Dutchwest 2461

[VCBurner]

Hello everyone, happy New Year! This is my first post.
This is my first year heating with wood. I got a free antique cast iron stove (Atlanta Stoveworks Box #27) last year. While in the process of restoring it I bought a Surdiac Gotha 513 for $80. I've been addicted ever since. I'm in the process of purchasing a large Dutchwest #2461. One of the catalytic models by Vermont Castings. We've saved a ton of money this year by burning wood! I would like to be sure that I'm buying a good stove. Does anyone have one of these? It is said to put out 40,000Max BTU, burns 22" logs for up to 9hrs, heats up to 1600 sq. ft. with a 76% efficiency rating. If this is all true and it's is as durable and reliable, as the guy who's selling it says it is, then this is the right kind of stove for me. If anyone owns one of these I'd like to hear about your experience with this stove! Thank you in advance.

 

[bsa0021]

The duchwest noncat stoves are very fragile (mine was scrap in 4 years). I don't know about the cat stoves but I wouldn't buy anything from VC.

 

[Todd]

I've always liked the looks of those Dutchwest cat stoves, but I keep hearing there are too many parts inside to go wrong and they tend to be finicky to burn at times. Take a look at the ratings section on this site and check out the different models your interested in.

 

[swestall]

Looks are great, performance is good, while it lasts. You might just want to run with what you have and save up for a non-cat stove. There are many,many good ones out there. I like soapstone and the PE Aldera stoves. But, there are many other good ones. In the long run you will be happy you waited until you could get the best. In the meantime, you seem to be doing pretty well with what you have.

 

[Pine Knot]

I've burned a #2461 for a couple of years now and I like it pretty well. Good even heat, once the cat starts it puts out steady heat until time for reload, which for me is about every 6 hours, over night burns are good, I've used one match so far this year.Ash handleing is easy, the grate lets fine ash fall thru into the ash pan which I empty once a day, usually in the morning before I reload.
So far I have had no problems with this stove but one of the other posters point about dealing with VC is well taken, they are an unknown as far as service and parts at this time.

 

[webby3650]

I would do a search on this site before pulling the trigger on one of these stoves, been lots of problems discussed on here, some good experience's but most are bad. I find in the field that most people that own one of these stoves have some kind of issue that other stoves don't have.

 

[VCBurner]

Webby thanks for the reply. What are some of the things you've encountered with the Dutchwest large cat in the field? I'm a union carpenter. As a tradesman we see all sorts of conditions that are field specific and would never see on paper. I also have come to highly respect the opinion of other tradesmen. Could you comment on what sorts of problems you've seen. Also, have you found any issues with Vermont Castings catalytic Defiant Encore? Other than expensive parts and slightly small fire box (20" log.) This is another one I was looking at.

The negative things I've heard so far are that the Dutchwest is easily warped and difficult to fire, among others. Some have gone as far as saying it's a piece of junk. Most of these comments were made about the non-cat models. I've heard that originally, before they were purchased by Vermont Castings they were a very cheaply made stove. However, after they were bought out, VC fixed some of the problems. They also went out of busyness as a result of purchasing a bad company and fallen oil prices.

Are these negative comments a result of a "Dutchwest curse?" Vermont Castings has not been the same since they went under for the first time.

 

[VCBurner]

I've always liked the looks of those Dutchwest cat stoves, but I keep hearing there are too many parts inside to go wrong and they tend to be finicky to burn at times. Take a look at the ratings section on this site and check out the different models your interested in.

"Todd, thanks for the post. I spent hours researching all the ratings for VC: Vigilant, Defiant Encore, Dutchwest. Most owners were dissatisfied with the manufacturer in the majority of the reviews. The Dutchwest model 2461 got mostly good reviews. The non-cat versions of this stove got worse reviews. It seems interior parts are prone to warping. I sort of get it now! As in all aspects of life you get what you pay for. I don't have the money to buy a brand new stove. I also looked at the ratings for the Woodstock Fireview. You can't find a used one of these. Probably, because everyone loves them. WOW! This stove seems to get people tickled pink! So I'll probably go with the lesser of the three evils: the Dutchwest 2461 Cat. Knowing that i'll get a half way decent stove that is prone to warping and is manufactured by careless crooks. I'll keep my fingers crossed in hopes that I'll be one of the owners who are pleased."

