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  1. arrowe44

    arrowe44 Member

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    Jun 3, 2008
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    Loc:
    central me
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  2. TCaldwell

    TCaldwell Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    512
    Loc:
    860-868-9014 h 203 948 0864 c nw corner ct.
    whoud a thunk, makes the labors of cordwood attractive! Sounds like the ventilation is key.
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  3. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,519
    Loc:
    Northern Maine
    I wonder how much CO is released from freshly processed wood....... Yet another reason not to burn green wood ==c that is stored inside.

    TS
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  4. heaterman

    heaterman Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    2,980
    Loc:
    Falmouth, Michigan
    Stack cordwood in a sealed room and the same thing will happen. Lawn clippings will do the trick also. The issue is not pellets but rather the method of storage. Notice also the size of the storage rooms in described in the incidents mentioned.

    All vegetative matter gives off CO as it decomposes/oxidizes.
    30 years on our fire dept has given me lots of training opportunities to learn about this phenomena.
    We lost a high school classmate/friend a few years ago when he entered a silo on his farm.....something he had done many times before.....and was nearly instantly overcome and asphyxiated within less than a minute. Witnesses tried to get him out but could not enter because they became ill within seconds also and seeing what had just happened were able to recognize the symptoms when they felt them. Confined spaces are nothing to underestimate in any circumstance.

    So yes Tom, ventilation is the key.
    StihlHead likes this.
  5. Frozen Canuck

    Frozen Canuck Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    861
    Loc:
    North central Alberta, Canada
    Confined space entry. Follow safe working procedures. Required on every job site, up here anyhow. Sad thing is many know this & completely forget it when they go home at the end of the day. Then well....stuff happens.
  6. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,519
    Loc:
    Northern Maine
    Interesting, I learn something (or many things) every day. I was always under the impression CO was released in the decomposition of organic matter ie. wood rotting. I never would have guessed is was released from drying or stored wood, rather rotting or wet wood decomposing.

    TS
  7. ewdudley

    ewdudley Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,627
    Loc:
    Cayuga County NY
    Carbon dioxide is released from decomposing wood, and it is released as a byproduct of fermentation in silos (and beer making!).

    Carbon monoxide is what they're saying can accumulate in pellet storage facilities. "The chemical reactions responsible for carbon monoxide production from wood pellets are assumed to be an auto-oxidation process, especially oxidation of the fatty acids to be found in wood." http://www.hse.gov.uk/safetybulletins/co-wood-pellets.htm

    One will suffocate in a hurry and the other poisons the blood, either way heed FC's advice and be wary of sealed spaces.
    heaterman likes this.
  8. heaterman

    heaterman Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    2,980
    Loc:
    Falmouth, Michigan

    Dioxide....Monoxide.....either one will kill you in a very short time given the right conditions. In fact, carbon dioxide is used in commercial meat slaughtering operations to "gas" the animals before butchering.
  9. 700renegade

    700renegade Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Messages:
    139
    Loc:
    NE Wisconsin
    [quote="All vegetative matter gives off CO as it decomposes/oxidizes.
    30 years on our fire dept has given me lots of training opportunities to learn about this phenomena.
    We lost a high school classmate/friend a few years ago when he entered a silo on his farm.....something he had done many times before.....and was nearly instantly overcome and asphyxiated within less than a minute. Witnesses tried to get him out but could not enter because they became ill within seconds also and seeing what had just happened were able to recognize the symptoms when they felt them. Confined spaces are nothing to underestimate in any circumstance.

    So yes Tom, ventilation is the key.[/quote]

    To clarify, silo gas is a combination of NO2 and CO2. The Nitrous Dioxide is the problem as it is heavier than air ( accumulates in the silo room or the top of the settled sileage ) and creates nitric acid when mixed with water in your lungs. The CO2 isn't poisonous, but could asphyxiate you if you lingered in it for too long. It doesn't tie up the hemoglobin like CO does, so it's not nearly the same risk ( speaking from experience here. visited my freindly ER for CO before ).
  10. BTEC_staff

    BTEC_staff New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Loc:
    Washington, DC
    There are three public webinars and presentations on CO formation during bulk pellet storage on the Biomass Thermal Energy Council (BTEC) website. With support from NYSERDA, our association has been conducting a review of the current science and policies (domestic and international) related to bulk pellet storage, CO production, mitigation, and storage guidelines/requirements. We've held three webinars over the past few months with a wide variety of industry professionals, and they're available below:

    The year long project's background is here >> http://biomassthermal.org/programs/fuel_safety.asp

    Later this fall, BTEC will publish a final report complete with translations of European bulk pellet storage recommendations.

    Feel free to contact me for project related questions (joseph.seymour@biomassthermal.org)

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