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Catalytic vs. Burn Tubes

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Rockey, Jan 21, 2009.

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  1. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Never heard of him! :coolsmirk:

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  2. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    I tried emailing them about beating Woodstocks price and never received a reply.
  3. johnnywarm

    johnnywarm Minister of Fire

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    I know lololololo Begreen i get secondaries just like in the vid on my f400.i must be doing something right.
  4. semipro

    semipro Minister of Fire

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    As I remarked earlier in this thread my Jotul Firelight cat is still burning pretty clean after 9 years of very rough use including use of colored paper for starting, over-firing, and use of softwoods like pine. I keep waiting for it to start puffing smoke so I can spend $100 on a new converter but it just keeps going. I don't claim that its burning factory fresh but when the cat is lit its usually hard to tell by looking at what's coming out of the flue.
  5. semipro

    semipro Minister of Fire

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    Please ignore, duplicate post.
  6. southland

    southland New Member

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    I changed the cat in my parents Buck 91 over Christmas (the cat was 8 yrs old). It only has one cat unit, not three. It's not hard at all. You do need a deep socket in step 4. Here are directions cut from the owner's manual.

    http://www.buckstove.com/buckfiles/manuals/Buck-Stove-Model-91-Manual-(Rev-10102008).pdf

    CATALYST REPLACEMENT (Off-Season Replacement Recommended)
    1. Spread a drop cloth in front of the stove.
    2. Open the door and clean out any ash.
    3. Using penetrating oil, generously lubricate the eight (8) bolt threads holding the catalyst housing in place.
    Allow oil to penetrate.
    4. Using a 9/16" wrench or 9/16" socket, loosen the eight (8) nuts and remove the catalyst housing (drop down)
    and place in a suitable work area. BE CAREFUL removing the 8 nuts. If you break the bolt, you will have to
    drill out the bolt (difficult) and wait for your dealer to order one! You do not want this to happen during the
    cold weather!
    5. Using needle nose pliers, grasp the front edge of the stainless steel “cans” which houses the catalytic element
    and pull upward. Reposition pliers to another position and pull upward. Repeat procedure until the catalyst
    can be removed from the housing.
    6. Using a small putty knife or scraper, remove any gasket that may have adhered to the catalyst housing.
    7. Now, obtain the new catalysts and wrap the stainless steel “can” with interam gasket and tape ends together
    using scotch tape or masking tape. IMPORTANT: BEFORE STARTING TO REPLACE CATALYST,
    contact your dealer and order the INTERAM gasket and the CATALYST HOUSING Gasket. Gaskets not
    covered under warranty. It may take your dealer several days to receive the gaskets.
    8. Insert the new catalysts into the catalytic housing and push down until they are seated on the top of the
    stainless steel wire mesh supports.
    9. Reinstall the catalyst housing into the stove and secure in place with the bolts.
    10. The stove is now ready for use.
  7. rumme

    rumme New Member

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    I can only comment that I just installed a napolean 1900p non cat , dual burn system. Ive had it running for 5 days/ nights now, and its burning my wood so completely, that I still dont have 1" of ash covering the entire bottom of the stove floor. Before I go to bed, I put 3 logs in it, about 12" long, and in the morning, its ready to refire as needed on the glowing coals. So far im very happy for the $1400 price tag. I do not see me using my homes ineffcient electric heat pump to much in the future. If I save just $300 a yr in heating costs, the stove has payed for itself in less then 5 years and I dont have to worry about replacing cat converters.

    It looks like it may take a month of solid burning, to create enough ash that mandates it to be cleaned out of the stove. I can live with that :}
  8. North of 60

    North of 60 Minister of Fire

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    Are you not the one that posted this thread my friend. http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/33585/ What you expected, and are looking for is actually what a new CAT stove will do. It will shut the fire down to a smolder. Sounded like you had more worries than replacing a CAT in that thread. :roll:
    N of 60
  9. johnnywarm

    johnnywarm Minister of Fire

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    Are you burning soft wood?
  10. Wet1

    Wet1 Minister of Fire

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    That doesn't sound all that bad if it only has to be done every 6-9 years, but what about routine cleanings? I'm under the impression the cat(s) need to be brushed off every so often.
  11. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    Yeah, that's way too difficult. Compare that to the woodstock: lift lid, lift out catalyst, put back. No tools, no breaking bolts, no penetrating oil, no warning not to do it in the cold weather, etc.