 

[VCBurner]

I've burned a #2461 for a couple of years now and I like it pretty well. Good even heat, once the cat starts it puts out steady heat until time for reload, which for me is about every 6 hours, over night burns are good, I've used one match so far this year.Ash handleing is easy, the grate lets fine ash fall thru into the ash pan which I empty once a day, usually in the morning before I reload.
So far I have had no problems with this stove but one of the other posters point about dealing with VC is well taken, they are an unknown as far as service and parts at this time.

"Thank you Pineknot, good to hear from a happy owner! I hope you continue to be pleased with the Dutchwest. I hope I will too. Burn on!!"

 

[webby3650]

Webby thanks for the reply. What are some of the things you've encountered with the Dutchwest large cat in the field? I'm a union carpenter. As a tradesman we see all sorts of conditions that are field specific and would never see on paper. I also have come to highly respect the opinion of other tradesmen. Could you comment on what sorts of problems you've seen. Also, have you found any issues with Vermont Castings catalytic Defiant Encore? Other than expensive parts and slightly small fire box (20" log.) This is another one I was looking at.

The negative things I've heard so far are that the Dutchwest is easily warped and difficult to fire, among others. Some have gone as far as saying it's a piece of junk. Most of these comments were made about the non-cat models. I've heard that originally, before they were purchased by Vermont Castings they were a very cheaply made stove. However, after they were bought out, VC fixed some of the problems. They also went out of busyness as a result of purchasing a bad company and fallen oil prices.

Are these negative comments a result of a "Dutchwest curse?" Vermont Castings has not been the same since they went under for the first time.

Sorry for the delay, The negative things about Dutchwest I have heard in the field are: (all of the experiences are from experienced wood burners) "my stove will let out a big puff of smoke after it's up to temp./ "Cat won't stay engaged, I've tried everything./ "Sometimes this stove will get SOOO Hot during the cycle that I almost panic, then it calms down, no explanation, just goes crazy sometimes. And one customer that had an unbelievable amount of creosote after two years. (about 30 gallons in a single story flue)
I have a customer with a Defiant Cat stove that he has removed because the top keeps cracking on it. It cracked under warranty and was replaced by VC, the second time it was two days out of warranty, VC would do nothing about it, said he must be over firing it. I saw no signs of overfiring but who knows. He brought his old Fisher back in.

 

[summit]

I would stay away from the Dutchwest Catalytic stoves: too many parts, too often blown out, and they are quite tricky to run properly... a woodstock or BK would be a better choice in a CAT stove.

 

[VCBurner]

I would stay away from the Dutchwest Catalytic stoves: too many parts, too often blown out, and they are quite tricky to run properly... a woodstock or BK would be a better choice in a CAT stove.

Summit, thanks for the post. I see you are in the stove/chimney business. Do you own a stove shop? If so, do you sell the Dutchwest by VC? I was wondering, what are some of the problems you've encountered in the field? I've heard a lot of good things about Woodstock and BK but they are hard to find used. I don't have the budget for a new one.

 

[summit]

we really only sell the non cat VC and DW cast woodstoves (very few catalytic or gas)... we sell so many parts for the old catalytic ones that we coulda built a couple thousand by now... I run into burnt out parts on VC and DW Cat stoves alot. Any part you want to think of (although the outer shell usually holds up well, its all the parts inside) we replace or get for people tenfold over the year. They are pretty stoves (the wife will never tell you to take it back, especially after looking at a BK), throw pretty decent heat, but the reliability is lacking, and the operation takes a lot of getting used to. someone mentioned the backpuffs, and that is a common enough occurence to mention.

 

[bsa0021]

VCburner
If you can't afford a new stove why would you buy a used VC stove knowing that they are prone to parts failure. Anyone selling one of these stoves is probably selling it because of the issues mentioned in this post. Save your money and buy something new of better quality or look for a used stove of a different brand.

 

[VCBurner]

we really only sell the non cat VC and DW cast woodstoves (very few catalytic or gas)... we sell so many parts for the old catalytic ones that we coulda built a couple thousand by now... I run into burnt out parts on VC and DW Cat stoves alot. Any part you want to think of (although the outer shell usually holds up well, its all the parts inside) we replace or get for people tenfold over the year. They are pretty stoves (the wife will never tell you to take it back, especially after looking at a BK), throw pretty decent heat, but the reliability is lacking, and the operation takes a lot of getting used to. someone mentioned the backpuffs, and that is a common enough occurence to mention.

Thanks again Summit. I appreciate a professional opinion and will certainly consider it while making my selection. Burn on!

