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Posted By jzinckgra,
May 17, 2012 at 12:56 PM
Getting back to the OP. Do you have any more questions about stoves?
I should have said earlier that I have floor sensors. my thermostats can use room temp or floor sensor temp. they even have an outside probe to anticipate the differential in outside inside temps.
I got the heat load calc from our builder and it is approx 50,000. Would we still want to look at the larger stoves given this load cal or could we drop down a bit in size?
You will not be running the stove at maximum btu output for any extended time period so going a bit larger is not going to be an issue. I think you will be fine with a 2-2.5 cu ft convective stove like the Boston or Alderlea T5 or maybe a Woodstock Fireview. What is the aesthetic you want? Have you had a chance to look at some of the other recommended models in this range? Do any stand out in particular?
Whichever brand you choose to go with, the price increase from a medium to a large stove is not that great a percentage of the overall cost of installing a wood stove. You also may find you are surprised at how little time it takes to burn 24/7, and how seldom you have to refill the firebox or attend the stove, and may find yourself after the first season of burning wanting to do so(burn 24/7) at some point. I'd get a stove that would be capable of doing that, so I'd go with a large firebox, The medium stoves at relatively high output produce under 40,000 BTU for the most part. For instance, the Woodstock Fireview is rated 44,000 BTU upper limit, 14,000 low burn, with about a 2.3 cu ft firebox, while the PH with dual burn technologies, a larger viewing window (a very rewarding feature) amd a 2.6 cu foot firebox is rated tp 80,000 BTU, with an even lower available low burn of slightly over 11,000 BTU. So, if my heat load was 50,000 and I dec ided to go with a Woodstock, I;d go with a PH, knowing it would meet any needs I ever had.
Don't know when you are actually going to be installing your stove, but if not til after this burn season, keep an eye on this thread for comments on the new stoves coming out this year. Also most stoves are on sale after the burn season. And Woodstock has announced that they have a new stove that they will be revealing late this year that will be ready for the next burning season that is a departure from any stove they have designed before, so that may be worth watching for if you are not burning til next year.
Although, for your build, you'll probably want to know if you want 6 or 8 inch chimney.
By the way, you don't look like you are really a corner install. PH rear clearance is 6 or 7 inches, and it can be top vented, comes with a great cooktop under the soapstone top...
The Alderlea T5 is rated at 72,000 btus max out, the Boston 1700 at 77,000 btus. I think either will meet the requirements here. This is a modern well insulated house with a reasonable energy requirement.
I just looked up the T5 at Pacific Energy's site. WOW! Huge difference between EPA testing of 34,600 BTU and their stated 72,000 BTUs with cordwood. For comparisons sake, the BTUs I listed for the Woodstock stoves are with EPA testing. So the Fireview, a radiant stove, is EPA tested at 44,000 BTU vs T5 34,600....over 25% more heat.
PE gives an example in their manual of wood needed to produce BTUs during an 8 hour burn: 9375 BTU per ten pounds per hour, but then caution that that is assuming 100 % efficiency, while they say you should expect 80% efficiency. Take those figures and you get 7500 BTU per hour per 10 pounds for an 8 hour burn. By my reckoning that means:72000 BTU divided by 7500 BTU =9.6 times 10 pounds =96 pounds of cordwood over 8 hours to produce 72,000 BTU per hour? That's a lot of wood....How many times do you need to reload in those 8 hours to get 96 pounds of wood in the stove?
I'd get a stove EPA rated sufficient to heat that house, and then load the firebox and cruise along....
By the way, PE has a nice little test for checking the burnability of your firewood...will start a post referring to it, because it may be helpful to some. T5 looks like a great stove.
Yes, EPA testing is done with fir dimensional lumber. East coast hard wood burning is much better. Even, local doug fir splits provide more heat if the wood is from older growth and not farm trees. If the OP decided to go with the T6 is wouldn't overheat the place unless run hot. These are not radiant stoves. But I think the T5 would do the job in a nice tight house.
I had over 20K invested in a gasifiaction boiler, thermal storage and a building. Myself I'll take a wood stove any day. No pumps to go bad, or worrying if the generator will keep going when the power is out, plus now you paying for fuel to heat your house to run the generator. Wood stove is a lot more enjoyable to me. Seems that with the boilers and storage people were constantly fooling with them trying to get the most out of the wood. I'd rather open the door put some wood in and just enjoy the fire! Tinkering gets old! At times it would have been a better pay back just heating with oil with all the money tied up in some big systems, unless your 25 years old, maybe you'll see a pay back, if the boiler doesn't get a pin hole leak because the water PH was off, or the stove over heated because a high temp relay failed. A wood stove you can just walk away and leave it out with no worries of water corrosion, etc. I guess I can say I been there done that and went back to the simple life of a regular wood stove. Never looked back and wouldn't do it again.
