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Anti bark collars?

Post in 'The Inglenook' started by mattjm1017, May 13, 2013.

  1. loon

    loon Minister of Fire

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    Its born in them gang! ==c When Murphy was here and Emma followed i ran them 600 acres all the time and they still came home a barking? :)

    Me and Emma still do our run on the farm and she will still bark when we get home. Squirrels/Birds/Leaves..She is a very good girl but has to let everything around her know that she is on watch ;)

    Keep it up matt..you guys will be fine :cool:

    loon
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  2. mattjm1017

    mattjm1017 Feeling the Heat

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    Yeah I wish I could go back today. I might not come home.
  3. mattjm1017

    mattjm1017 Feeling the Heat

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    Yeah we are talking about the class and also setting up some stuff in the yard to work with him between classes. I didn't mean we were going to get goats just for him to herd around but he might be entertained by them that's still on the backburner though well have to see how things go, one step at a time.
  4. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    Agility is a great outlet for Border Collies (or any active dog). We have a mixed breed shepherd that I'd swear must have some BC in her somewhere. I want to build an agility course here. I figure I'd take her to a basic agility course and see if she has any talent for it. If so, maybe I'll pursue it. If not, a course on our place would be good exercise for both of us anyway. Meanwhile, I throw frisbees for her every day and she's almost fanatical about it. I have a couple of soft but extremely durable frisbees called Jawz http://hyperflite.com/ that are weighted for distance, and that can keep her running hard as long as my arm holds out. We also take her for off-leash runs in the woods around here. We're fortunate to have that.

    Someone mentioned mental stimulation. BC's are especially smart and need that too. There are a lot of mental stimulation games for dogs.
  5. BobUrban

    BobUrban Minister of Fire

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    I agree with however many have responded with more exercize and do not forget to exercize the mind. A dog can get more tired thinking than running - especially a young dog. I have a healer, have trained many rescue dogs with big issues(two island ferels from Tobago in the mix) and I use a Dogtra e-collar at times. Great tool if used correctly and I think the bark collar or e collar can be great tools if not used as a catch all in leu of proper exercize.

    Working breeds need to run but even taking them on leashed walks where you are in charge and your dog remains at a proper heal will do wonders - the longer the better. Not allowing them to pull, sniff or lead you will force them to think and thinking tires them out. Change direction a lot and do not use voice commands - make them pay attention to you.
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  6. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    Right. On-leash walks as you describe are an important part of the equation. Dogs need and want the discipline of such exercises complete with the healing and direction changes. They love it and it strengthens the bond with you as alpha. For some breeds, that may be enough if the walks are long enough. For working dogs, they need the extra intense workouts as well.

    I just got an ecollar to correct some behavior issues, mostly jumping on people (she's way too friendly), running to other dogs or people to play, chasing small animals, and ignoring our calls when she gets too focused on those things. It works. We've only just started with it, but it seems to be very effective. It doesn't take much correction to get her attention back onto us and I think eventually it will be unnecessary to use it at all anymore. We use it in conjunction with the regular "come" command and she gets the idea.

    Some well meaning folks view ecollars as some kind of torture device and I suppose in the hands of a sadist, it could be used that way, but properly used, they can be a great training tool. For me, it's a way to get the dog's attention back on you when it gets diverted.
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  7. BobUrban

    BobUrban Minister of Fire

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    set it on as low a setting as will garner the dogs attention in "full" I am ignoring you mode and use it liberally to get the point across that my comand means something. ONCE the something begins - be it sit, stay, come, etc... let off - TIMING IS SUPER CRITICAL!! - this way they do not know where the sensation is originating but if they do as you ask - WHOLA - the correction stops. If your timing sucks so will the training - it takes work and not all dog owners of stubborn breeds are willing to put in the time.

    If done correctly the collar will be a placibo as the command will take over. Dogs are simple but that works two ways. Give an inch... you know the rest.

