Got trailer... need winch
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Easy Livin’ 3000
Minister of Fire
Cool setup. Thanks for the follow up.
Would you mind a few close-ups of the winch and the mounting that you decided on, please.
I must have missed the discussion on the tongs. That looks good, too.
Those are smaller logs than you're used to dealing with, no?
Which winch did you end up with?
Also, I've dragged lots of wood (and vehicles) with the synthetic winch cable (ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene--Dyneema, Spectra, or Amsteel), also with steel winch cables. The synthetic lines work great, are easier on the hands than steel and wear very well, in my experience. They're also getting to be cheap. The thing I like best about them is that they have very little stretch, so they don't store as much energy if they (or another component of the pulling system) breaks. Knots are very difficult to untie, so I try to only tie timber hitches.
Yes. Those tongs are the best investment I’ve made in my wood harvesting operation in several years. They really reduce the fatigue, after years of trying to get chokers under and around logs for skidding. I highly recommend them.
I really appreciated not having to separate these logs, just hook the tongs and go!
Note the nice mess of highly-sprung saplings in the wake of this fallen oak.
Yes, definitely smaller than what I get from the place where I do most of my cutting. No complaints, there though!
Winch is the recently discontinued Superwinch S7500 trailer winch. I’ll probably order the gears to down-convert it to an S5500, but the deal I got on the S7500 was just too good to pass up.
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Easy Livin’ 3000
Minister of Fire
I'm must not speak winch-ese, because I have no idea what a hearing to down-conver means, but, that's a cool setup.
Probably the most efficient way to collect wood fuel that I can imagine. Only thing else would be a grapple, but that would be impractical.
And, the batteries are charged by the alternator on the truck. That's really something.
Hah... I was on my second Manhattan when I typed that, and let the spell checker get the better of me. I want to order gearing to down-convert it from 7500# to 5500#, with increased speed. I paid $240 for that winch, which is normally $700-something, because they had just discontinued that product series, and they had already sold out on the less expensive 5500# model.
The charging system took a bit to wire up. I have a 10-amp charger (12V to 14.4V DC-DC converter with 10-amp limit and low vehicle battery drop-out) that’s powered off the truck, as well as a solar battery tender that I plug in when it’s parked. I’d advise anyone agains simply connecting these batteries directly to the truck, as it won’t charge all that well, and many bad things can happen.
Based on this one test, yes... it appears to be every bit as efficient as I had hoped it would be. The added weight of winch, stand, and batteries is driving up the tongue weight on the truck, though. If I could do it all over again, I’d go with a 120V winch, and just put my generator in the bed of the truck. No expensive deep-cycle batteries to replace every 5-7 years, lower tongue weight, no overheating 12V winches during long pulling sessions.
I haven’t had any issue with this winch overheating yet, but I’ve read enough to know it happens to folks.
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The answer to all of those questions depends a lot on the log, but I made some observations and learned a few nice tricks, just in my first few hours of pulling with them. Here's a few of those, in no particular order:
- Setting the tongs is the main trick, when working alone. If I had my buddy on the tractor, and me setting the tongs, I'd just hold them on the log whil he pulls away with the tractor. It would be a breeze.
- If working alone, the easiest way to set the tongs is to lay them flat on the ground, slide one prong under the log until it stops (pinched between log and ground), then lift the other prong which will lever up on the one under the log (setting it), and then drop the top prong high on the log. I might not be describing this well, but you'll figure it out, and it's quite easy.
- The prongs set real easy in punky wood, but they can also tear out more easily in punky wood. Conversely, setting them is a trick on hard oak without bark, but once set they hold very well.
- Removing the tongs is very easy. I usually just grab one leg, and lever up. If they're set especially deep, then one quick kick with the heel of your boot will always release them. No issue.
- If you reverse the tractor, you'll usually release the tongs. This is not a problem, and in fact is quite handy. If you don't want them to release, just keep upward pressure on them.
In hauling maybe 20 - 30 logs, I only had them pop off once or twice, and that was early in the day while I was still getting a feel for using them. Getting them set was harder on the first ten logs, but once you get the hang of it, it's really not much of an issue.
