Best wood burning insert for occasional use?

[JinRockville]

Hi Everyone,
We would like to purchase a wood burning insert for a brick fireplace. The house is approx. 1800 sq. ft, and well insulated. Our plan is to use the insert on occasion, and when we lose power. We definitely want an insert instead of a free-standing unit. Are there any recommendations you have for models? What should I look for in an insert for occasional use, versus full-time use?

I live in southern MD and have had a hard time shopping for inserts. I visited 2 stores in/around Rockville, and found the salespeople to not be very helpful. I hope you guys can shed more light on this for me.

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Welcome. For power outages you will want an insert that convects relatively well. This means a unit that extends out onto the hearth. Hampton and Pacific Energy make inserts that may work. In order to make specific model suggestions we need to know the fireplace dimensions to be sure it will fit. If you can also post a picture of the fireplace we can see if there are mantel clearance issues to be addressed.

 

[JinRockville]

Thanks, begreen. The firebox dimensions are 33.75" wide x 28.5" tall x 21.5" deep. The firebox tapers, and in the back it is 21.5" wide and 14.5" tall. The chimney opening at the narrowest point, at the top of the firebox is 18" deep and about 24" wide. There are no mantel clearance issues.

 

[NewHarmanOwner]

I have a Harmon 300I wood insert and it works beautifully. Based on your dimension above, the 300I would fit in your firebox nicely.

http://www.harmanstoves.com/Products/300i-Wood-Insert.aspx?page=Specifications

Here are some things that you should consider before buying a non-catalytic stove. This stove requires a very HOT coal bed in-order to engage its secondary burn feature; however, since you're only using it for occasional use as oppose to full-time burn, then this unit would be fine for you.

Obviously, you need DRY wood, whether or not you buy a catalytic or non-catalytic stove, having dry wood is essential. Without dry wood, you'll gunk up the catalytic.

 

[Nick Mystic]

Welcome to the forum JinRockville. I wanted to offer a word of warning regarding using an insert (or any wood burning device) only intermittently. If you go for extended periods of time without burning you need to very diligent on keeping up with your chimney inspections. You aren't likely to get a buildup of soot or creosote in a lightly used insert, but you are at greater risk of having your flue become blocked by various critters, such as birds, bats, and even squirrels. Make sure you have a properly attached rain cap with a screen and that will help a lot in this regard. The last thing you want is to spend a few thousand dollars on an insert only to have the house fill up with smoke when you try to light it when the power fails!

 

[JinRockville]

I have a Harmon 300I wood insert and it works beautifully. Based on your dimension above, the 300I would fit in your firebox nicely.

http://www.harmanstoves.com/Products/300i-Wood-Insert.aspx?page=Specifications

Here are some things that you should consider before buying a non-catalytic stove. This stove requires a very HOT coal bed in-order to engage its secondary burn feature; however, since you're only using it for occasional use as oppose to full-time burn, then this unit would be fine for you.

Obviously, you need DRY wood, whether or not you buy a catalytic or non-catalytic stove, having dry wood is essential. Without dry wood, you'll gunk up the catalytic.

Thanks, NewHarmanOwner. Did you mean to say that I need to consider those things before buying a catalytic stove?

 

[JinRockville]

Welcome to the forum JinRockville. I wanted to offer a word of warning regarding using an insert (or any wood burning device) only intermittently. If you go for extended periods of time without burning you need to very diligent on keeping up with your chimney inspections. You aren't likely to get a buildup of soot or creosote in a lightly used insert, but you are at greater risk of having your flue become blocked by various critters, such as birds, bats, and even squirrels. Make sure you have a properly attached rain cap with a screen and that will help a lot in this regard. The last thing you want is to spend a few thousand dollars on an insert only to have the house fill up with smoke when you try to light it when the power fails!

Thanks for the great advice. I'll make sure to have a rain cap and screen.

 

[begreen]

Looks like you have some good options. What is the budget? What is the look you want, a simple black box or something with a fancier cast iron surround? Do you want a dealer purchased and installed unit or one that can be delivered and self or chimney sweep installed? What do the local stores sell?

