Finishing Basement: Stove Install Guidance Needed

[jigstick]

Im finishing my basement at the moment, which is approximately 1200sq ft, poured concrete foundation, concrete floor, and currently framed out with lumber. The ceilings are approx 8ft 6in. The entire basement is below grade. The exterior ribbon of the first floor is about 6in above grade, and is framed with 2x10.

I am going to attempt to install a coal stoker stove into the one corner of the basement…maybe a unit by Hitzer or Vermont Castings. I recently helped install a Hitzer in my buddys shop and the install went smooth. It vented through the roof. In western PA I can get anthracite pretty dam cheap. The stove would be to supplement my forced air furnace and to provide heat if our power went out.

I am fairly good with my hands, and have built a few additions and garages. I am lost as how to vent this coal stove from the basement. My home does not have a chimney. I believe what I need to do is this:

1:Excavate around the foundation to expose where I want the pipe to come through
2: Pour a footer and box it in with block to get me above grade
3: Cut a 13in hole through my foundation
4: Install the inside and outside thimbles
5: Install a triple walled stack to an appropriate height
6: Build my chase to enclose the stack

Does this sound right? If it does, can anybody help me out with some material specifications? I have been bouncing around the Q & A forum but I'm not finding the info the i think I need

 

[titleist1]

The coal stoker will need power the same as your primary heat system.

 

[begreen]

Why a 13" hole? Can you get a stove that takes a 6" chimney? If so all you need is an 8" hole to pass the class A pipe through. Use double-wall class A pipe instead of triple wall. No thimble required if going through solid concrete.

On the interior note that single wall connector pipe will need a minimum of 18" ceiling clearance. Double-wall pipe will need 9".

Is the basement insulated? If not, expect to lose about a third of the heat produced to the ground outside. That will make the fuel costs 33% higher.

 

[jigstick]

Ok well maybe it won't be an auto feed coal stove. The ones Im looking at only require electric to run the blower. I just assumed that you could hand feed a stoker if the power went out to the auger / feeder mechanism. I am finishing the basement currently. All outside walls will be insulated. I assumed the hole size based on the hole we needed to put through my buddys roof to run the triple wall pipe through for his coal stove. So because mine will be going through solid concrete, I don't need the thimble or triple wall? How do you trim out the hole in the wall around the pipe so it doesn't look "crappy"? And yes, I have plenty of clearance between the pipe and the basement ceiling. Thanks guys…keep the advice coming

 

[bholler]

no you cant hand load a stoker and it wont burn without the combustion blower. You could also consider going straight up with it instead of out the wall it is easier and cheaper. What ever you do make sure you get chimney pipe rated for coal. It needs to be 316ti not 304. Also dont forget to put in the barometric damper

 

[begreen]

Ok well maybe it won't be an auto feed coal stove. The ones Im looking at only require electric to run the blower. I just assumed that you could hand feed a stoker if the power went out to the auger / feeder mechanism. I am finishing the basement currently. All outside walls will be insulated. I assumed the hole size based on the hole we needed to put through my buddys roof to run the triple wall pipe through for his coal stove. So because mine will be going through solid concrete, I don't need the thimble or triple wall? How do you trim out the hole in the wall around the pipe so it doesn't look "crappy"? And yes, I have plenty of clearance between the pipe and the basement ceiling. Thanks guys…keep the advice coming

You'll need to keep any and all combustibles at least 2" away from the class A pipe. Bring it into the room at least 6" past the inside wall. You can insulate the space around it with Roxul mineral insulation. They make an inside trim ring. I suppose you could use the thimble components without using the through the wall collar too.

 

[xman23]

Recently I spent an evening in a large house with a Hitzer coal stove., (think it was). I got talking to the home owner about it. He said its made in PA, and he got the larger stove. His wife said she can't get the coal to burn. He said he gets a wood fire going then adds a little coal. It was a real big stove the thermometer was at 600 and the blower was going. No automatic stoaker, and I don't know if you need the blower all the time.

 

[begreen]

You might also want to join the NE PA coal forum. They can help you pick out a stove.
www.nepacrossroads.com

 

[jigstick]

To get my Buddys Hitzer going we get a small fire going with wood until there is a nice base of coals. Then we put in maybe two handfuls of anthracite. Thats it. Open up the air from below, and open the choke. Once that little bit of anthracite catches, we add a little bit more. And so on and so on. Once we have a nice solid layer of anthracite going, we shovel in another layer…until you can barely see the lit coals. then start choking the stove down. It will burn for 8-12hrs with out needing fed.

