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Englander 30 First Fire Issue

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by 04HemiRam2500, Oct 31, 2013.

  1. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    Okay just fired the englander 30 for the first time today. My issue is that as soon as I close the door even with the damper open all the way out the fire keeps going down. If I open the door it goes back up? What is going on?

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  2. BCC_Burner

    BCC_Burner Feeling the Heat

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    How long after start up? Do you have an established coal bed? Does the fire die or do the flames just diminish a bit? You will get the fire to flare up violently by opening the door a crack, so it makes sense it will decrease in intensity a bit when closing the door, then pick back up as the burn cycle progresses.

    How did you load it to start your first fire? Is your wood properly seasoned?
  3. johnstra

    johnstra Feeling the Heat

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    When I had my 30, starting a fire in a cold stove I would let the latch hold the door open until the fire was going strong - about 10 mins. Then I'd close the door. My top-down fire would calm down noticeably when the door was closed but it was established enough to keep burning. Before long the entire load would be engulfed.
  4. Augie

    Augie Feeling the Heat

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    I have a couple of questions, and a solution maybe. Like BCC I think you are closing the door too soon.

    Do you have a flue thermometer? I use the Flue Thermometer along with the way the fire looks to determine when to close the door. If I close the door before the flue is up to 300ish degrees I will have issues maintaining the fire.

    Our stoves have a reduced air supply by design when cold, but with sufficient draft(when the system is warm) the air will be drawn into the firebox like they were designed for. To achieve sufficient draft my Flue thermometer needs to be at 300 degrees.

    If you dont have a Flue thermometer do you have a IR thermometer? A bit more infor will help us give you the information you want, thanks
  5. El Finko

    El Finko Member

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    I leave my door cracked for about the first 10-15 minutes if starting from scratch. By that time I have a nice little inferno going and I can shut the door.
    Then again, my 30 pulls like a freight train.
  6. BCC_Burner

    BCC_Burner Feeling the Heat

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    My 30 does not have a terribly strong draft (i.e. i get a little smoke spillage on reloads if I putz around with the door open too long. But now that I've started about 2 dozen fires I'm starting to get the hang of how to get a quick start.

    It has been cold where I live (highs in the upper 30's, low 40's, lows in the 20's) and I've been burning evenings only.

    I start my fires with 2 medium/large splits on the base, piece of kindling between them, then I stack progressively smaller splits log cabin style on top of those in a few layers. I put a small piece of Super Cedar on the top and the bottom of my cabin, light both, and leave the door cracked for 10 minutes or so. This usually gets me a nice blaze going, then I will add 2-3 more small splits on the stack, leave the door open for another 3-5 minutes, then close it down until that burns down to a coal bed.
  7. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    I can leave the door open to where the latch is against the stove and no smoke comes into the room. I have left the door open for about over an hour and I can not get the flue temp up to 300 it is now stuck at almost 250 what the heck is going on?
  8. BCC_Burner

    BCC_Burner Feeling the Heat

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    We need more specific information about how you started the fire, how you arranged your splits, kindling and fire starter placement, outside air temp, moisture content and type of wood, etc. Just to cover the true basics, the damper is wide open when the handle is fully out on the NC-30.
  9. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    Okay to start the fire I used some scrap 2 by 4 wood used newspaper and put the wood tee pee style it established well. So, no I put a big piece of dried wood. The wood was found dead in may and it has been split and stacked all summer so it is definitely dry!! The damper is pulled all the way out. It is 68 outside and wanted to heat the stove to get burn smell off. Door is still open flue temp will not go up.
  10. johnstra

    johnstra Feeling the Heat

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    When was your wood split/stacked? Do you have a moisture meter? If so, split a piece and check the MC. It should be 20% or below. If your wood is too wet, you're going to have problems.
  11. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    I do not have a moisture meter however this wood has to be dry it is dead months ago cracked every and clunks when you bang it. I tried closing the door just now and it tries to kill the fire. Then, when I open you see glowing red dots all over the log and the flame gets better. However, even with the door open like this I was expecting a large fire. Do you think it is a draft issue and I need to add more length to my chimney?
  12. johnstra

    johnstra Feeling the Heat

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    Most wood will still be too wet, even if it was dead when you found it, if it's only been split/stacked for 5-6 months. Oak can take 2 years or more to dry sufficiently. It sounds like your wood is just too wet. To confirm, go buy a few bundles of kiln-dried wood and try a load of that. Then you'll know for sure if it's your wood or not.
    CenterTree likes this.
  13. BCC_Burner

