Harman Oakwood -- What am I doing wrong? (not a secondary burn problem)

[sshtac]

Hello all,

I'm a new member.. I just recently found this excellent resource. I wish I saw it before I purchased my stove.

I'm having a really hard time heating my house with my Harman Oakwood. I bought a new Harman Oakwood in September '11. This is my first season with the stove.

My house is an 1820's farmhouse -- stripped down to studs and renovated in 1996. It is about 2200 sq ft on 3 floors. The main floor is an open floor plan with living/family room one on side and kitchen on the other. The dining room is in it's own room with two open entrances (no doors). The stairs to go up is open all the way to the 3rd floor which is a bit like a loft. So, theoretically, it should be pretty easy to heat the house.

When the house was renovated in 1996, the fireplace and internal chimney was removed. We recently (early 2010) built a new fireplace and chimney; all masonry, about 30 feet tall on the side of the house in the family room. It has an excellent draft.

The Oakwood is installed sitting on our hearth about 1/4 of the way into the fireplace -- the majority of the stove is out of the fireplace, but the secondary burn chamber is inside the fireplace. Btw, a chimney liner was also installed with the stove.

I can get the secondary burn running no problem (zero smoke from chimney).

My problem is I get very little heat from the stove. Is this normal? I thought I'd be able to heat my entire house. I've put a fan on the floor in front of the stove blowing air underneath the stove and into the fireplace, which cause the hot air from behind the stove to blast out from the top. This and a second standing floor fan to move that hot air into the rest of the house has pretty much done the trick. But w/o this the room takes a long time to get warm -- forget about the rest of the house.

Also, I find I can get about 8 hour burn time by turning the air down to about 3-4 -- but when I come downstairs in the morning, I'm having a hard time breaking 62' in the room.

I talk to friends (Dutchwest w/ Cat, Lopi insert) and they're able to have 75' mornings. I dont need 75', but 68' would be nice! Another friend of mine has a Quadrofire and man, you can't even stand in front of his, it's throwing so much heat.

What am I doing wrong?

I'm burning red oak seasoned about 11 months.

Thank you.

 

[MrWhoopee]

I have a friend who installed a Harman (not sure which model) in a new manufactured home. He was so displeased with the heat output that, after 2 years, he bought a Jotul and put the Harman in his shop. It won't heat that either.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

I think with a house this large and a box that's 2.3 that you may have to run hot and load more often!

 

[begreen]

Resplit the wood and see if it is really dry with a moisture meter or by placing the freshly split surface against your face.

How tall is the ceiling in the family room?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I'm having a really hard time heating my house with my Harman Oakwood. I bought a new Harman Oakwood in September '11. This is my first season with the stove.

My house is an 1820's farmhouse -- stripped down to studs and renovated in 1996. It is about 2200 sq ft on 3 floors. The main floor is an open floor plan with living/family room one on side and kitchen on the other. The dining room is in it's own room with two open entrances (no doors). The stairs to go up is open all the way to the 3rd floor which is a bit like a loft. So, theoretically, it should be pretty easy to heat the house.

The Oakwood is installed sitting on our hearth about 1/4 of the way into the fireplace -- the majority of the stove is out of the fireplace, but the secondary burn chamber is inside the fireplace. Btw, a chimney liner was also installed with the stove.

I can get the secondary burn running no problem (zero smoke from chimney).

My problem is I get very little heat from the stove. Is this normal? I thought I'd be able to heat my entire house. I've put a fan on the floor in front of the stove blowing air underneath the stove and into the fireplace, which cause the hot air from behind the stove to blast out from the top. This and a second standing floor fan to move that hot air into the rest of the house has pretty much done the trick. But w/o this the room takes a long time to get warm -- forget about the rest of the house.

Also, I find I can get about 8 hour burn time by turning the air down to about 3-4 -- but when I come downstairs in the morning, I'm having a hard time breaking 62' in the room.

I talk to friends (Dutchwest w/ Cat, Lopi insert) and they're able to have 75' mornings. I dont need 75', but 68' would be nice! Another friend of mine has a Quadrofire and man, you can't even stand in front of his, it's throwing so much heat.

What am I doing wrong?

I'm burning red oak seasoned about 11 months.

Thank you.

Welcome to the forum sshtac.

I'll comment on 2 things. First is that red oak seasoned for 11 months. Around our house we will not attempt to burn red oak until it has dried for 3 years. Some get by with 2 years but less than that is pretty tough. Oak is indeed great wood but it is one of the hardest woods to give up its moisture. That is why it needs time and time starts after it has been split and then stacked....outdoors....in the wind. If you cover the wood, make sure to cover only the top of the wood pile.

