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Got my new toy and now dissapointed!

Post in 'The Gear' started by iceman, Sep 8, 2009.

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  1. kevin j

    kevin j Minister of Fire

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    I have used a lot of splitters , doing mostly stringy smaller trees, like elm that has to be fought to the very end of the stroke. By far my biggest frustration has always been cycle time. Maybe 1% of the time is it too short on force. And then I just carve off the sides if the cycle time is quick. Or toss it into the pile to quarter with the saw, or toss it into the woods and move on to other rounds. I want to spend time picking the easy fruit.
    If it pops in 4 inches of stroke, or runs it fully through on fast mode and doesn't unload, I can see the cycle is not so important.
    but for me, speed is the issue. an extra 5 seconds per stroke times hundreds of strokes is significant.
    but still way better than a maul.

    kcj

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  2. m0jumb0

    m0jumb0 New Member

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    I noticed some rattles on my 22 ton huskee, but nothing that I would call out of the ordinary. I always wear hearing protection when using any of my power equipment, so most things go unnoticed. That can be good or bad I guess.
  3. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    For what it's worth department, my understanding is that a "Loncin" engine is one of the many "China Clone" copies of the Honda engines, down to being pretty much parts interchangeable... Maybe they cheaped out on the muffler and / or air filter setup... Another thing to look at is the position of the muffler diverter - on many of the OPE engines I've seen, the muffler will have a little round diverter plate on the outlet, that screws on with a couple of sheet metal screws, and directs the exhaust output. It has a bunch of holes in it that allow it to be pointed in different directions - on my HF splitter it came pointed where it would be puffing right at me when running vertically. I rotated it to point the other way, and greatly reduced the percieved noise level, and improved the local air quality... My Subaru/Robin engine (another Honda clone) is now almost quiet enough not to need ear protection.

    Gooserider
  4. iceman

    iceman Minister of Fire

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    i looked at the muffler and it doesnt look like what you explained.. however, it does look like there are 2 holes and i could add a deflector to the outside of it..?? its funny because yes when in vertical you are standing in front of the exhaust!
    the guy hasnt called back from the store so i am just about ready to take it back regardless..... i cant find this splitter anywhere on the spee co site, no other tsc stor seems to have them in this area except the one store i got from..... and the manager is so "busy" he cant seem to help me resolve this..... i heard such great things about spee co/huskee and as fate would have it, i get the bad apple.... well seems like the troy bilt is sounding perty good right now
  5. burntime

    burntime New Member

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    C'mon hunting season!
    I have a 31 quart resivior...I think the new ones are 17...
  6. iceman

    iceman Minister of Fire

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    whatever the 28 ton has that is what mine has when they were side by side mine was bigger than the 22 but the same size as the 28
    but what do i know anyways i cant even prove my splitter exists cant find another one anywhere!
  7. crazy_dan

    crazy_dan New Member

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    It was made with the parts left over on a Friday when they needed 1 more to meet production.
    that or they hired Dr. Frankenstein.
  8. iceman

    iceman Minister of Fire

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    well i spoke to the manager who said he would take 100 off of the 28 ton so 1399+tax
    i can get the troybilt for 1196 +tax so it might be cheaper to try and fix this one...
    the manager did say he didnt get a chance to check the other one because it sold ....
    sooooooooooo......... do i pay 200 more for a troybilt or stay with a speeco?
  9. burntime

    burntime New Member

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    C'mon hunting season!
    Speeco hands down...
  10. iceman

    iceman Minister of Fire

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    whats the diff between speeco and huskee? i know spee co makes huskee but do they use cheaper parts in huskee?
  11. burntime

    burntime New Member

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    C'mon hunting season!
    Huskee is made by speeco. Same basic thing with a different name.
  12. iceman

    iceman Minister of Fire

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    here are the pics of the speeco..... my guess is its 4 1/2 inch cyclinder it has 1/2 and 3/4 inch lines on it

    Attached Files:

  13. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa Minister of Fire

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    Odd that they put the filter on the intake rather than return line.
  14. iceman

    iceman Minister of Fire

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    is this the first one you have seen?
    is it something abnormal? could it be wrong?
  15. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    Sounds to me like the unit you have is better for the price than the alternatives... Obviously it's hard to tell how bad things are when we can't see it for ourselves, but it doesn't sound like a big problem. As others have suggested it sounds like it's worth checking the alignment of the lovejoy connector between the pump and motor, including making sure that they actually installed the rubber "spider" peice properly, etc. I wouldn't worry all that much about the hitch and chains vibrating as long as it isn't bad back at the middle of the unit.