    Another great program with a strong dog or breed(or any pack animal for that matter) is using a NILF philosophy as in: nothing in life is free!! Your dog should never enter a doorway ahead of you - including going from one room to the next. Not walk in front of you - ever. Do not give meals w/o garnered respect and only to a calm dog and so on to the infinite. This seems tough but in no time it becomes second nature for you and the dog and both of you will be much happier. Simple but consistant is the key - if someone in the home is not 100% on board with the plan it will not be effective. Kind of cheesy but the dude is amazing - watch Ceasar Milan - on the animal planet and mimic his techniques. As mentioned above - he trains owners and rehabilitates dogs. If your dog is naughty go look in the mirror.
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  8. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    These devices should always be used in conjunction with positive reinforcement, too. I look at these ecollars as delivering a kind of a non-harmful nip that wolves give their young in a pack to teach them the rules and boundaries. That's all it takes for them. No hitting, no yelling, no meanness is necessary (or desirable). In fact, my ecollar has a vibrate mode like a cell phone. She's getting to respond to that in many cases, so we try that first sometimes, then the "nick". Then reward when she responds correctly. Sometimes it's praise, other times a treat. We only use an ecollar nick for a problem, and that thankfully is not too often. Some people use them as part of an overall training program. I'm not sure that's necessary, but maybe in some cases it helps.
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  9. Lake Girl

    Lake Girl Moderator Staff Member

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    We acquired a year old german shepherd who had no training except to stay off the couch. For the most part, training has been going well during the three months we've had her. She gets good exercise with some time off leash on old logging roads nearby.

    I have been contemplating a training collar as we still are having trouble with the come command - especially when she's following her nose or she wants to visit the neighbor's dog when I've tried her off leash at home (haven't got a fenced area to work with her yet).

    Mixed feeling on getting a collar especially as I've seen the neighbor dog's reaction. Had Schatzi off leash and walked up the drive to our garage, back to the house, then she took off to see the neighbor's dog. Their dog Roscoe let out a couple of barks and was playing with Schatzi when I got there. As soon as the neighbor walked out Roscoe made a dash for his dog house with his tail down. The neighbor told me I needed to get a leash (had one in my hand) - a total reverse of the conversation we had this winter when we had fox and wolf in the yard. He like the fact that my old dogs would patrol the area close to our houses and kept critters at bay. His attitude now is their dog is never off the leash (only met them out walking three times in the last year). They bought a collar to control the barking. I don't want the neighbors ticked off and followed her as soon as she took off but I'm not sure their methods are the best either ...

    Advice?
  10. loon

    loon Minister of Fire

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    Not sure how often the neighbor activates the collar Lake Girl? :( But Emma was very fast at learning what the collar meant as i think she has been zapped maybe a total 3 times in 3 years ;) We have around 5 acres here and the underground fencing is about 2 1/2 acres with only the road front buried. She can see the wires all around the property through the trees as that would of been a ton of digging for the goofy owner ==c
    She was taught with a bell on the e-collar and now we just use a 'dummy' collar on her and it works very well..

    Would this neighbor maybe loan you their collar for an hour? As i know if you rigged up a bell on it and then just used the fake collar you guys would be fine...Dogs do not forget anything >>

    Oh Ya..I've zapped myself a half dozen times ;lol just rigging it up and testing the thing and its not that big a deal.

    The bell works for both barking and to keep her in the yard ;)

    Terry

    [​IMG]
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  11. mattjm1017

    mattjm1017 Feeling the Heat

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    Lake girl there are a lot of people out there that overuse/abuse these training collars. Sounds like your neighbor is one of them. We haven't been putting ours on the BC very much here lately and hes still barking but not nearly as much as before I think well just be putting it on if were going to be gone for a while and leave them outside. As far as training them the come command I found that with our dogs it works best to start on a longer leash. Does your dog do sit and stay good? If so have her sit stay and walk backwards to the end of the leash making her stay where she is then tell her ok come she should come to straight to you and then you should reward her verbally and physically ( Im not a fan of always rewarding with a treat I believe they should do what you tell them cookie or not) This method has worked for me it takes a little time but you can slowly go further than the end of the leash and then try walking away in another direction. I don't think that the anti bark collars will really work with anything other than barking as they are automatic there are training collars that are controlled by you and there are the fence collars that set up a boundary in the yard I think that's what loon has.
  12. Lake Girl

    Lake Girl Moderator Staff Member

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    The bell and collar approach is pretty interesting - Skinner behavior mod at it's best!