 

[NewHarmanOwner]

Thanks, NewHarmanOwner. Did you mean to say that I need to consider those things before buying a catalytic stove?

Well, dry wood is a must have regardless of catalytic stove or not, but catalytic stove is more adversely affected; however, it is much easier to operate than Harman, since you need to establish hot fire and coal bed first.

 

[iamlucky13]

There are no mantel clearance issues.

Just to be clear, mantel clearance is not a matter of the mantel physically blocking the insert from being installed, but of the mantel being close enough to the firebox that heat rising from the insert could potentially overheat a wooden mantel.

The insert manufacturer will have clearance specs in their documentation, so you should be able to select an insert, then just check the specs to make sure you have the mantel, side, and hearth clearance required.

 

[JinRockville]

Looks like you have some good options. What is the budget? What is the look you want, a simple black box or something with a fancier cast iron surround? Do you want a dealer purchased and installed unit or one that can be delivered and self or chimney sweep installed? What do the local stores sell?

No budget yet. Black is preferred. I like the look of the plain modern steel units and less ornate cast irons. Local stores seem to carry lots of brands. I would rather purchase through a dealer or chimney mason install. We need some repairs to our chimney (it leaks a little).

 

[bholler]

Well, dry wood is a must have regardless of catalytic stove or not, but catalytic stove is more adversely affected; however, it is much easier to operate than Harman, since you need to establish hot fire and coal bed first.

Actually cat stoves deal with wet wood as good if not better than most stoves. You just leave the bypass open longer till the cat gets up to temp. I have found that the harmans with their downdraft setup are some of the hardest stoves currently made to run correctly. When you get it right they can work great but they are very picky about wood as well. And they also dont turn down very well. I personally would never recommend one.

 

[NewHarmanOwner]

Actually cat stoves deal with wet wood as good if not better than most stoves. You just leave the bypass open longer till the cat gets up to temp. I have found that the harmans with their downdraft setup are some of the hardest stoves currently made to run correctly. When you get it right they can work great but they are very picky about wood as well. And they also dont turn down very well. I personally would never recommend one.

I think it all has to do with wood, I had semi-dry wood in Feb when I had mine installed and it was not as efficient. This year, the wood is drier, but not as dry as I want so I'll supplement that with bio brick or such. But all in all, I'm very happy with my stove, despite being somewhat of a novice at this. Obviously, I can only speak from Harman prespective, but the idea of having to replace catalytic converter is not something I'm interested, thus I chose Harman instead.

 

[bholler]

but the idea of having to replace catalytic converter is not something I'm interested

Have you checked the price of that delicate combustion package in the back of your stove yet? I would gladly deal with a cat over that. All that being said for occasional use in power outages i would recomend a tube stove they are typically cheaper and less complicated to run

 

[begreen]

In your climate a 2.0 to 2.5 cu ft insert would work fine as a chill chaser. For around $1000 a basic Englander 13NCi or Drolet 1800i would do the trick. But there are many others depending on local dealer options. Lopi/Avalon, Enviro, Quadrafire, Osburn, Pacific Energy, Regency make good units in this size range.

 

[bholler]

bviously, I can only speak from Harman prespective

I am not bashing harmans they can work well once people figure them out and we do have a few customers that love them. But due to the fact that there is no way to monitor the temps in the secondary combustion chamber. The fact that they are so touchy as far as wood and the delicate and expensive parts they are not something i would recommend. They are also a real pain to service we charge an extra 20% to clean one

 

[JinRockville]

In your climate a 2.0 to 2.5 cu ft insert would work fine as a chill chaser. For around $1000 a basic Englander 13NCi or Drolet 1800i would do the trick. But there are many others depending on local dealer options. Lopi/Avalon, Enviro, Quadrafire, Osburn, Pacific Energy, Regency make good units in this size range.

Thanks for the advice. I went to 3 stores around here, and the prices were pretty painful for all these except for the Buck:

Buck Model 74 -would get this but it does not sit flush (extends out ~6"), and we would need a hearth extender.

