don't see any other issues but I did not remove the baffle ( i know its warped) or rails and inspect them all. Have others with this issue done that? any other suspect welds?

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  4. krex1010

    krex1010 Minister of Fire

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    wxman, thanks for posting the pics. as u can see in my pics, pe has made some changes in the pacific insert. the ash lip is different, but also there is a seam running vertically down from top to bottom along the edge of the door. that seam is welded on your stove, but on mine its not welded, so they definitely have changed the way they put the fireboxes together.

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  5. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    I don't think that seam on mine is welded, I think the pictures are decieving. Will check it tonight.
  6. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    Emailed Cory at PE this morning. Did not get into specifics except the $150.00 limit that was being imposed. He said $150.00 is based on average repair for this type of failure. He instructed me to get an estimate to reweld and then we can discuss any reimbursment limitations. I will also get the welders opinion as to whether or not a weld is the correct repair. Third time a charm?? Any good mobile welders on Long Island??
  7. hemlock

    hemlock Feeling the Heat

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    You may have a hard time getting a welder to do it in place. When I called a few places for my stove, they wouldn't go near it with a ten foot pole once they found out it was in a residence. They said their insurance co. would take a fit if they found out, or something happened. I was lucky to have welder who lived a few miles down the road who was willing to do it in place.

    Something gnawing at me is that I was told that they've never had problems before, etc.... but then we find they have an "average price for this type of repair" or they "usually like to get these welded" - what gives?
  8. VCBurner

    VCBurner Minister of Fire

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    I guess no matter what stove you buy, there's bound to be someone who has had a problem while using it.
    I've thought for a while now that every stove should have thermometers in or near their secondary burn chaimbers, especially with a cat stove. But with all stoves the flue temp thermometer and firebox temp thermometer are so essential. I used my DW in two different settings, the first one was (top) vented through the wall which allowed me to measure flue temps, the other was (rear) vented into a fireplace. The second setting would not really allow for "conventional" flue thermometer reading. I felt as if I lost a great beacon by giving up flue temperature themometer. Often times the flue temps would rise and be detected so much faster than the firebox temp thermometer could ever read it. I don't know of any inserts that give you the "luxury" of being able to read the flue temperatures. Stove manufacturers want people to think their stoves are easy to operate. But the truth is, they are not. Inserts are no different, I bet if you had a flue thermometer that recorded the peak temperatures, you'd find at times they are probably well beyond the recommended high. Which is not to say you should be held responsible, afterall how are you supposed to know what the flue temp is? The makers should provide a way for the user to measure temps inside the firebox, flue and near the secondary burn chaimber. But it would probably cost too much for them! :-/

    Good luck wxman, I hope they cough up enough $ to make proper repairs!

    Chris
  9. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    Well I found a good mobile weld I can trust that will do the work in house. Shot him some pictures and am waiting for an estimate. Just wanted to give you all an update.
  10. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    Sounds great wxman!Look forward to hearing how the repairs go..
    Right now I am in Lebanon NH with Dennis and his wife.. Very nice people andf got to see the progress hybrid burn in person!

    Ray
  11. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    WTF?! And you didn't post any pics of this? If I had any power around here I'd ban you for letting the group down! :p
  12. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    LMAO! The camera is in the car right now and I just checked into the hotel.. I will go get that right now.. Sorry!!! :)

    Ray
  13. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    No, I have not contacted PE regarding the cracks that came back. I see a couple small ones inside, nothing that worries me terribly. The face ones have stopped growing it seems. Going to burn this season and check during, and then again next year. I will not go for a repair again. I want the thing replaced as I gave it a shot repairing, and will not keep repairing something that is obviously an issue, at least for the inserts manufactured during this time period.
  14. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    Well I talked to the welder today (finally) and expect an estimate to repair some time tomorrow. His take is that the welds are not the solution and the cracks will recurr. Will forward the formal write-up to BAC Sales and PE once I get it. Also, it is going to come in way higher that $150.00. Eastern Long Island is an EXPENSIVE place to live and the mobile welder set-up gets $120.00/hr plus travel. Thinks about 2 hours on site. Biggest problem will be keeping weld surface clean enough he said. Do any of these cracks have the possiblily of leaking CO out of the stove with the fan running and distributing it in the house?
  15. iceman

    iceman Minister of Fire

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    My guy was here not even an hr.....looked the stove over, cleaned it, drilled it, cleaned it welded cracks on the outside, the door frame, welded some on the inside... And was gone.. ok maybe an hr, but did say it should be fine and it looked like external cracks nothing major
    On a side note.... She did me fine burning week without power ...
  16. North of 60