Unfortunately I can not vent my stove straight up. There is no room to run it up through the first and second floors of my house….at least no place convenient. I have to somehow get the stove pipe out horizontally through the basement wall. If I were to dig down approximately 40inches on the outside of the foundation, that would keep me 2ft below the basement ceiling, and leave me room to pour a footer on the outside for the chase to sit on. However, If I need to put a clean out on the bottom of the stack, it will be impossible to get to once the chase is finished with vinyl. Could I just disconnect the stove on the inside and stick a shop vac through the wall and into the clean out?

This is the Hitzer my buddy has, and one I am considering

http://www.hitzer.com/products/stove/Model-254-Stove/

 

[bholler]

Could I just disconnect the stove on the inside and stick a shop vac through the wall and into the clean out?

Yeah that will work fine. I would also look at harmans and alaskas as well they are all good ones. And no you dont need a blower running on those for them to work

 

[jigstick]

The blower on my buddys Hitzer just forces the air out of the stove. I don't believe it is blowing air "into" the burn box.

As for a hearth, I was going to pour a small pad on the concrete floor, but it up to the corner of the walls. Then tile or stone finish it. I was thinking to cover the walls on the sides of it with some tile or stone as well. Do i just rough frame those walls with lumber, keeping required clearances in mind of course, and hang some cement board for the tile? Or is there a more heat resistant product to use instead of the cement board?

 

[bholler]

The blower on my buddys Hitzer just forces the air out of the stove. I don't believe it is blowing air "into" the burn box.

No those stoves are natural draft no blower needed. You wont get near as much heat off them with out it but it will work fine.

Do i just rough frame those walls with lumber, keeping required clearances in mind of course, and hang some cement board for the tile? Or is there a more heat resistant product to use instead of the cement board?

I would use steel studs and then cement board and backer that way there are no combustibles to worry about.

 

[titleist1]

I suggest you use a T instead of a 90* that leads to any horizontal section of flue pipe. Keep the T capped and every ton of coal or so, remove the cap and vac out the fly ash that will lay in the horizontal pipe. Making it easy to do like this will encourage frequent cleaning of the horizontal sections. You may be able to go longer than a ton, but if it is easy why chance it. If you only burn coal in it you will have minimal fly ash on the vertical part of the chimney.

I also recommend getting a manometer or magnehelic gauge and leaving it connected to the flue pipe so you can keep an eye on your draft. Depending on which stove you get there may be internal places where fly ash accumulates and impedes your draft, the manometer will give you a heads up on that before CO becomes an issue.

As mentioned a baro damper may help minimize heat heading up teh chimney if your install has a particularly strong draft.

 

[jigstick]

Thank you for all of the insight. I am going to swap out the lumber and frame with metal in the corner where the stove is going. When it comes to covering the studs with heat resistant fiberboard...can somebody recommend a product by name so I can track some down locally? And will tile adhere to it?

That's a great idea about putting a T in the horizontal section. Does the horizontal section need to have any rise in it? It will only be about 18in long before it goes through the wall. I thought I read somewhere that horizontal sections need like 1/4in of rise per horizontal ft of run.

The chimney on the outside of the house will be over 30ft high. And will have two 90 degree elbows..one in the basement going from the stove to the wall....-and the other at the base of the chimney on the outside to get it going vertical. The chimney will be in a chase. Should I anticipate problems with draft with a chimney like this?

And what is the difference between double wall insulated pipe and triple wall pipe? Which would be better for my chimney? I'm reading about the two but it is confusing.

 

[begreen]

Durock NexGen cement board. It will be hard to put much rise in that 18" tee snout. Just make it level. With that tall a chimney you many need a key damper in the flue connector pipe off the stove. Triple wall class A (DuraPlus) is a value line. I prefer to their DuraTech double-wall class A. It's less bulky to work with and requires a smaller hole through the wall.

 

[jigstick]

Well its been a LONG time since I posted to this thread, but this project is back on.

My plan now is to use a core drill to get the hole through my poured wall foundation. I think I need a 6 or 8 inch hole. On the outside of the house I will have to excavate around the foundation to get down to the level where the pipe will come through the wall. Im guessing this well is going to be 3-4ft deep. Ill pour a footer and lay block to get above grade.

Once I get pipe through the wall I plan on running the pipe up the side of the house, through the roof overhang. And Ill frame out a "casing" to go around the chimney with lumber, resting the "casing" on the block and footer. Then Ill sheet the framing and cover with vinyl siding to match the house.

I still need to install the outside thimble I believe? Which will have a T on the bottom and clean out with cap? Once I have the chase framed and sided with vinyl I won't have access to that clean out / thimble. But I think I clean it out from the inside by detaching the double wall pipe and sticking my shop vac in there?