    On the muffler, it does sound like your deflector might be missing, I would try to get one and isnstall it - maybe talk to the TSC guy about swapping the muffler for one off a Honda engine, or otherwise making it a bit quieter.

    The suggestion for isolation mounting the engine is also a good one, but it might be worth a bit of experimenting first - get some strips of rubber like tire sidwalls, or a rubber "welcome mat", undo the engine mounting bolts and put the strips between the engine and chassis, then tighten things back down - if that helps, then it might be worth doing the isolation mounts.

    It doesn't sound like what you have is a real big problem, sounds to me like you would be better off trying to fix the unit you have rather than trading it in on something more expensive and arguably not as good.

    Gooserider
  16. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    I would see the suction side filter as a MAJOR design flaw - my earlier comment was made before seeing those photos... Otherwise it still looks like a good unit, but a suction side filter is IMHO a great way to destroy a pump by causing it to cavitate, not to mention that putting the filter below the oil level like that is likely to make if very messy and difficult to change the filter without dumping your hydraulic fluid... Incidentally, cavitation can cause a lot of vibration as it eats the pump internals...

    I don't know who came up with that design but it is really screwy, as Speeco / Huskee generally knows what they are doing and uses sound design concepts.

    Note, this is something that CAN be fixed for a not unreasonable sum of money... It would need a replacement suction line (or possibly a length of pipe and some fittings) possibly a filter and head (depending on whether the existing one can be re-used as a return side filter) and a new, shorter, return line - if one got the parts from a local hydraulic shop, $100-150, maybe $75-100 on-line...

    I really can't think of ANY circumstance where I'd want to see a filter of any sort between the tank and the pump. Most common filter location is in the return line to the tank, which is low pressure, and quite an effective location on any sort of equipment. There are some sorts of equipment (not log splitters) that require ultra clean fluid going into some of the valves and such, and for that equipment a pressure side filter in the high pressure line can be effective, though such filters tend to be VERY expensive because of the need to operate under full system pressure.

    The other thing that I have recently changed my opinion on, is that you are best off with a manufactured, swaged end, return line (albeit a low pressure rating (~200psi minimum) is all that's needed) rather than a length of plain hose between hose barbs and held on w/ hose clamps... I can't tell from the pictures which you have on that unit...

    Gooserider
  17. RowCropRenegade

    RowCropRenegade Feeling the Heat

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    I'll 2nd what gooserider said about the oil filter being on the suction side.

    It's not critical but it's generally on the return side due to lower pressure return.

    Filters and their mounts are notorious for leaking when they get old. Putting them on the high pressure side just exacerbates it.

    My sprayer has two filters, one on supply, one on return. I've had nothing but trouble on the supply side with leaks. You have to have it though. Pushing 10,000 psi to wheel motors requires super clean oil.
  18. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    Oh and looking at the photos, you are definitely missing the diverter off the muffler - the muffler on my Subaru-Robin engine, and the Honda engines I've seen looks IDENTICAL, except for having the diverter that goes over the outlet, and makes the exhaust gasses do a 90* bend... If you search way back to the threads I wrote up on my splitter you can probably find a picture of it. I'm willing to bet that putting that part on would cut your noise considerably, both by adding another bend to the exhaust path, and by shooting the exhaust gasses and noise off in a less annoying direction.

    Gooserider
  19. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa Minister of Fire

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    The return line has regular barbs and gear clamps but I don't see that as being bad. It doesn't look like it would take much to move the filter to the return line but ja, removing it will drain some of the oil. One could block the wheels higher and tip the reservoir so the the filter is higher to minimize the amount lost.

    I'd be worried about cavitation in sub-zero weather when the oil is thicker. I've yet to run my splitter in the Winter.
  20. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    I don't like the hose barbs and clamps - unless perhaps they are seriously glued in place with permatex along with the clamps... I recently had a line blow off, and besides making a major mess (and we don't want to think about the environment..) it dumped 2/3 of my oil in the time it took me to get to the engine kill switch, and I was NOT moving slowly... Figuring the average splitter holds about 5 gallons of fluid, a 16 gpm pump is going to have your system dumped and be running the pump dry in 20 seconds or less... I replaced that line w/ a manufactured one before I pulled the starter cord again.....