 

[VCBurner]

VCburner
If you can't afford a new stove why would you buy a used VC stove knowing that they are prone to parts failure. Anyone selling one of these stoves is probably selling it because of the issues mentioned in this post. Save your money and buy something new of better quality or look for a used stove of a different brand.

Thank you for the reply Bsa. The Dutchwest I was looking at is completely rebuilt so I hope it won't come with all the excess cement that is often mentioned by the new Dutch owners. Upon inspection the stove looks brand new. It is 6 years old and has a new catalyst. There are no warped parts and costs is just about a third of the price of a new one. I'm hoping that I can get by for about three years with the stove I buy. We are using two stoves to heat the house: an antique 1936 Atlanta Stoveworks Box #27 in the fireplace and a 1980 Surdiac Gotha 513 coal/wood stove in the basement. Together, they go through a lot of wood but heat the house well. I hope, buying a newer stove for the basement with longer burning time will get me by for the next couple of years. I've heard lots of good reports from people who burn these stoves and probably fewer bad ones. The majority of their customers are not happy with the company, which seems to have gone downhill after Majestic took over. After purchasing the stove I plan on rebuilding my Surdiac to put in the livingroom. The model Surdiac I have is not a good stove to primarily heat a house. It has a small firebox, the hopper clips stick out of the sides, preventing you from maximizing the use of the firebox space. It also has a small top loading door and glass fireview door which always breaks. Sorry for the longwinded quote. Thanks again for your reply! Take care.

 

[VCBurner]

Webby thanks for the reply. What are some of the things you've encountered with the Dutchwest large cat in the field? I'm a union carpenter. As a tradesman we see all sorts of conditions that are field specific and would never see on paper. I also have come to highly respect the opinion of other tradesmen. Could you comment on what sorts of problems you've seen. Also, have you found any issues with Vermont Castings catalytic Defiant Encore? Other than expensive parts and slightly small fire box (20" log.) This is another one I was looking at.

The negative things I've heard so far are that the Dutchwest is easily warped and difficult to fire, among others. Some have gone as far as saying it's a piece of junk. Most of these comments were made about the non-cat models. I've heard that originally, before they were purchased by Vermont Castings they were a very cheaply made stove. However, after they were bought out, VC fixed some of the problems. They also went out of busyness as a result of purchasing a bad company and fallen oil prices.

Are these negative comments a result of a "Dutchwest curse?" Vermont Castings has not been the same since they went under for the first time.

Sorry for the delay, The negative things about Dutchwest I have heard in the field are: (all of the experiences are from experienced wood burners) "my stove will let out a big puff of smoke after it's up to temp./ "Cat won't stay engaged, I've tried everything./ "Sometimes this stove will get SOOO Hot during the cycle that I almost panic, then it calms down, no explanation, just goes crazy sometimes. And one customer that had an unbelievable amount of creosote after two years. (about 30 gallons in a single story flue)
I have a customer with a Defiant Cat stove that he has removed because the top keeps cracking on it. It cracked under warranty and was replaced by VC, the second time it was two days out of warranty, VC would do nothing about it, said he must be over firing it. I saw no signs of overfiring but who knows. He brought his old Fisher back in.

Thanks again Webby!

 

[FireWalker]

I owned the next size bigger and ran it for 12 years. I replaced the cat once and did regular maintence on the door seals. If I had one piece of advise regarding operation of that stove it would have to be your wood supply.......If you are at all suspect that the wood you have now and are planning on burning this season is not really well seasoned do not buy that stove. That stove will burp smoke out the air inlets every night if you feed it partially seasoned wood. The cat cools below light off temp, smoke collects in the firebox ,the coals ignite the gasses and poooooooof you have a smelly house. If you get yourself truely one year ahead with your wood supply.......next years wood is stacked and covered while you are burning this years wood you will be fine with that stove.

 

[VCBurner]

I owned the next size bigger and ran it for 12 years. I replaced the cat once and did regular maintence on the door seals. If I had one piece of advise regarding operation of that stove it would have to be your wood supply.......If you are at all suspect that the wood you have now and are planning on burning this season is not really well seasoned do not buy that stove. That stove will burp smoke out the air inlets every night if you feed it partially seasoned wood. The cat cools below light off temp, smoke collects in the firebox ,the coals ignite the gasses and poooooooof you have a smelly house. If you get yourself truely one year ahead with your wood supply.......next years wood is stacked and covered while you are burning this years wood you will be fine with that stove.