    Underground fencing would not work well in our situation as the property is very oddly shaped with shared driveway(different neighbor) connecting two segments.

    Treats get mixed reviews - sometimes she gobbles the cookie type treats, others she'll lick them and ignore. She loves Beggin' Strips but their garbage with lots of additives and I don't want an obese and unhealthy dog. We've been working more with verbal/physical praise but slow going.

    Previous dogs seemed to be easier to train because we've had two dogs for many years (slightly older dog with younger one) and the kids were all home - lots of playmates to interact with. Our rottie passed away about two years ago but the encroaching wildlife changed my mind on being dogless. When at the vets with the cats for shots, asked me if I wanted a dog ... Schatzi. All our pets have been rehomed/rescued but she has been the oldest "pup" with virtually no manners.

    Any recommendations on brands of training collars?
  13. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    This is exactly why we got our ecollar. That and friendly jumping on people. I think what happens is that they get so determined and focused, that they just don't hear you sometimes (or don't want to). The ecollar is meant to get their attention back on you and it often doesn't take much for that. Start at the lowest setting that she can feel and work your way up slowly from there to use only the amount you need. Sometimes you may have to increase it if she doesn't respond, but there will be a setting that she will respond to. Use it along with your "come" command and she will get the idea. If higher settings are required, it becomes a negative reinforcement, but she will soon learn she must come. Often we only have to use the vibrate mode now.

    Chances are that she will learn quickly enough that eventually you will hardly have to use it at all.

    As for brands, they all work pretty much alike. We have the newer Einstein model. TriTronics, SportDog, and Dogtra are also well reviewed. The most basic collars work "up to" 1/2 mile and are fine for local areas. Others go up to 1 -2 miles for hunting dogs, etc.
  14. Lake Girl

    Lake Girl Moderator Staff Member

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    Since I'm always out in the yard with her, the shorter range should work fine. Like the idea of vibrate mode to get her attention as she progresses. Any concerns with water since we live on a lake and seems to love soggy places?

    Time for a little research I guess and hope I can get a good one locally.
  15. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    They're all waterproof if that's your concern. Look on Amazon for reviews. This is where I got mine: http://www.gundogsupply.com/dog-training-collars.html It's a very good online seller and ships fast (like same day). There are some youtubes, but most of them seem kind of lame to me...

    One thing I like about the Einstein is that it has a button for normal use, usually set on the lowest useable setting, but also a second button which delivers an increased level if needed which means you don't have to fiddle with the knobs. That increased amount can be programmed.

    Most of the units have a continuous mode and an intermittent mode. For this kind of problem-solving training, you probably don't even want to use the continuous mode. The Intermittent mode delivers a "nick" and that's what you want for this kind of thing.

    If you can't find one of the major, well reviewed brands locally, then get one online. Take your time to learn to use it properly.
  16. loon

    loon Minister of Fire

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    Emma has a thing for squirrels and chipmunks but you wouldnt know it in the second pic ==c and when she gets a bead on one she is nonstop barking/chasing.

    She is a Pyrenees so its born in them to protect "something" and Mrs loon says i cant get her a couple sheep to take care of :p

    Let us know how ya make out lake girl :)

    We have collars for everything matt ;lol But still just need the bell collars 99% of the time..

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
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  17. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

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    That's a great pic, loon.
  18. loon

    loon Minister of Fire

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    Thanks Sprinter, she was busy with the little fella that day >> It got away without any problems ;)


    [​IMG]
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  19. Lake Girl

    Lake Girl Moderator Staff Member

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    Your Emma reminds me of our Bouncer ... he used to lay down near the guinea pig when we put him on the floor. He did the same thing with the stray kittens we had (Momma had kittens on the neighbors porch just before they left to run their fishing lodge - brought them all to our house once we heard the owl in the back woods:eek: ). The kittens imprinted on him and he was "Papa". He was a Newfie mix.

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