    In terms of cavitation - I suspect it would be a problem even in hot weather. A hydraulic pump should ideally have a net positive suction head. Zero or as close to it as can be managed is tolerable, but not great. This is why the designers generally work very hard to get the pump below the tank's oil line, and use a big, and short, hose to feed the pump - by putting the filter on the suction line, you have greatly increased the "effective length" of the suction line - I woud be willing to bet the "equivalent pipe length" on that filter head would be on the order of 50 FEET or so, with any dirt in the filter making it even worse. The height difference between the tank and the pump looks to be 3-4" or about 1/8" of a pound NPSH - Assuming a 1" diameter intake line, according to the numbers I've found over on the Engineering tool box, SAE 10 oil has a 45psi pressure drop / 100 feet of schedule 40 steel pipe at 10gpm or 67psi at 15gpm - divide that in half, and you are still pulling a pretty hard vacuum between the filter and the pump inlet... Note how the photos looks like they are using a pretty substantially reinforced suction line....

    Gooserider
  21. iceman

    iceman Minister of Fire

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    wow .... that tech talk has my head spinning.....
    ok i called speeco and got a manual emailed to me...
    i also spoke with a tech who is now going to talk to an engineer about what it is doing (vibrating) when the ram is retracted
    i asked why the filter is on the supply side and he said its been that way for 20 years, its just the way they designed it..
    i asked about the muffler and he told me that i could try to find a divertor but that unit was designed for the operator to be on the other side ....to keep the operator away from the engine
    He also told me me the hyd tank is as big as the 28/35 ton there engines are a bit bigger with a bit bigger pumps ....
    this unit is just making it over here, they have been selling them in other parts of the country with great success
    he did say to wait to take it back until he called it may be something they can fix, but the unit is solid and they will stand behind it
    he did say that they had the speeco engine made by loncin to save money and to reflect that in the price.... he says its a cross between a briggs and honda i.e. it has the low oil shutoff protector, it is a horizontal engine (for what its worth)
  22. iceman

    iceman Minister of Fire

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    ######update#######
    talked to speeco and we discovered its the engine.... when the engine is full throttle it is when it starts the uncontrollable vibrating...
    the tech said it was because the engine has so much TORQUE! he claims it has more torque than the honda on the 28 ton! ....... he also stated that the unit was built to disperse all that vibration through the beam?? i asked about putting some type of rubber stops or something and he claimed when building the splitters they tried but the vibrations with friction would eat up any type of rubber thus causing damage to the unit itself... with things possibly falling out of alignement?!!!......
    The person I spoke to was very kind, but i am starting question some of those answers... but i dunno if the answers make sense... according to him if the engine didnt have so much torque it would not vibrate as much .... and thats the reason that the 22 and 28 dont get AS much vibration ..... when the splitter is only running 3/4 or 1/2 there is little to no vibration ..... any thoughts???
    I also called another store to see if they had a 25 ton and the guy said no... why do you want that one the engine on it isnt as good as the one on the 22 ton!
  23. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    anyway you can do a video of it running? and post it.
  24. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    That explanation sounds a bit hokey to me, but I'm not an engineer... However vibration is not directly caused by torque, though it can contribute.

    You certainly don't want any kind of rubber mounts between the engine and the pump, as those two parts need to be held in close alignment - but the pump mounting bracket does that. OTOH, there isn't any critical alignment issues between the motor / pump assembly and the rest of the unit, as that is all rubber hoses - thus I don't see any legitimate reason why it wouldn't be possible to rubber mount, or otherwise vibration isolate the engine.

    If I were wanting to experiment, I'd probably get a hole saw and a tire then make some nice rubber donuts to put in between the engine and the chassis, substituting longer engine mount bolts as needed, possibly using additional rubber donuts and large washers above and below as needed... This has the advantage of being low cost, and reversible - if I liked the results I might be tempted to really void the warranty and get some of the manufactured rubber mounts to put in instead, but I'd want to be sure it did what I wanted before making any irreversible changes.

    Gooserider
  25. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    hocky puck would hold up if its not to thick
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