Frustrated with my Orlan 60...any one wanna buy it?! Or help me?! Long read...sorry. Just.Need.He

[Gilby]

Hey again - recap...I have a Orlan 60 wood boiler. I inherited this machine when I bought the house. I have a ton of questions, but not sure where to even start...so I'm just going to give you a run down of my last few days.

I have a large house - 4700 sq ft. - no hot water storage. I have an electric furnace and a gas furnace on opposite ends of the house. They both have hot water coils. I have asked for advice on settings in the past and have taken all of it.

We were out of town for thanksgiving so I let my boiler burn out and cool off as to be safe while away. We returned Sunday afternoon - to about 45 degree weather outside. I immediately started a fire and heated up my boiler. Both thermostats in my house were at about 66 degrees or so. I got a fire burning and got the boiler up to temp. I try to turn one furnace on at a time and heat up each side of the house, respectively, so as not to cool off the water temp in the boiler. It generally takes me several hours to get through this whole process - on a day/night when it's not too cold. One of my problems is I load up the chamber with logs until I can't fit any more in at 10 o'clock at night...and with my house up to temp on a moderately cold night...I get up at 5 and if I'm lucky it'll be at 165 with only a few coals left in the chamber. Without storage (which will be installed next summer if I remember in June how pissed I am in December) is there any way to get a longer burn out of the wood in my chamber??

The past four days have been the worst. I had been letting fire burn out at 5 in the morning since no one is home during the day. Then I start the whole process over again at 5:30 when I get home after work. The problem is the past few nights have been down to single digits outside. This morning was 2 degrees. My house gets cold - like 64 - and I can't for the life of me get it warmed up again. I'll get the boiler up to 172 or so...but as soon as the water is circulating and my furnace(s) is/are blowing cold air on the coils, my boiler temp drops to 144 or so. I open the chamber doors, get the fired burning big again, go in and shut down both furnaces, and let it heat back up to 170 (30 minutes later). By that time, any heat my house has gained is lost and I'm back at square one. With 170 on the boiler and 64 in the house. I turn a furnace back on, bam, water temp is back down to 150. I learned my lesson on not letting it burn out because its incredibly hard to get my house heated back up. Its been a viscous cycle and I'm so horribly frustrated I'm about ready to take it down and sell it and use the funds to pay for propane and electricity! Actually...At this point, I already am paying to heat it anyway and I'm just wasting wood to heat a garage that's already too small and smells like smoke. I've burned an incredible amount of wood trying to figure this thing out - and haven't heated my house one bit.

When my house is up to temp, it functions very well. But I've only had it working really well when I've been home for two or three consecutive days to get it going. I started at 5:30 last night and at 11:30 I told everyone to cover up cause it was going to be a chilly night. My house was still at 66 degrees and the boiler was hovering at 156. Along with everything else, I set my circulating settings (P144 up to 170…and Ph4 to a 5), but then when my house is 66 degrees and the furnaces are on...blowing the cold air from my fan...and my water temp isn't high enough to circulate...my house is basically getting air conditioned. Am I right? Or not even close?

All I know is my house is cold, the boiler isn’t working like I know it should and I'm bitter and frustrated. I need you guys to help a brother out!! The guy that sold me the house said "the house gets so hot during the winter we had to open windows." That means there's no way to control the heat and keep the boiler from getting too hot except to have the furnaces running to keep the water temp down...which seems dumb cause who wants a house thats too hot.....or two, he lied through his teeth. UGH!

 

[FGZ]

He was probably telling the truth and had some tricks up his sleeve - are you able to track him down for some friendly questions? I was going to suggest insulation solutions first as it has made a big difference in my heating needs, but based on what the other guy said maybe it is not an issue.

Also, something that has helped us keep our oil usage down a lot this (so far mild) winter is using electric space heaters a little more because oil is so much higher than electricity.


And on an unrelated side note, I'm kind of surprised to hear someone from Wyoming call 66 cold. We're from TX where 66 is cold, but now living just North of Boston where folks take pride in not turning on their heat until late November if possible.

 

[Gilby]

I called the previous owner a few times when I first started using it...his reply was "it's not rocket science." I stopped calling.

66 in my house...when it's 2 degrees outside...with a 3 year old and 1 year old...in December. Gets a tad chilly.

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

Yes, it sounds like you're beating a dead horse there. I may have missed it, you don't have water inlet temp protection? A cold boiler does not transfer heat well so it needs to be kept hot with an inlet mixer of some sort. I'm a believer in storage & don't think a gasser should be installed without. Others may come up with something better, all I can think of is to put a ball valve before your plenum exchangers to slow the flow some & try to get through till spring, Randy

 

[goosegunner]

How is your wood quality?

Moisture content?