Now a question for you folks: I need some sort of spike or hook that I can put on the far end of a log, when I'm getting it all the way up to the front wall of the trailer. On smaller logs, I find I can reposition the tongs from the front end of the log to the back end, once it gets too close to the front wall of the trailer for the winch to pull any father. This does no work on larger logs, where the angles don't work for the tongs to reach over the back of the log. I made due with putting the winch to the toggle on my cant hook, and hooking that into the trailing end of those logs, but that's not idea.
- Setting the tongs is the main trick, when working alone. If I had my buddy on the tractor, and me setting the tongs, I'd just hold them on the log whil he pulls away with the tractor. It would be a breeze.
- If working alone, the easiest way to set the tongs is to lay them flat on the ground, slide one prong under the log until it stops (pinched between log and ground), then lift the other prong which will lever up on the one under the log (setting it), and then drop the top prong high on the log. I might not be describing this well, but you'll figure it out, and it's quite easy.
- The prongs set real easy in punky wood, but they can also tear out more easily in punky wood. Conversely, setting them is a trick on hard oak without bark, but once set they hold very well.
- Removing the tongs is very easy. I usually just grab one leg, and lever up. If they're set especially deep, then one quick kick with the heel of your boot will always release them. No issue.
- If you reverse the tractor, you'll usually release the tongs. This is not a problem, and in fact is quite handy. If you don't want them to release, just keep upward pressure on them.
In hauling maybe 20 - 30 logs, I only had them pop off once or twice, and that was early in the day while I was still getting a feel for using them. Getting them set was harder on the first ten logs, but once you get the hang of it, it's really not much of an issue.
Now a question for you folks: I need some sort of spike or hook that I can put on the far end of a log, when I'm getting it all the way up to the front wall of the trailer. On smaller logs, I find I can reposition the tongs from the front end of the log to the back end, once it gets too close to the front wall of the trailer for the winch to pull any father. This does no work on larger logs, where the angles don't work for the tongs to reach over the back of the log. I made due with putting the winch to the toggle on my cant hook, and hooking that into the trailing end of those logs, but that's not idea.
This "log dog" looks ideal, unfortunately this one sold long ago on ebay.
I might just have to make one, myself.
I might just have to make one, myself.
I just made one a couple months ago similar to that log dog. No handle though, just a clevis to throw a chain on. I made it to stand up very large rounds (using a garden tractor for the pull). Works well for that and I think something similar would work for what you want to do.
Edit for clarity: Standing up the rounds on edge if they fall flat to the ground. This is for noodling purposes. I also find it handy to roll logs if I need to reposition for the saw.
Edit for clarity: Standing up the rounds on edge if they fall flat to the ground. This is for noodling purposes. I also find it handy to roll logs if I need to reposition for the saw.
Here is another one....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Unique-Sno...499061?hash=item1a2b1d6f75:g:o2sAAOSw-3FZB-gA
black smoke signals
Feeling the Heat
We think alike, I picked one up last night. Of course, I forgot to bring it with me today, but I made due with one of my choker chains, like this:
I even double-stacked a few:
The big breakthrough was unloading with the tongs on the loader, which enabled me to quickly stack a few cords of logs.
If it’s not too cold tomorrow, I’ll go out for another trailer load. I’ll be cutting at a friends place, which always beats working alone.
Pulled another two cords out of the woods last night, this time at my usual place. Consisted of 37.5 feet of 24”ish standing dead white oak, 15 feet of 12”ish maple, and 15 feet of 12”ish ash. I’m cutting everything in 15’ or 7.5’ lengths now, as that’s the common denominator of my stove split length (18”) and my trailer bed length. Actually, had to leave some more behind in the staging area, as my trailer was maxed out.
Depending on access to the location and distance to my house, I’m finding I can fell, Buck, skid, load, haul, and unload about two cords per 3 hours with this new system. Between this and my newly hot-rodded splitter, I see my wood use ticking back up to my previous levels.
Depending on access to the location and distance to my house, I’m finding I can fell, Buck, skid, load, haul, and unload about two cords per 3 hours with this new system. Between this and my newly hot-rodded splitter, I see my wood use ticking back up to my previous levels.