Second is the use of the fans. One seems good but the other you state is a standing floor fan to move the hot air to the rest of the house. This may sound backwards to you as it did to me at first but when you analyze it, it makes sense. Do not try to blow the hot air into the cool air! Also, use a small desktop fan to move the air and use it on the low setting. But here is the big thing: move the cool air and not the warm. That is set a small fan in a doorway or hallway and blow, on low speed the cool air into the stove room. The cool air, being denser will then force the warm air out of the stove room and into the other area you want heated. But trying to blow the hot air towards that cooler denser air it comes to a roadblock. Give it a try and as stated, use a small desktop fan on low speed. Then try to get yourself some better wood for this year and next.

Okay, one more thing. I always recommend folks have 2-3 years worth of wood on hand at all times because that wood needs time to dry right. If you buy your wood, take it with a grain of salt that the seller says it is seasoned. That is a meaningless term. Even if they say it is ready to burn, they will tell you that even if the wood is freshly cut. Sorry, but that is poor fuel and you'll get poor results from it.

 

[Todd]

I've heard that these stoves give most of their heat out the back of the stove because that is where the afterburner is. I bet your fireplace and chimney are robbing most of your heat. Do you have a block off plate installed where the old damper was? Maybe you can slide the stove out more or install some kind of reflective heat shield for the back of the stove to push that heat outwards.

 

[Pallet Pete]

I can say that the harman stoves will burn the hair off your head from a distance!! The trick is to use the most dry wood you can find it will get super hot and you will be running it on the lowest settings while trying not to die of sweat. I have the TL300 and have had numerous issues with it here is what to check with your stove as it is the same aside from a different housing. First check that the damper is closing all the way there is a adjustment screw on it that allows you to move the damper from loose to tight. Second make sure that the top load door has a tight gasket if not it really messes up the afterburner. Third check the doors and be sure that they are sealed properly. The biggest thing was for us to adjust the flu to the proper height forget the manual and play with it on your own. our height wound u being 17' we tried 16' and filled the house with smoke we tried 18' and got a super draft that was way to strong. These types of stoves are great once you figure out the setup but if you don't get it right they are ridiculously temperamental. One thing I have noticed if you do put wet wood in your afterburner may go out causing the box to fill with smoke and smother. Lastly we discovered our 1800's home though uninsulated does not provide enough air and we ended up installing an Outside Air Kit. Most important of all is good 2 year dry wood with this stove or it won't work right. Once you figure it out they are a good heater and will cook ya out of the house.

Good Luck
Pete

 

[Pallet Pete]

One other thing most of my heat comes through the heat shield up and out the back as well as through the glass!
Pete

 

[Hogwildz]

My money is he does not have a block off plate and that heat is going up and transferring out the masonry.

 

[sshtac]

Wow guys.. thanks for all the replies!

MrWhoopee: That's what I'm afraid of!

PLAYS WITH FIRE: I don't see why... Harman's website says this stove is rated for 3600 sqft. Ok, so even if that's inflated by 1000 sqft I'm still in the clear.

BeGreen: The ceiling on the main floor is 8 feet tall. I dont have a moisture meter but I'll try to pick one up this weekend. Sounds like it'd be good to have. I can't seem to find my axe so I cant split a piece now...

But since you and Backwoods Savage mentioned the wood, let me tell you more about it. I bought the oak cut but unsplit, and split it myself last summer. I used a hydraulic splitter and the oak would just fall apart. There is other wood mixed in, but most of it is red oak. So it sat unsplit for probably 6 months or so, and split for 6 months or so -- give or take.

Backwoods Savage: Wow, really? So maybe the oak is still not dry enough? I store it stacked outside, covered only by sheets of plywood on top. Thanks for the tip for the fan! I will definitely try that tonight.

Todd: There is no block off plate -- There is a ton of insulation stuffed up there that the guys did when they installed the liner. Can I just install a block off plate on top of the insulation? Reflective heat shield sounds good too.. maybe I can find something like that.

Pete: Thanks, that gives me hope. My house can be a bit drafty -- I'm working on that, little by little, but I dont think getting air to the stove is the problem. The top and front door seal properly, I think. The problem I have with the damper is it doesn't "lock" fully forward anymore. It just won't stay, so I leave it with the handle straight down -- the door is closed and the secondary burn is working at this point. Is the damper tightly closed? I don't know. How do I get to the adjustment screw?

Inferno: You were right, I dont have a block off plate, but it is stuffed with insulation.


And guys, let me just clarify. With the front door open, I can't stand in front of the stove for very long. It is very, very hot. Or when I'm loading it from the top, I sweat like no other -- it is so hot! But when the doors are closed, you can barely feel the heat off the stove.