Sounds like maybe less than ideal wood but a lot of other things need to be known

Heat loss of home

Btu output of coils

Pipe size and water flow

gg

 

[Gilby]

I don't have the aquastat...yet. Need to get one ordered and installed.

Wood quality has been good in the past weeks when it hasn't been so cold outside or my house was up to temp. Same wood...same pile. I thought the same thing, but I don't think there's any reason for it to be inconsistent when its the same wood. It got snowed on last week and still burned well. Its just recently as it got cold that I've been having the problems.

Would an aquastat help ease the troubles?

 

[Gilby]

Heat loss of home

Btu output of coils

Pipe size and water flow

sounds naive...but I don't know. Didn't purchase it...didn't install it. I'm not the most mechanical person you've ever met. Just a sleazy insurance salesman. :cheese:

 

[stee6043]

Any idea what your heat load is (what is your heat loss)? I highly doubt your house is too big for an Orlan 60 if it's similar output to the EKO 60's. But if you are pushing 50/60/70,000 btu/hr loss during the night it's probably not unreasonable that you would only see 6 or 7 hour burn times on a full fire box, depending on the output of the Orlan 60.

For what it's worth your boiler should not be operating at less than 160 +/- once it's running unless your return protection/bypass loop is not functioning properly. Pump-on at 160 should be your min. Sometimes I'll run 158 pump on if I'm really desperate but typically I don't go any lower. 144 is just wasting electricity (in my case) with water/air HX's in furnaces.

One last note - one of the least efficient ways to run ANY heating system is to let your house cool significantly between cycles. The work required to bring your house back up to normal/livable temps far outweighs what you might be saving by letting it cool when nobody is home (talking about daily operation here, not leaving for weeks). Same is true with the boiler itself if you're running sans storage. Find a way to keep that beauty running 24/7 like turning the output temp down once you get everything up to temp (house included). You might idle a little more but it should extend your burn times.

 

[Gilby]

One last note - one of the least efficient ways to run ANY heating system is to let your house cool significantly between cycles.

I learned my lesson on that one. Now I need a 30 degree day to get that puppy running. Might hve to burn some propane and electricity to heat the house up to temp and then let the boiler take over ... instead of letting the boiler try to do all the work.

Storage this summer.........

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Most of what I will say has been said B4. But you got to start somewhere, and the Basics is a good place.

Plan on a continuous burn.

Stop worring that storage is going to solve anything for you. Storage works great when you have EXCESS heat, which you clearly do NOT have.

Those W2A HX's like HOT water I hear. You need to STOP running lukewarm water through them.

Disconect the loads. Get the 60 up to operating temps (170-190). Can you keep it there with no load? If so, start adding load slowly. Can you maintain operating temps from the 60?

One last question . . . Why are the other two furnaces not kicking on to keep the house from freezing?

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

One last note - one of the least efficient ways to run ANY heating system is to let your house cool significantly between cycles.

I learned my lesson on that one. Now I need a 30 degree day to get that puppy running. Might hve to burn some propane and electricity to heat the house up to temp and then let the boiler take over ... instead of letting the boiler try to do all the work.

Storage this summer.........

Storage has it's place. Storage is NOT going to fix this problem. If you can't maintain the 60 at operating temps, you will never have extrat to put in storage. For now, focus on the fundamentals, forget about storage.

 

[willworkforwood]

.... Wood quality has been good in the past weeks when it hasn't been so cold outside or my house was up to temp. Same wood...same pile. I thought the same thing, but I don't think there's any reason for it to be inconsistent when its the same wood. ....

Not intending to be insulting here, but are you sure about that? How and when did you get this supply of wood? Have you resplit any of what you have and tested the inside surfaces with a moisture meter? (your boiler will be progressively less efficient as the MC rises above 20%).

 

[Gilby]

Stop worring that storage is going to solve anything for you. Storage works great when you have EXCESS heat, which you clearly do NOT have.

Those W2A HX’s like HOT water I hear. You need to STOP running lukewarm water through them.

Disconect the loads. Get the 60 up to operating temps (170-190). Can you keep it there with no load? If so, start adding load slowly. Can you maintain operating temps from the 60?

One last question . . . Why are the other two furnaces not kicking on to keep the house from freezing?

My bad. Everyone says how great storage is and how it cuts down on wood. I see what you're saying though.

I'm guessing "disconnect the loads" means shut those furnace fans off while it builds temp? Yes, it'll maintain for the most part. Once it starts circulating it'll drop. It used to climb and climb, but seems recently it does struggle to get up to 175. I suppose that could be a wood issue. I tried turning one furnace on and only setting the temp one degree above what it was at and inching it up, but as soon as it gets any air from the furnace, it drops the temp quickly.

