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Furious with my chimney installer

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Ashful, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. Ashful

    Ashful Minister of Fire

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    In this case, it was the owner / sole proprietor, who did the install. This guy is dead honest, as far as I know, but he's very sloppy. I'm sure he doesn't even see the problem with what he did, and wasn't trying to screw me. There's just no dealing with folks like that.

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  2. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I would install a thimble on the thing. Pretending that it is a hole in the wall. Not in the bottom of a chimney. Makes pipe connection and disconnect a breeze. But since parts are on the way...
  3. Ashful

    Ashful Minister of Fire

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    I guess I should've asked before ordering! However, I think my plan will work out okay. I'm putting an appliance adaptor on the bottom of the flex liner (perhaps cutting off the 2" of crimped area on the liner), and attaching a single-wall telescoping pipe to that with screws. To clean, simply undo telescoping pipe at stove collar, slide up, and send the sooteater up there to do the dirty work.

    One question I do have, though... this old F12 has no screw holes or anything in the stove collar, to keep the stovepipe attached. My newer F12 has Jotul's typical (but senseless to many) setup of two tapped holes with bolts in them (M6'ish), for which you must drill the stovepipe, so you can run the bolts in to hold it all together. I'm thinking the best plan here may be to drill a couple of holes thru the stove collar big enough for a couple of stainless self-tappers, to run into the stovepipe. Opinions?
  4. clemsonfor

    clemsonfor Minister of Fire

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    yes i would drill the stove color to accept your screws
  5. ddahlgren

    ddahlgren Feeling the Heat

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    Doesn't sloppy and fire somehow not really work well together?
  6. Ashful

    Ashful Minister of Fire

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    Had an issue tonight with the entire liner moving, when I tried to pull the telescoping pipe down onto the new Ashford. The telescoping stovepipe had been cleaned, and left full up (collapsed) by the sweep, while I swapped out stoves. The telescoping stovepipe segments will not slide, they've been pushed too far together by the sweep.

    So, I decided to pull the block off plate, so I could get at the appliance adaptor, to disconnect the telescoping pipe, and take it outside to get it back apart. So, I pull the plate down, the stainless plate with collar shown earlier in this thread, and find a ring of creosote about 1/2" deep on top of the plate. This being a 6" stainless liner with insulation stuffed into an 8" clay tile flue, I'm wondering where this creosote is coming from. The 8" flue was supposedly cleaned before liner install... or so I thought.

    Ideas? Should I be concerned, or vacuum and carry on?
  7. clemsonfor

    clemsonfor Minister of Fire

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    Coming from your larger chimney I assume.
  8. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Yeah. You never get all of the stuff out of the chimney on a cleaning. Stuff in the mortar joints etc. With heat and time it flakes off.
  9. clemsonfor

    clemsonfor Minister of Fire

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    For it to ignite you already will have a chimney fire at that point on the inside I would think. Smoke in the house bit unless its all cracked up I would thinking be fine
  10. tarzan

    tarzan Minister of Fire

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    I have had to many simular experiences with so called professionals. I do most of my own work with "lots" of help from the Internet. Usually a quick search reveales that I was wrong about what I thought I knew but it's usually less of a headache to do my own work with added peace of mind knowing what's been done plus I've gathered a few cool tools that a may use again, someday.:)
    clemsonfor likes this.
  11. Ashful

    Ashful Minister of Fire

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    Yeah, just surprised that any of it could get down to the block-off plate, given the blanket wrap on a 6" liner pretty well fills the 8" ID clay tile, let alone the amount that was found.
  12. Ashful

    Ashful Minister of Fire

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    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1432180958.772178.jpg
  13. clemsonfor

    clemsonfor Minister of Fire

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    Aren't your chimneys like 30ft? I dont think thats much creosote for that length. Plus as those things heat and cool the contract and move and the stuff could of just worked loose over time.
  14. Ashful