Been there , done that! Went with our old place we sold. Simple wood stove for me, less wood, and lots of heat!
Yup. I'm grateful for the simplicity of heating our house. If a friend house sits no worries, easy peasy heating is good.
You let friends / house-sitters operate your stove?
It depends, we don't have a house sitter that often. With close friends yes. They have a PE Summit in their house and burn 24/7 in the winter. Others probably not, but that's what the heat pump is for.
Somehow that heat load seems high for 2100 sq.ft., assuming very a efficient outer shell. I have to wonder if the calc was done using old rules of thumb vs a carefully done Manual J. Will the builder provide details of the calc for you to go over?
I am not sure how the calc was done. We do have a lot of prow glass and i am sure thats eating up some btus
I've been following this thread and it's been very helpful to me. I'm in a very similar situation as you, we are planning on building our home next year (working on plans now) and intend on an aproximately 2,000 sq ft timber framed home, with partial cathedral ceilings, central fireplace, radiant, and similar insulation techniques. Not to mention, I have a crazy schedule as well. I was going to start a similar thread as this but this one has proved pretty helpful so far and I have held off. I like the tips and advice people have given you about actually moving the heat from the stove, around the house, and trying not to make the upstairs too warm. Also, I'm glad people are recommending to stick with radiant and don't change that design idea. I am dead set on radiant as well. For reference, we will be building in central NH so very similar climate.
Ok, we are starting to narrow down the choices after looking at some more stoves this wknd. Here is the list in no particular order:
1. Jotul F55 (max BTU 83,000, 3.0cuft). A rather bland looking stove, but wife likes the simple look. I am a bit worried about not having a side load door, especially if our draft isn't sufficient. Price = $1950
2. Enviro Boston 1700 (max BTU 74,000, 2.5cuft). Good looking stove, but smallish firebox. Clearances are tight which helps. Also, no side load. Price = $2200
3. Pac Energy T5 or T6 (max BTU 72,000 or 99,000). T6 would probably be the better choice with the larger firebox. Price = ~$2200 (T5), ~$2600 (T6). I need to check on these prices, but the T6 is getting up there in price, especially compared to the jotul.
Cost-wise, the Jotul is the least expensive, has a large enough firebox, but is a relatively new stove without much long-term reliability. The T6 is also nice, but the cost is quite high. I do notice there is quite a difference in efficiencies between stoves (~74-84%). How important is this in considering a stove? Log length is about the same for all stoves, 18-20".
I wouldn't put too much stock in efficiency . . . not at those numbers. But this may just be me. For me reliability was key in making my final choice.
I know you're partial to Jotul right? So which would you choose from the above?
Also, I heard you can save some money on using a chimney sweeper to install the stove as opposed to going through the stove shop. Local shops around here are charging between $400-700 just for install. I can save a bunch on taxes by buying stove and pipe over in NH. The challenge is finding someone to install.
Of the three choices listed? I am partial to Jotul (unashamedly I should say since my Oslo has yet to let me down or leave me in the cold after what four or five years of burning 24/7 in the winter with zero parts to replace) and they put out a quality product, but as you noted this stove doesn't have a lot of history yet, unlike the Oslo, F-600, etc. That said, it is a Jotul and I would think that stands for something.
Enviro . . . no real experience . . . good or bad.
PE . . . again, no real experience . . . but I know there are many folks here who really like the PE brand. I actually was considering a PE myself and could have gone that route if the local dealership in Bangor actually had one of these on the sales floor and didn't resort to "showing" me a model packed away in a crate.
To answer your next question . . . yeah . . . if you want to save some money and don't want to install the stove or chimney yourself contact a sweep -- but don't just call up any Tom, Dick or Harry who has bought a brush at the local Home Depot and now they think they are professionals. I would recommend checking with the CSIA.org. You can also ask at the local FD since many Firefighters work as sweeps -- but again, get some reviews, check for their certification and get some quotes.
Ok, just need the final push towards either the jotul F50 or PE T6. I changed my mind from the F55 to F50. The T6 has the larger firebox and is just a tad more expensive then the F50. Cost for F50 is $2169 with no sales tax or T6 = $2347 + tax.
This thread has been a great read. I can't offer much in the way of stove suggestions, but just tossing in another vote for ceiling fan(s) fwiw. Just installed 2 in @ 600 sq living area w/ 18' vaulted ceiling, and turning on lowest speed they mix the air quite nicely - even seems to make a difference in the far reaches (across the adjoining kitchen area).