    Surprised that you only found one catalyst. The parts list called out three and the instructions called out the plural form of cans and catalysts in most places. But hey, you actually touched it so I believe you.

    I even looked at the dutchwest cat since it is pretty large and those folks have a woodstockish looking cat setup. Though it is harder to get access to.

    All of these large cat stoves seem to want an 8" flue.
  12. TheFlame

    TheFlame New Member

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    The Fireview seems to be the ultimate in cat maintenance, does anybody know how bad the Keystone/Palladian is to maintain? I do know you have to go through the flue exit to get the cat out of them, but that's about it.
  13. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    You can remove it either from the top or rear, depends where you vent. Check this out.
    http://www.woodstove.com/slideshow/KS-P Combustor clean/kspcombclean.html

    Link won't work, go to woodstock site click on support and cat cleaning slide show.
  14. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

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  15. rumme

    rumme New Member

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    umm..according to another poster, the epa approved woodstove are not made to allow them to shut down quickly....via using the air intake adjustment...


    furthermore, i am discussing, in this thread ,how completely my stove is burning the wood I am using....not about shutting it down....
  16. rumme

    rumme New Member

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    this moderator seems to disagree with you...heres their post on another thread..

    If the flames could be completely stopped they would never be able to pass the EPA emissions test and therefore they could not sell the stoves. During the EPA testing the primary air control has to be closed completely down without smoldering the wood load.

    Signature
    Yeah, I know that wood stoves
    ...
  17. rumme

    rumme New Member

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    nope...red cedar { aged for 8 years or more} ..

    ash and oak....aged for 1 year or more...


    my napolean is burning this wood so completely, that I am amazed by it. It is 65 degrees here today, so I totally shut this stove down for the first time in more then 5 days/ nights and I barely got 1 " of fine ash ....I wont even emtpy that since the manual recoomends 1 " of ash to be left inside the stove
  18. johnnywarm

    johnnywarm Minister of Fire

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    [
    Are you burning soft wood?[/quote]


    nope...red cedar { aged for 8 years or more} ..

    ash and oak....aged for 1 year or more...


    my napolean is burning this wood so completely, that I am amazed by it. It is 65 degrees here today, so I totally shut this stove down for the first time in more then 5 days/ nights and I barely got 1 " of fine ash ....I wont even emtpy that since the manual recoomends 1 " of ash to be left inside the stove[/quote]


    My f400 burns the way your stove is if the wood is seasoned properly.
  19. bluefrier

    bluefrier Feeling the Heat

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    Rumme, that moderator was commenting on a non-cat epa stove. A CAT stove will burn the smoke from a smoldering fire.
  20. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Any cat you find in a Napoleon stove will probably have four legs and a tail. Nap doesn't make cat stoves.
  21. rumme

    rumme New Member

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    so this means that epa approved cat woodstoves allow the owner the ability to totally shut down the flames within a few minutes...via the air intake adjustment ...while epa approved double burn non cat stoves will not allow the user to totally shut down the flames at all via the same air intake adjustment ?
  22. karri0n

    karri0n New Member

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    Precisely.

    Although, I don't know that you would be able to COMPLETELY 100% shut it down as in "turn it off", but it will bank down much much more than a non cat epa stove.
  23. rumme

    rumme New Member

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    thanks for the info...I was not aware of this.
  24. savageactor7

    savageactor7 Minister of Fire

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    Boy I sure wish some CAT owner could steer this thread to those that may want to run a CAT stove for max heat output and how often you would reload if say you wanted to keep a 3k area at 75 when it's 20 outside. Thanks brothers.

    Also will it damage to CAT to continually run for max heat?
  25. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

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    No.

    CAT's and Secondary Air are different ways of burning the excess gas from wood, so its hard to compare the two. Each has their pluses and minuses. I Personally love my Cat stove, but then again I have only had it for 3 days. Once you light off the Cat your good to go until your next reload, pretty simple. Plus if your running right you damper your stove down to the point you don't even see flames, just a nice glowing cat hard at work.
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