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Floor support - F600 & Progress Hybrid

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Stephen Schumaker, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. Stephen Schumaker

    Stephen Schumaker New Member

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    I'm replacing my old VC Encore (the catalytic box went bad after many years) I had decided on the Jotul F600 but started reading about the Woodstock Progress Hybrid. I would appreciate any thoughts on these two stoves. My additional problem is the stove will be in a large room built on pylons with a crawl space. The Progress Hybrid is 700 lbs. according to the literature. It looks like I will need to reinforce the floor to support a Progress. I will have less than three feet to work in the crawl space. I'm thinking a small steel beam on small floor jacks but getting a good base under it may be difficult. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.

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  2. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    They are both nice stoves. I'm kinda partial to Jotul though!:)
    Unless you have an unusually weak floor system, no extra reinforcement is needed.
  3. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I think it is a legitimate concern. Residential floor loading is usually figured at 30 to 40 pounds per square foot live load. Where it bends, not collapses. I have the same concern with my raised hearth even though it has reinforced cantilevered concrete below it. The hearth has separated from the front of the fireplace with the front half of a 650 pound insert on it because I would pull it all the way out on the hearth for chimney cleaning.

    Reinforce that floor. I am sure more construction savvy members will ring in.
  4. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Hey, I'm construction savvy! :p I install a few dozen stoves a year with no issues. Most of the time we are hauling out an old 700 lb. monster that has been sitting there since the 70's.
    Our store has been doing it for 40 years with no issues to date, as far as I know.

    I'm not saying that it shouldn't be given a look, but it's uncommon for a typical home to need special reinforcing.
    alforit likes this.
  5. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    The very "high end" builder, who did most of the work on my house for the previous owners, will never know the number of problems he has caused for me.
  6. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Let me ask you this. Do you ever worry about 3 adults standing face to face having a conversation in your home? How about a party with 10 or 12 adults in your living room? We often have 3 or 4 people standing around our 600+ lb. stove and would never worry about a thing.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  7. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    Well, the PH is 700 lb, and holds maybe 70 lb of wood. Add in some hearth tools, maybe some extra wood in a rack near the stove, and then a 200 lb guy standing over it loading. Now we're talking about 1000 lb. if you know any three adults that weigh that much, then tell them to go split some wood for you and get some exercise!

    The bigger issue is the small footprint of at least 800 of those 1000 lbs, and the fact that it is a static load. Many houses will be up to this, but better safe than sorry.

    A structural engineer will be under $500, should you think one necessary. For stuff like this, I just do my own figuring = overkill.
    Warm_in_NH and Highbeam like this.
  8. tekguy

    tekguy Feeling the Heat

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    is it possible to just sister in a few new joists in the rights areas using hanger brackets? should be simple enough, is there any bounce in the floor right now?
  9. Nick Mystic

    Nick Mystic Minister of Fire

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    Nothing wrong with adding a little additional support in the crawl space if for no reason than a little extra piece of mind. I've had similar support needs under my shop when I move in a piece of heavy equipment. An inexpensive fix is to buy one or two 4" thick cap blocks and a pressure treated 4x4 post. Locate the floor joist(s) in the crawl space directly under where the stove will be located. Position the cap block under the joist and then measure how long the post needs to be for a snug fit. Cut the post and tap it into place between the cap block and bottom of the joist. If you measure a little long on the post you can use a heavy rubber mallet to beat the cap block a bit lower into the dirt floor. If you measure a bit too short you can use some small wedges to snug up the fit. The wedges should go between the top of the post and floor joist.
  10. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    Not sure what it is that you are calling pylons. Could this floor be described as thisck decking laying on top of parallel beams spaced apart every 5 feet or so which are supported from below by vertical posts every 8 feet or so along the beams? The posts set on concrete cookies usually. Post and beam?

    This is how my floor was built and while it would certainly hold three fat chicks, it might not hold three fat chicks backed up to a 1000 lb stove full of fire while they jump up and down grooving to "the devil went down to georgia" by Charlie Daniels.

    I added reinforcement beneath my stove which was a 500# stone stove before my current lighter weight BK. No harm will be done by adding support and it is cheap. Three feet is a generous crawlspace with plenty of room to work.

    Go to the home depot and buy their premade pyramid shaped pier blocks with the single hole in top. Then you buy the little post saddles that are threaded and include a big nut and washer which you stick into the hole of the pier block and now you have an adjustable support for a post. You will be adding more posts and beams to support the stove from below. You can go back later and tighten up the washers to maintain vertical support.

