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Harman PB105 Owners

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by Chris04626, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. katman

    katman Member

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    Yes, I understand that 140 is the lowest setpoint. My recollection is Harman doesn't want lower temps because of concerns about moisture/condensation. I'm not an engineer but it seems like other designs employing a separate water storage system get around this consideration and may be more efficient. I looked at several arrangements but for me the Harman does the job and has a small footprint. I use heat pumps until temps drop around mid-november and then I switch to the pellet boiler. I don't use the outside air sensor so cycling is minimal and I think my pellet consumption is pretty reasonable.

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  2. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    What are the pros and cons of the outdoor sensor?
  3. katman

    katman Member

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    As I understand it, the outside sensor influences how hot the boiler burns. I'd have to go back and look at the manual, but I think it influences the high limit that you have set based on the outside temperature. I think it has a preset range of about 20 degrees. So, if the outside temp is, say, O degrees, and you have a low limit of 140 and a high of 185, your boiler will come on at 140 and off at 185. But if the outside temp is 20, your cutoff might be about 165, even if your setpoint is 185. There should be a table in the manual that shows how it works. It might be useful to you up in Maine, but where I am in Maryland we can get daytime temps in the mid to upper 40s or above and then down to low 20s when the sun goes down. And we usually don't have any snow on the ground. I tried the outside sensor for a brief period and didn't see much if any benefit. I'll try it again if we have a real cold spell.
  4. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    How do you set it to do this?
  5. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    This morning i noticed a stroke some smell coming from the basement, i went down, they stove wasnt running, but there was smoke coming from underneath the hopper, i looked in the door and it was filled with smoke. I turned it to test to try to evacuate the smoke, once it was clear i noticed a bunch of un burned pellets in the ash tray,

    Any idea what may have happened?

    When yours starts up does alot of smoke come out the vent outside?

    What exactly is the screw in the firebox door for
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2013
  6. ScotL

    ScotL Feeling the Heat

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    Sounds like a failed start. Could be time to scrape down the burn pot and clean out under it and around the ignitor.

    Mine does smoke when it starts. The longer between cleanings I go, the more it smokes and longer it takes to start.

    The screw on the firebox door might have to do with the air-wash for the window. I don't remember it. It might just be to plug a hole designed for something else.
  7. moey

    moey Minister of Fire

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    I hope you get this resolved this thread pains me to read when someone spends this much money and cant get the darn thing to function properly. Hopefully its all just growing pains.
    ScotL likes this.
  8. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    Yes I've cleaned the burn pot weekly and vacuum med the area underneath.

    Is been running fine since then. I will get through tonight and then it will have burned 4 bags since wends day morning

    Supposed to start getting colder after this week
  9. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    Came home from work, and checked the ashpan and there is alot of unburned pellets in there again. So its either not igniting very fast or its just being fed too much and spilling into the ash tray

    Does this outside sensor control the feed or does the feed knob on the stove?
  10. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    Ok i had the temp on the boiler at 180, we left the house for a couple hours with no hot water running or heat on, we came home and the boiler temp was back to 140 and the boiler turned back on. What would of caused it to drop 40 degrees?
  11. moey

    moey Minister of Fire

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    Thermal loss?? Our boiler would cycle every 3 hours or so to maintain temp. Its also possible your indirect cycled and dropped the temp of the boiler. Just guesses.
  12. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    not sure, didnt know if its something normal that happens or something is wrong somewhere
  13. katman

    katman Member

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    Hey Chris. I haven't been back here for a while and it seems you still are having a couple of issues. First, your question on how I have my system set up--basically, I have four zones for the house baseboard heet system. I still have my oil boiler in my subbasement and the pellet boiler is in my barn. I tried a few different circulator pumps to move the water heated by the pellet boiler to the house. The one I have on now moves the water slower than others I tried but seems to give me steadier warmth.

    Sounds like your smoke, unburned pellets is a startup issue. When you cleaned the stove did you unscrew the fines plate and clean out the fines? If that chamber is not clear your combustion air will be reduced, causing a backfire or "burp" that would produce the smoke. Also, slow startup could mean too many pellets are being dumped into the firebox and they are falling out unburned prior to ignition. This situation also can be due to fines restricting air flow.

    the reason your boiler was on when you returned home could be that it cycled water through your system and if the water had been stagnant because there wasn't a call for heat in a long time it was could anbd dropped the boiler temp way down so it was trying to recover.

    If I were you I would consider unplugging the outside air sensor, at least for a few days to see if the system performs differently. My boiler runs fine without it and I know there are others who live up in the colder areas don't use the sensor.
  14. ScotL

    ScotL Feeling the Heat

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    When you take that cover off the front of the burn pot to clean out inside the burn pot, be sure to lightly tap the guard over the ignitor a few times to knock out any ash stuck in there. The only time I have unburnt pellets is when the ignition doesn't work correctly. Ash in the ignitor or carbon on the surface of the burn pot will cause that in my stove. Cleaning the ignitor and scraping the surface of the burn pot fixes it for me. In fact, that's my sign that it's been too long since I cleaned mine.

    Have you checked to make sure the water circulator for the boiler isn't on all the time? There will be ambient heat losses of course but a circulator on all the time would dramatically increase any loses.

    I agree with moey. I'm hoping it's just the learning curve. It's awful to see someone having trouble with an expensive new system.
  15. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    I vacumed the little fine box below the burnpot.

    I have unplugged outdoor sensor for now to see how it goes without it

    I have feed at 4 and min at 140 and 185on the max

    I noticed temp got up to 195 before it shut down so gauge must be off
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  16. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    what does the circulator look like and how do i tell if its on all the time?
  17. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    How do i find the Fines area??? I was thinking it was the area under the burnpot with 2 wingnuts, but the manual said the fines are cover only has one wingnut. But i am not seeing anything with 1 wingnut.


    I am getting alot of smoke outside through the vent when it starts up to the point my neighbors stop thinking the house is on fire.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  18. ScotL

    ScotL Feeling the Heat

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    They look like this:


    Mine are smaller and green. They are very quiet. The only way I can hear mine is with my ear almost touching it.

    The fines area Katman mentioned is under the hopper. The bottom guard is held on with 4 screws. You loosen them and slide the entire bottom out then down off the screws. You'll want to have the power turned off. You'll see the auger motor and auger shaft. Underneath the hopper, on the opposite side from the control panel is a big wing nut. That's the fines cover.

    I've never had fines cause bad ignition. The only thing that's caused poor ignition for me (a large amount of smoke) is a dirty ignitor and carbon on the burnpot.
  19. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    i have one of those my water tank and one going to return on the pellet boiler, that one has a black box on it that has a selection knob that you can turn, he has it set in the middle.

    And i have one by the oil boiler
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
  20. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    How long does it take yours to reach temperature. It was 66 degrees inside i turned the thermostat to 70 and about 45 minutes later its only 69 in here.
  21. sinnian

    sinnian Minister of Fire

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    Set your max to 170*


    Just as long as it does/did with your oil boiler.
  22. ScotL

    ScotL Feeling the Heat

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    Yes. same with me. It takes the same amount of time for my house to get up to temperature no matter which boiler I use.
  23. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    Why should it be set at 170?
  24. sinnian

    sinnian Minister of Fire

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    Because 170* is more than enough to heat your house, thus saving pellets. Of course the oil man didn't tell you that. I actually have mine set for 160*, but didn't think you would go for that. When it gets REAL cold out, like single digits and below, I'll move it up to 170*.
  25. Chris04626

    Chris04626 Minister of Fire

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    i will give that a try, Should feed be at 4 or 3 or does it matter when the Outside sensor is used

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