As for the stove, I'm still trying to figure out what to get. Since the basement floor and walls are concrete in the area I plan on putting the stove I have plenty of options. But I would like to keep the clearance from the back of the stove to the wall as small as possible. Im thinking of doing a small brick hearth and maybe brick up the wall behind the stove. Does this sound like a good plan?

 

[bholler]

Well its been a LONG time since I posted to this thread, but this project is back on.

My plan now is to use a core drill to get the hole through my poured wall foundation. I think I need a 6 or 8 inch hole. On the outside of the house I will have to excavate around the foundation to get down to the level where the pipe will come through the wall. Im guessing this well is going to be 3-4ft deep. Ill pour a footer and lay block to get above grade.

Once I get pipe through the wall I plan on running the pipe up the side of the house, through the roof overhang. And Ill frame out a "casing" to go around the chimney with lumber, resting the "casing" on the block and footer. Then Ill sheet the framing and cover with vinyl siding to match the house.

I still need to install the outside thimble I believe? Which will have a T on the bottom and clean out with cap? Once I have the chase framed and sided with vinyl I won't have access to that clean out / thimble. But I think I clean it out from the inside by detaching the double wall pipe and sticking my shop vac in there?

As for the stove, I'm still trying to figure out what to get. Since the basement floor and walls are concrete in the area I plan on putting the stove I have plenty of options. But I would like to keep the clearance from the back of the stove to the wall as small as possible. Im thinking of doing a small brick hearth and maybe brick up the wall behind the stove. Does this sound like a good plan?

If it is for coal just build a block chimney with a clay liner. That is the most durable for coal.

 

[HomeinPA]

If it is for coal just build a block chimney with a clay liner. That is the most durable for coal.

That'll work as long as he goes all the way to the original footer of the house to lay the footer for the chimney. Otherwise the backfill dirt would continue to settle and eventually the chimney would pull away from the house.

I have a similar setup to what you're doing except I have a block foundation. I dug a hole 3' deep, 2'wide and about 3' out from the house first then framed it out with treated wood like a window well. They also make drop in plastic window wells now. Then put in a hole for your class A chimney - I installed a 9" terracotta crock in the wall and slid the 6" id chimney inside it. Mounted the exterior wall bracket up by the ledger board with the T and chimney section below it to match the hole. Went up the side of the house and elbowed around the overhang and gutter so I didn't have to put a hole in the roof and finished it with a roof brace up top. Now, when push comes to shove and I need to get to the bottom of the cleanout I can get my big ass down on the ground and just barely reach the cap and remove it. Not that I ever need to as I clean it out from the inside. But I did knock it off one time with the brush and rods when cleaning .

Something else to keep in mind - Maintenance of the chimney is going to be crucial if you're burning coal and expect it to last. You need a fine bristle poly brush and you need to be on it as soon as you're done for the season. Clean it well and neutralize it, put a box of baking soda in the horizontal connector and pull the connector pipes and clean them out too. Coal will eventually eat through any stainless steel given enough time and/or lack of maintenance. Everything you can do to keep it clean and dry will help extend the life.

 

[bholler]

That'll work as long as he goes all the way to the original footer of the house to lay the footer for the chimney. Otherwise the backfill dirt would continue to settle and eventually the chimney would pull away from the house.

I have a similar setup to what you're doing except I have a block foundation. I dug a hole 3' deep, 2'wide and about 3' out from the house first then framed it out with treated wood like a window well. They also make drop in plastic window wells now. Then put in a hole for your class A chimney - I installed a 9" terracotta crock in the wall and slid the 6" id chimney inside it. Mounted the exterior wall bracket up by the ledger board with the T and chimney section below it to match the hole. Went up the side of the house and elbowed around the overhang and gutter so I didn't have to put a hole in the roof and finished it with a roof brace up top. Now, when push comes to shove and I need to get to the bottom of the cleanout I can get my big ass down on the ground and just barely reach the cap and remove it. Not that I ever need to as I clean it out from the inside. But I did knock it off one time with the brush and rods when cleaning .

Something else to keep in mind - Maintenance of the chimney is going to be crucial if you're burning coal and expect it to last. You need a fine bristle poly brush and you need to be on it as soon as you're done for the season. Clean it well and neutralize it, put a box of baking soda in the horizontal connector and pull the connector pipes and clean them out too. Coal will eventually eat through any stainless steel given enough time and/or lack of maintenance. Everything you can do to keep it clean and dry will help extend the life.

We spray a can of wd40 down stainless coal flues at the end of the season and it seems to help quite a bit.