    Crawlspaces make this job easy.
    Joful likes this.
  11. charly

    charly Guest

    My 1840 Farmhouse has a big beamed floor system.. Mortised beams into big sill plates.. I installed adjustable columns , 2, right under my hearth area just to be safe when I built my new hearth and installed my Fireview, just to be safe... Now that the Progress is replacing the Fireview, I'm glad I added the support.. In my mind there's no saying I was going to and now look,, the floor moved and the pipe came apart while we were out... That Progress moved there be no sheet metal screws holding anything together. Now the floor strength question has been eliminated.;) I know we talk about people standing around and displacing that same amount if not more weight, but this is a 24/7 year after year load in a small area... Support was a piece of mind for me.. Simple and Quick..
    Joful likes this.
  12. charly

    charly Guest

    Basically what I did.. Worked great, in fact when I took my Fireview off the hearth, I went down and tensioned my jacks with out any weight on them.. got about a half a turn... Glad I install them.. Takes a bad situation out of the picture ;lol
  13. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Here's a picture of a pier block and adjustable bracket. PIER-Bracket-web.jpg

    Here is a set of them supporting a deck extension. PIER-Bracket-deck.jpg
  14. charly

    charly Guest

    My block had a squared out area for a timber and in my case I just place the foot plate of my adjustable lolly column ..I look at it as simple overkill..
  15. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    It sounds like there's no room for a lolly column in l-2ft above the pier block. I think in tight areas like this crawl space that this method will work easiest.
  16. charly

    charly Guest

    I sent away for jacks that were adjustable from 3-4 ft... As one part of my basement is only like 5 feet or so.. They worked great..
  17. Tenn Dave

    Tenn Dave Feeling the Heat

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    Never a bad idea to add extra support when you're talking about 700 to 1000 lbs of extra weight. Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.!!!!!
    charly and Backwoods Savage like this.
  18. Tenn Dave

    Tenn Dave Feeling the Heat

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    Both stoves are great and you will probably be happy with either. I am somewhat partial toward Woodstock because of the unmatched customer service.
    charly and Backwoods Savage like this.
  19. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    The truth is, you are unlikely to find the kind of answer you are looking for. You likely aren't gonna find anybody that has had both stoves. Most people are partial to the stove they have and aren't gonna say anything bad about it.
  20. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    Well, this may be unfair, as today's Jotul Firelight has nothing in common with my old Firelights other than outward appearance, but... I'd probably buy the Woodstock PH over any Jotul, if forced to replace my Jotul Firelights today.

    Why? The PH is a cat stove, with better burn time, wider range of burn rate, and better overall efficiency. I also like that Woodstock goes out of their way to make their technical folks available to the customer, while Jotul makes every possible effort to hide (and even refuse!) direct support to the customer. The only thing the Jotul has going for it is that it's a much prettier stove, and that's a more subjective thing.
    charly and Backwoods Savage like this.
  21. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    These are the ones. They're great but be warned that you can tighten the nut so hard as to jack your floor up. You can also bury the pier block as needed if you find that you don't have enough space for block, saddle, post, and beam. Certainly be sure that the pier block is on firm and level soil.

    Since most soil has at least 1500 lbs per square foot of bearing capacity, you won't need many of these.
  22. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Isn't it nice to have such great choices?!

    As for reinforcement. It costs so little to have peace of mind so if you think you should, then do it. We did it even with our little 500 lb Fireview. Floor is still level so it is okay with us.
    charly and Tenn Dave like this.
  23. charly

    charly Guest

    I will say one thing about a Woodstock stove,,, It's a pleasure shaking the hand of the people who built your stove in this day and age! I have people 3 hours from me that would personally help me out with any problem I might ever have with their product. I could walk in there with a part or what ever I felt was an issue, and have someone personally take care of me... That's Woodstock! Tell me who else would let you walk into their factory and treat you with open arms to resolve any issues? This is a stove company , because of their great ethics are in a league of their own,,, and now they are being rewarded by a loyal following....Any other stove company could have gone the same route, but Woodstock apparently has taken the right route! Their customers say it all ;)
  24. Tenn Dave

    Tenn Dave Feeling the Heat

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    As I said in another thread - Woodstock has the best customer service in the wood stove industry !
    fox9988 and Backwoods Savage like this.
  25. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    All hail Woodstock! ;lol
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