What do you think about BioBricks? Maybe I should buy a few just to test the stove.

Thanks again.

 

[begreen]

Do you have a thermometer on the stove top of the stove? If so, what temps are you seeing?

 

[sshtac]

Yes.. I have a thermometer on the top of the stove in the back right corner. I typically get it up to 500' or so when starting up. Then when the stove is on autopilot during the day, it hovers around 350-400'. When I come down in the morning it's down to about 200-250'.

 

[Woody Stover]

I see that there's a rear heat shield available for this stove; Would that help get the heat out into the house instead of heating up the fireplace?

 

[Pallet Pete]

.

Pete: Thanks, that gives me hope. My house can be a bit drafty -- I'm working on that, little by little, but I dont think getting air to the stove is the problem. The top and front door seal properly, I think. The problem I have with the damper is it doesn't "lock" fully forward anymore. It just won't stay, so I leave it with the handle straight down -- the door is closed and the secondary burn is working at this point. Is the damper tightly closed? I don't know. How do I get to the adjustment screw?

On my stove you can see it through the front of the stove it is in the middle of the damper a slight turn in or out makes a huge difference. As for the locking I think that might fix it if not your damper might be warped from an over fire but this seems unlikely as your temps would have to be very very hot to do that.

Pete

 

[branchburner]

The stairs to go up is open all the way to the 3rd floor which is a bit like a loft.

Welcome to the forums! Agree with Dennis on the oak, and on blowing cold air into the warmer room, but I think your bigger problem may be above: the open stairway up three floors.

My stove setup is almost exactly like yours (right down to the fan by the stove), except in a much smaller two-story 1700s cape... rather poorly insulated and drafty. The stairwell has a downstairs door; if that door is closed, the downstairs heats up very well, often too well. But with the door open, the stairwell acts like a chimney and the warm air rushes right up (some warming the upstairs, no doubt, but some warming the attic/outdoors).

I'm guessing that maybe much of your your heat is escaping up (and maybe out). The difference when my stairway door is closed is dramatic. If you have no door but there is a way to close off your stairwell temporarily, it would be a good experiment.

As someone said, you just may not have a big enough stove for your house. The rating from Harman cannot be assumed for any type of house in any climate, and I'm afraid its heating ability may not be enough for yours (my stove was bought used from someone who couldn't get it to heat a house your size). You can burn with a bit more air for shorter, hotter burn times, but don't push it too hard. I find when it's really cold, I can't let the stove burn a full cycle - I have to reload mid-way to keep the heat output up if I want the upstairs warm. It may be the stove is only big enough to heat your downstairs well.

 

[branchburner]

My money is he does not have a block off plate and that heat is going up and transferring out the masonry.

This is a big deal, because all that secondary combustion is throwing heat out the back of the stove. The fan could even be helping pushheat up. Insulation helps, but that insulation is not going to be airtight the way a metal plate would be. This might make a big difference.

 

[Huntindog1]

That 2200sqft 1820's farm house, how much insulation did you put in it when you renovated it? How drafty is the house. The big open floor plan may be an issue with a not so well insulated house.

 

[sshtac]

Pete thanks.. Pretty warm in CT today (60' outside) so I let the fire die out, I'll look for the adjustment screw when I get home.

branchburner Well.. it'd be pretty difficult for us to close off the stairs going up... but maybe I can jigger something with blankets, temporarily. I'll try that this weekend! As for a metal plate, is that something they sell, or do I need to special order?

Huntindog We didn't renovate.. we bought the house 2009. When we put the chimney in, we opened up the outside wall and we found it was insulated pretty well I think. Also, they used 5/8" sheetrock which I was told is better than the norm. But since the foundation is stone, there's nice gaps in between the foundation and the house. I've since closed these off with cinderblock, cement, and spray foam in between the block and the house. That helped tremendously, the basement used to be very drafty, but no more. I've also found drafts coming from under the kitchen cabinets and I've sealed up all those holes with spray foam. The last thing that's left is to insulate the floor in our bathroom, which is over crawl space, not the basement. That I can't get to without tearing the floor up -- so probably won't get done for a long time now.

 

[branchburner]

Block-off info (there's a good pic of it at the bottom of the page):
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/making_a_block_off_plate/

I don't have one, myself, but my liner is insulated above (with perlite) and sealed at the top with a top-plate. I know there is some loss to the masonry, but with a center-chimney I'm not losing much to the outdoors.

It sounds like your chimney is exterior. That makes heating the house harder, as your chimney is going to transfer much more heat to the great outdoors than would an interior chimney. This is especially the case with no block-off plate.

EDIT: BTW, is your liner insulated?