Each furnace has two thermostats - one for the boiler - the other to operate when the boiler isn't in use. I was under the impression you chose one or the other. When the boiler is functioning, I shut the other two thermostats off completely and control the temp by the boiler stat. Can I set the electric to 68 and the boiler to 70? Or what's the best way to get after that?

Appreciate the help!

 

[Gilby]

Not intending to be insulting here, but are you sure about that? How and when did you get this supply of wood? Have you resplit any of what you have and tested the inside surfaces with a moisture meter? (your boiler will be progressively less efficient as the MC rises above 20%).

A moisture meter is getting beyond my committment level! I bought the house October 14th. With moving and running a business and kids, I chose not to go get wood. I bought a semi load of logs. Literally the wood I used on Monday was the same tree - literally - as the wood I used on Wednesday. Not sure what could be different......

 

[FGZ]

"Logs" as in you just cut and split them right before burning, or a semi load of cut, split, seasoned wood?

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

I know basically NOTHING about the W2A HX, since I run radient. But if the 60 will not get to 180 °F and keep it there with no loads applied, that is one problem.

If the 60 will maintain 180 NUTIL load is applied, that is prolly a different problem.

I also know very little about the OrlanEKOBio or other Euro-style forced down-draft unit, but there are a lot of guys here that seem to use them very sucessfully. Don't scrap it . . . diagnose it.

FWIW, the first year learning curve with wood-fired hydronics can be a bi+ch!

 

[Fred61]

If you got your load of wood this spring or summer and either left it in log length 'til now or even cut, split, stacked and covered it this year, it is too green/wet to burn this fall in a gasser. The wood I'm burning is nearly three years old and I try to stay at least two years ahead.

 

[mr.fixit]

Not intending to be insulting here, but are you sure about that? How and when did you get this supply of wood? Have you resplit any of what you have and tested the inside surfaces with a moisture meter? (your boiler will be progressively less efficient as the MC rises above 20%).

A moisture meter is getting beyond my committment level! I bought the house October 14th. With moving and running a business and kids, I chose not to go get wood. I bought a semi load of logs. Literally the wood I used on Monday was the same tree - literally - as the wood I used on Wednesday. Not sure what could be different......

If you don't have some idea of the moisture level of the wood you will never have good results with the boiler.
If the wood was a log last week and sitting out in the snow forget about it gassifing nice.
And it will take some wood-4500sq.ft. is alot to heat but I heat a little less than that with a EKO 40.
When you think its burning properly does it smoke any out the chimney? It shouldn't smoke much at all.
You should be able to look at the quality of the flame by opening the bottom chamber (with the damper closed)
Have the Heat exchanger tubes on the boiler ever been cleaned?

 

[guy01]

Have you cleaned your heat exchange tubes won't take much creasote to hurt your efficiency
just a thought
Guy

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Can you access some decent wood with a suitable mc% and use that as a test? (Not sure what would be availible in your area, put perhaps some kiln dried stuff that comes shrink wrapped atthe convenince store....or perhaps a neighbor with some seasoned wood you can trade something for..i.e. a case aof beer or something)

 

[maple1]

Can you access some decent wood with a suitable mc% and use that as a test? (Not sure what would be availible in your area, put perhaps some kiln dried stuff that comes shrink wrapped atthe convenince store....or perhaps a neighbor with some seasoned wood you can trade something for..i.e. a case aof beer or something)

I'd try this - even if you have to go buy some bio bricks or something. And make sure it's clean first (the furnace, that is). It's kind of sounding here like your wood is too wet - or at least that's part of the problem. I would think the 60 should be able to overcome that heat load at these outside temps quite easily. Don't give up on it!

 

[taxidermist]

This is a classic case of too wet of wood.........spend a few bucks on a moisture meter split a log and test + 35% = problems. I bet we can get ya going but you first must tell us more about your wood you bought.


Rob

 

[Gilby]

Sounds like I"m guilty of bad wood. He dropped them off the trailer four weeks ago. I cut a bunch each weekend and am building a nice pile. Definitely green still by the sounds of it. There was a large pile of old wood my dad brough down for me...but while I burned that, I didn't have the boiler adjusted to where it is now and wasn't doing anything. In the mean time, the load of logs was placed on top of my stack of old dry wood. Oops.

Have you cleaned your heat exchange tubes won’t take much creasote to hurt your efficiency
just a thought

I have no idea what the heat exchange tubes are...or where. It's probably never been cleaned...I certainly haven't done anything more than clean out the ash from the bottom chamber.

 

[maple1]

They'd likely dirty up pretty darned quick with wet wood too.

 

[guy01]

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Orlan-gasification-boiler.html
here is a cutaway view so you can see what to clean
Guy