    North of 60 Minister of Fire

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    I don't think these cracks will be leak's. Just suckers allowing more air in for difficultly of controlling the fire. I imagine the cracks are closing up on the outside as the stove warms up?
    Sorry to here all the crap you guys are going through.
  17. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    UPDATE.

    I know its been awhile, but so far Ihave gotten PE up to $300 commitment to repair stove. And found another crack inside. Dealer says stove needs to come out. To be continued...
  18. maverick06

    maverick06 Minister of Fire

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    I am an engineer and deal with welding cracks a lot... (different types of cracks, but regardless).

    Welding over a crack is a bandaid. This is likely good enough, because there is no way the crack will be ground out and weld built back up.

    Welding is very challenging to do right. You have issues ranging from metal compatibility (base/weld rod), warping the steel, corrosion (different types of metal), not overlapping the weld enough.

    The stove will certainly have to be removed, not safe to do it in place.

    The big concern I see is that when welding there will either not be enough penetration into the metal, not stopping crack propagation or too much heat being put in when it is welded causing some warping. Neither of these would likely be noticeable. You wont find out until you start to thermally cycle the stove, then they may propagate from the metal heating and cooling enough. Chances are the actual weld wont crack, but the surrounding metal may. If the material is warped from this, the stress may be elsewhere, so keep a good eye out for new cracks too.

    Welding it is certainly a viable solution, but you have to be careful since you dont know how well it was welded. Thats why a weld here will cost you $150... (we do it right at work, and thats why its expensive and time consuming... but those are different things... :) we arent welding up fireplaces)
  19. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    Well Good news FINALLY!!!, After much back and forth with the distributor and PE, it has been decided that I am going to get a new stove. I won't bore you with all the other details other than I'll upload some pics of the first breakin fire when I get the new stove and have it installed.
  20. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Excellent. Kudos to your dealer for backing you up.
  21. kingquad

    kingquad Minister of Fire

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    Very good news. It's always good to see a company back up their product. It just seems like slow communication between the company/distributors/dealers/owners makes for a really slow process. The Summit is on my short list for my next house, and PE's ongoing issues with cracks and quality control have definitely not made the choice as easy as it might have been.
  22. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    I want a new insert ;-)
  23. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    September to May just to say it will be replaced. That is a crock. A very large crock full of it. My freakin 30 had a problem and they replaced the thing in two weeks. Which should be standard for something with a fire in it in your house. I don't care who made it.

    Excuse me for not wanting something with a "lifetime" warranty if it takes half a lifetime to get it done.
  24. weatherguy

    weatherguy Minister of Fire

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    I was going to get that insert until these problems popped up, I love the stove I didnt feel like going through the hassle if some cracks showed up..
  25. jqgs214

    jqgs214 Minister of Fire

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    Stove is in! Looks beautiful, took a long time but in the end they did what is right. Alot of the time was dealer issues since I did not have one and the distibutor needed to find one to do the install. As far as construction goes (disclaimer: I am not a welder) it looks just like the old on as far as the welds go in the firebox. Maybe the penetration is better but who am I to know. The ash lip and upper trim are more decorative and there are two blowers instead of one. Just something in the back of my head says its going to crack but it probably won't! Here is the kicker. They did not want old stove back but since I have a bad back an no way to move it it went out for scrap! I did keep the old firebricks for spares since they were in good shape. Had to use the old door and surround but that was no big deal. All in all I'm very happy and cant wait for it to get cold again! ( I will regret saying that I know :) )
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