    BCC_Burner Feeling the Heat

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    Throw some more chunks of 2x4 in there, leave the door cracked till that flares up well, then close it down. This is a large stove that is soaking up a ton of heat just to get that 500 pounds of steel and brick hot. You need to feed this thing wood to get it good and hot when you're starting a fire, especially the fire few fires when the stove is curing.

    I prefer the log cabin arrangement over the tee pee for starts too, but that's my $0.02
  14. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    I thought about that but if I can not get it going with a large sized wood about the size of two to three pieces I do not want to keep adding wood for fear that it never gets the fire keep going.
  15. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    I'm more curious about the chimney and wood being used. Can you describe the chimney, wood(when was it C/S/S) and how you're running/loading the stove.
  16. Augie

    Augie Feeling the Heat

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    OK first issue is the 68 outside, that will make establishing draft an issue, if you are only getting 250 flue temps you have a issue somewhere, most likely based on the information you have supplied I am leaning towards your wood. For a test you can go get some BioBricks, or compressed sawdust logs, or you can use all 2x4's. Dont pack the stove full but put in a good amount, what your aiming for is a strong fire with the stove top near 300 and the flue above 300 before you close the door.

    YOu may just have really weak draft, what is the stack height for your chimney? distance from the top of the stove to the top of the flue?
  17. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    The chimney height is 15 to 16 feet tall total floor to top. I have two three foot pre fabbed sections for the chimney and about 6 feet of single wall inside. I will go get some more 2 by 4 and let you know if it flares up.
  18. Kaptain

    Kaptain Member

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    Part of the problem is that I think you are leaving the door open too far. You only need to leave it cracked - 1/8 of an inch or so.
    The temperature certainly is not helping your draft in this case...
  19. Augie

    Augie Feeling the Heat

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    When you leave the door open try this. Close the door all the way but dont latch it. Let it open on its own. you should have enough of an opening(1/8-1/4 of a inch ) to supply extra air and the smaller opening will supercharge the fire.
  20. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    I put more two by 4 in fire did get bigger flue temp not moving up also, now the wood is popping? Does anyone think adding extra pipe will help or no? I will close the door but not latch it shut let you know what happens.
  21. Augie

    Augie Feeling the Heat

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    your not waiting nearly long enough. let the fire get really going, since you are new to this it may almost seem like it is roaring out of control.

    Poping is ok that is the resin in the pine off gassing and cracking as it heats up

    Can you take some pictures?
  22. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    I added alot more 2x4 and now it is going flue temp is just over 300 should I add more wood and keep the door open? When should I close the door?
  23. 04HemiRam2500

    04HemiRam2500 Feeling the Heat

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    flue temp reached 400 shut the door damper still open for a little longer. Meter on stove top says it is 500
  24. weatherguy

    weatherguy Minister of Fire

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    If your draft is marginal based on the height of your chimney you may just always have problems when its warm out, best time to do this is when it get into the 40's and below.
  25. Augie

    Augie Feeling the Heat

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    Sounds like you are getting the hang, start closing the primary air little my little. Stove top will get above 600 maybe near 800 and you are still going great, you will see lots of secondary action, keep closing the damper until it is all the way closed. If things get out of control open the door all the way

    Opening the door all the way allows lots of cool air in to rapidly cool everything down... takes big cajonies to pull the door all the way open when the stove is 1000 degrees but it works...


    Yes I said open the Door not open the Damper

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