    Ashful Minister of Fire

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    This one is short... like 10 feet of lined clay tile chimney. Also, since the blanket-wrapped stainless liner completey fills the clay tile liner, I'm having trouble figuring out how stuff would work down to block off plate, even if there were some small amount of stuff left after cleaning and install.
  15. clemsonfor

    clemsonfor Minister of Fire

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    Well that changes what I said. Maybe it was just poorly cleaned. Since its so short maybe just pull it and clean it and reinstall?
  16. bholler

    bholler Minister of Fire

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    That is if you have the proper clearances to combustibles on the old clay chimney. If not things can get pretty bad pretty quick. Also creosote turns liquid and the last time i went out to a fire that was between old and new liner they had had burning liquid creosote running out the bottom. Like bb said you will never get every last bit out but that looks like allot i would question if it was cleaned at all.


    You can get it all if you break out the old liners lol. Actually many times i have to clean the bare brick or block chase after removing the liners because there is creosote there that has leaked through through the years
  17. Ashful

    Ashful Minister of Fire

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    Old clay liner was 19 years old, and in perfect working order.
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  18. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    bholler has never seen clay he didn't want to break. ;lol
  19. bholler

    bholler Minister of Fire

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    I was just giving bart a hard time If the liner fit down with insulation I would not have broken them out. I don't do it just for fun lol
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  20. Ashful

    Ashful Minister of Fire

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    Well, more interesting stuff tonight. Started wiggling more on the telescoping pipe, me holding the upper, wife pulling on the lower. Still can't get it to budge, but a small bucket load of golf-ball sized creosote rained down on us. So, I started probing some more, and I'll try to describe what I'm seeing.

    First, I ordered an "insulated smooth-wall flex liner", and did was here on install day. I saw them take a coil of smooth wall flex liner, unroll it in the driveway, then wrap it in a blanket, foil, tape... and I think there was a wire wrap or sock over that. The intallers had cut the liner very short, perfectly flush with bottom of old clay tile chimney, and crimped the end of the liner to slide inside a stovepipe, with no retaining screws. When I discovered that during my first cleaning, I installed an appliance adaptor (described in preceding pages of this thread) and the telescoping stovepipe.

    Well, when I look up now, I see a white insulation on the outside, and my appliance adaptor, with gobs of puffy creosote between the insulation and appliance adaptor. I knocked that all out, and if I stick my hand up farther between the insulation and liner, I feel and see more creosote. Also, I feel a collar covered in foil, about 1" larger than the liner, which may be the sock I remember from the install, but it seems to be rigid... almost as if my 6" flex pipe is inside another rigid pipe. Just can't figure that out (can't see, can only feel, since it's up inside the clay tile liner), and can't figure out why there's so much creosote between the flex liner and insulation. I think it can't have come from the old clay liner, if it's INSIDE the blanket, and there's just way too much to be remnants from a poorly cleaned chimney.

    I think it's time to pull the liner, and figure out what's going on. The only question is, do it myself (no second set of hands to help me), bring back the guy who did this install, or take a chance on trying another chimney sweep.
  21. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    I'd suggest posting some pics of what you are seeing. Sounds like an effing mess, but just to be sure, pics are worth a thousand words if done well.

    I hope you do that before pulling the liner, especially this time of the year.

    pen
  22. bholler

    bholler Minister of Fire

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    Yeah i am not following the description very well. But if there is that much creosote the liner needs pulled chimney cleaned liner inspected and then reinstalled with an extension. When you say smooth wall flex are you talking about that double layer stuff or heavy wall? Either way is it installed right side up?
  23. Ashful

    Ashful Minister of Fire

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    Hi bholler, I think the product used was Duravent SW.

    I'll try to get some pic's, pen. Might be tough to really get a good shot, as what I'm describing is more from sticking my hand up in there than line of sight.
  24. pen

    pen There are some who call me...mod. Staff Member

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    Throw a poo-ton up if need be, as you know, they really help.
  25. bholler

    bholler Minister of Fire

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    Oh ok that stuff for one is very easy to damage installing and if it is upside down it can cause real problems. If you are going to pull it be very careful not to kink it

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