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
My fundamental question is why? No offense, I am sure you have a logical reason, I just haven't deduced it.
When I buy stumpage in the public forest, if I get too far ahead on bucking or too far behind on hauling it is a sure bet someone will come along and load their truck with the rounds I bucked.
What is the payoff for bringing these monsters home in one piece?
When I buy stumpage in the public forest, if I get too far ahead on bucking or too far behind on hauling it is a sure bet someone will come along and load their truck with the rounds I bucked.
What is the payoff for bringing these monsters home in one piece?
maple1
Minister of Fire
I'm guessing it's to get as much cubic footage home as quick as possible. Then it will be close and secure to work at and process as time permits.
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
OK, this is a significant achievement. You are getting, average, one cord of logs into the processing area on your own property in about 90 minutes. From there you can finish bucking, then split then stack at you leisure when you have whatever for free time.
This does save dragging your splitter to the forest and back.
There are three main reasons:
1. Time is precious. I used to spend three to five very long (eg. 12 hour) days to bring home 6 - 10 cords each year, by the time I felled, bucked into logs, skidded to a staging area, re-bucked into rounds, hand-rolled those rounds into my trailer, drove home, and hand-rolled those rounds back off the trailer. Now, I'm bringing home and unloading the same amount of wood in one 12-hour day (or in this case, three very short outings of just a couple hours each). Yes, I still need to split it, but that's more easily-scheduled time on my own at home. Scheduling outings with my cutting buddy, at his place with his tractor for skidding, is much more challenging.
2. My cutting buddy is getting older, and rolling rounds in and out of the trailer is very hard on both of us. When I cut at his place, I'm bringing home a lot of oak, with diameter 24" - 40". When I was cutting for the Jotuls, I had those green weights figured at 350 - 1000 lb. per round, and it was really just killing me on the day or two I'd haul all that wood home each spring, not to mention how I'd worry about him trying to help me with them. The BK rounds are lighter, since they're a little shorter, but they're still too heavy!
3. Now I can go cutting on my own! One of my obstacles was always having someone handy to help me roll heavy (esp. the ones > 500 lb.) rounds into the trailer. This is the first time in a long time I've gone out on my own, and hauled home wood. That's where the first five cords came from, on Tuesday and Thursday.
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
So partly this local market stuff.
I can buy stumpage in public forests for $10/ cord, but if I leave rounds out there long enough they grow legs. I can have logs delivered for ~$150/ cord, and I can have green rounds delivered, and I can get green splits delivered for about $200/ cord.
I am not sure what you are paying for heating oil, but I imagine if you could get an honest cord of green oak rounds delivered for say $150 or $175 you would probably jump at the chance?
In that instance this all makes sense. Once you have the pieces home where your dogs can keep an eye on them, the pieces won't grow legs. What you have done is maximize the amount of wood you can get home in one day. Now I get it, and nice job I think too.
If the cutting area could be secured I would be sorely, sorely tempted to drag my splitter out there, process on site and toss green splits into the bucket on the loader and use the loader to dump them into the trailer...
Anyway, it makes sense now. Nice job. If I could bring a cord of spruce home with 90 minutes of work plus driving the truck around some I probably would do that too.
I can buy stumpage in public forests for $10/ cord, but if I leave rounds out there long enough they grow legs. I can have logs delivered for ~$150/ cord, and I can have green rounds delivered, and I can get green splits delivered for about $200/ cord.
I am not sure what you are paying for heating oil, but I imagine if you could get an honest cord of green oak rounds delivered for say $150 or $175 you would probably jump at the chance?
In that instance this all makes sense. Once you have the pieces home where your dogs can keep an eye on them, the pieces won't grow legs. What you have done is maximize the amount of wood you can get home in one day. Now I get it, and nice job I think too.
If the cutting area could be secured I would be sorely, sorely tempted to drag my splitter out there, process on site and toss green splits into the bucket on the loader and use the loader to dump them into the trailer...
Anyway, it makes sense now. Nice job. If I could bring a cord of spruce home with 90 minutes of work plus driving the truck around some I probably would do that too.