These are all over $5K installed:
Quadrafire Voyageur
Morso 5660
Avalon Flush Wood Plus (Shadowbox)
Travis Cape Cod

I am going to keep on looking for a wood insert that sits flush, in matte black.

I'll look into the Englander 13NCi or Drolet 1800i, but it looks like they both extend out from the firebox quite a bit.

Are there any options that are flush, and are not over $5K installed?

 

[Grisu]

Osburn Matrix, Pacific Energy Neo 2.5, Napoleon EPI3C, maybe Enviro 1700 Cabello or Venice, slightly protruding but "cheap": Heatilator Eco choice WINS 18

Whether they are less than $5000 installed will also depend on the cost for liner, labor etc.

 

[mellow]

Flush and budget do not go hand in hand unless you find a used one, I would recommend looking at the Jotul 550 if you want flush or the 450 if you can stand it sitting on the hearth a bit.

There is a 450 on CL for $1000 down in VA: http://winchester.craigslist.org/app/5228091681.html

This 450 in PA comes with liner: http://allentown.craigslist.org/hsh/5228640198.html

 

[JinRockville]

Thanks, Everyone, for your suggestions. We went and looked at more options and found these for under $5K installed:

Pacific Energy Neo 2.5
Vermont Castings Montpelier

I have 2 questions (or related groups of questions):

1) The Vermont Castings unit has a larger viewing window, and is $380 less than the Pacific Energy Neo 2.5 However, the store was trying to sell us on the Pacific Energy based on its stainless steel baffle, higher BTU, and better quality of build. Is the extra money for the Pacific Energy worth it? Another vendor also quoted us on the Vermont Castings Montepelier, but recommended the (more expensive) Avalon Flush Wood Plus (Shadowbox), and Travis Cape Cod over the Montpelier based on overall build.

Is the Vermont Castings Montpelier not built well, or is there a reason why it is lower in price? It is consistently less money than the other flush units.

2) I am confused about liners. One vendor touted a "welded" versus a "crimped" liner with 1" insulation on the outside. (I assume crimped refers to a flexible liner). Another place offered a one-piece pre-insulated flexible liner. What liner do you recommend? Is the "welded" liner superior, and where is the weld? What is the best kind of liner?

Thank you.

 

[begreen]

Flush inserts are going to be poorer performers in the case of a power outage. Is this no longer a priority?

Keep the liner question separate from the stove decision. You probably can get a quote for your preferred lining situation. Find out if "welded" means a rigid liner. If so yes, that is about as solid a liner as you can buy, but a heavy duty flex liner is also a good alternative.

 

[Grisu]

Have you tried a forum search for the Montpelier in particular? I think you will find a few threads that should tell you how well built the unit is.

 

[Grateful11]

I have no complaints about our Century CW2500 Insert. You can a good 6-8 burn time with it. It's not overpowering for our Den.

http://www.century-heating.com/en/products/wood/cw2500-insert-stove-cb00019

An actual burn.

 

[JinRockville]

Flush inserts are going to be poorer performers in the case of a power outage. Is this no longer a priority?

Keep the liner question separate from the stove decision. You probably can get a quote for your preferred lining situation. Find out if "welded" means a rigid liner. If so yes, that is about as solid a liner as you can buy, but a heavy duty flex liner is also a good alternative.

We are still prioritizing a flush insert because our hearth is not very deep and would require an rebuild if we went with a non-flush unit. We usually have a black out only once a year.

Yes, welded means a rigid liner. Only once place around here (out of 6 offered this to us.) The place that has the Pacific Energy Neo 2.5 (which we settled on) includs the liner installation with the unit. I will look into the type of flex liner. What thickness is considered "heavy duty"?

 

[JinRockville]

Have you tried a forum search for the Montpelier in particular? I think you will find a few threads that should tell you how well built the unit is.

I tried putting "Montpelier" in the search function, but got no results. Perhaps I am doing something incorrectly? I'll try looking at Vermont Castings in genera

EDIT: Curiously, I was able to find some comments regarding the Montpelier when I searched under Vermont Castings. I think I will go with the Pacific Energy Neo 2.5. Thanks for the hint.