"Thanks for the info Firewalker. As a newbie, I can use as many tips as possible.

 

[VCBurner]

I owned the next size bigger and ran it for 12 years. I replaced the cat once and did regular maintence on the door seals. If I had one piece of advise regarding operation of that stove it would have to be your wood supply.......If you are at all suspect that the wood you have now and are planning on burning this season is not really well seasoned do not buy that stove. That stove will burp smoke out the air inlets every night if you feed it partially seasoned wood. The cat cools below light off temp, smoke collects in the firebox ,the coals ignite the gasses and poooooooof you have a smelly house. If you get yourself truely one year ahead with your wood supply.......next years wood is stacked and covered while you are burning this years wood you will be fine with that stove.

"Thanks for the info Firewalker. As a newbie, I can use as many tips as possible.

"The trees for next year are down but not cut or split. Do you think I will have a problem?"

 

[FireWalker]

Some wood laying uncut on the ground, especially oak might as well be standing, it doesn't really dry out until it's cut up and split. Now if it's birch, ash, beech, or soft maple, get it split and stacked a.s.a.p. giving it all spring, summer and fall to season. If it's oak, forget about it, you won't be happy. I'm telling you, that stove is fussy, the owners manual goes on and on about how burning wood and finding the perfect stove settings is some sort of an art form. Well when it's cold outside and your feet are cold I'm not interested in art, I want fire and lots of it.

I spent a lot of nights feeding mine green wood until I smartened up and planned ahead........now doing this right is truely an art.

My old neighbor from Canada used to laugh at me cutting and splitting wood tha I planned to bund that winter. He was out there near everyday splitting a little wood at age 70. He always had 2 years worth of stacked and split hardwood outside and one years worth in the barn ready to go. Of course I had a day job, he was retired but something told me he had been doing it this way for many years.

 

[VCBurner]

Some wood laying uncut on the ground, especially oak might as well be standing, it doesn't really dry out until it's cut up and split. Now if it's birch, ash, beech, or soft maple, get it split and stacked a.s.a.p. giving it all spring, summer and fall to season. If it's oak, forget about it, you won't be happy. I'm telling you, that stove is fussy, the owners manual goes on and on about how burning wood and finding the perfect stove settings is some sort of an art form. Well when it's cold outside and your feet are cold I'm not interested in art, I want fire and lots of it.

I spent a lot of nights feeding mine green wood until I smartened up and planned ahead........now doing this right is truely an art.

My old neighbor from Canada used to laugh at me cutting and splitting wood tha I planned to bund that winter. He was out there near everyday splitting a little wood at age 70. He always had 2 years worth of stacked and split hardwood outside and one years worth in the barn ready to go. Of course I had a day job, he was retired but something told me he had been doing it this way for many years.

"Firewalker, as a result of last years ice storm, there are alot of downed trees around here. Probably enough for the next 3 years. I completely underestimated the amount of wood I was going to burn. I'd like to have another two cords for this season. I'll have start the process for the next three years very soon. I'll separate any oak to dry for at least 2 years. Should I do the same with maple?"

 

[FireWalker]

The maple will be fine if split when the snow is gone, stack it where it will get mid day sun on the side of your row, cover your rows with sheet metal roofing making sure to weigh the metal down so the wind dosn't blow it off.

If I were you, I would get it all split up and stack it so it's all mixed together, then when you do use it next year when you fill your wood box you should get some of each spicies. One big semi-seasoned oak split in the back of the stove mixed with some birch or maple in the front can be a good way to get a good long burn. As your stove will burn from the front to the back, when the fire reached that big chunk in the back it will be ready to give up all it's btu's.

 

[Pine Knot]

Firerwalker Is right, these stoves will burp smoke out on occasion. I had not connected it to "less than fully seasoned wood".
Since my stove doesnot burp during the cold weather and hot fires I thought the "shoulder season" was to blame. Live and learn.

 

[FireWalker]

Firerwalker Is right, these stoves will burp smoke out on occasion. I had not connected it to "less than fully seasoned wood".
Since my stove doesnot burp during the cold weather and hot fires I thought the "shoulder season" was to blame. Live and learn.

No, you could be right on atmospheric/outdoor conditions, although I found the best way to deal with shoulder season with that stove was to not engage the cat, just get a hot fire going and let it go out. Your right about hot fires in your DW cat, once you try dampering them down for long burns you are asking for trouble (smoke).