Harman XXV install - update (facepalm)

[mfglickman]

I called the dealer today to walk through the issues I've been having with the XXV - not getting up to temp, feeding burning pellets over the side of the burnpot.

First a floor rep told me that it's normal for the stove to barely heat a 200 SF room, that it's normal to only be really warm when you're in front of it, she said that we'd still save $ on oil by shelling 2.5 bags of pellets/day into the stove on 50 degree days. I lost patience and asked to speak to a tech.

The tech asked a few questions about the install, and recommended 2 things:

1- Add some rock wool insulation around the pipe about where the damper would be if this chimney had one.
2- Install the flame guide. Yes, that's right, the installer left the flame guide as an unecessary piece. And I did not question him (hence facepalm).

I closed down the stove, scraped the burn pot and installed the guide. Just started it up again and am waiting to see what happens. The dealer felt this would help with the heat. I was alarmed to find that without it, ash and partially burned pellets were falling behind the ash pan into the bottom of the stove. Ugh.

Will keep y'all posted - hoping for good results!

Mary

 

[movemaine]

no flame guide? what the hell was he thinking and how did he miss it? It's a big piece of cast iron!

 

[jtakeman]

Let me guess, Valley Energy and a top not-so-notch installer!

 

[PJPellet]

no flame guide? what the hell was he thinking and how did he miss it? It's a big piece of cast iron!

X2. I agree. That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a long time. Make sure the flame guide is always on there, very important.

 

[mfglickman]

Last time I hire an installer from CL, despite good references.

So will the flame guide increase my heat output? Whadday'all think? I'm impatient now waiting to see what happens!

 

[yooper81]

I don't own a harmon but was curious what a "flame guide" was so I googled. pg. 6 of manual is the step about installing "flame guide". How would a paid installer miss a step like that????

 

[mfglickman]

I don't own a harmon but was curious what a "flame guide" was so I googled. pg. 6 of manual is the step about installing "flame guide". How would a paid installer miss a step like that????

Yeah, and the reason for my own facepalm is that I skipped over the assembly assuming he'd done it and went right to operation, maintenance, etc...I swear I read everything else!

 

[lbcynya]

So will the flame guide increase my heat output? Whadday'all think? I'm impatient now waiting to see what happens!

I don't think we can answer that question since we'd not dare run without it. :-o

Doesn't address potential problems with your venting, but it's a real good start... No flame guide, sheesh. Just when I think we've seen it all...

 

[mfglickman]

I don't think we can answer that question since we'd not dare run without it. :-o

Doesn't address potential problems with your venting, but it's a real good start... No flame guide, sheesh. Just when I think we've seen it all...

Fortunately the dealer was not at all concerned that the stove was damaged, since it's only been a few days. He said it could have caused damage over time, but not over a short period. Hope he's right

 

[DexterDay]

Did you seal the area going up your chimney with insulation or a block off plate?

Without something there... Hot air is rising up your chimney. Losing LOTS of BTU's without something there. I would have a plate on top the chimney and also one at the bottom, with insulation on top of it.

As for pellets feeding over the front edge, sounds like to much fuel or to little air.

Whats the problem with your venting??? With a liner, its hard to go over EVL (all vertical).

 

[mfglickman]

I am looking for a local source of rock wool. It is sealed at the top but not at the bottom. I don't think there is anything wrong with the vent unless it's too strong going out?

 

[smoke show]

Its also called stone wool.

Roxul is a brand name of stone wool.

If that helps.

 

[DexterDay]

I am looking for a local source of rock wool. It is sealed at the top but not at the bottom. I don't think there is anything wrong with the vent unless it's too strong going out?

If it was to strong, then you wouldnt have any half burned or still burning pellets into the ash pan. IMO. Sounds like the draft needs turned "Up".

Sealing the chimney will heat with heat loss. That stove should do more than just get that room warm. The dealer that said that, is off there rocker.

Just seen your past thread. If its not burning the pellets all the way, and the feed is on 3, then it would seem to me there is an air leak somewhere. Be it the hopper, the door, ash pan, etc..... Does not sound like your draft is to high.

Have you done the dollar bill test on these parts yet? Open the door, lid, etc. Place the bill half in and half out, then.close, seal, or latch door, then try and remove the dollar. If it pulls out with little to no resistance, then an adjustment must be made, or the gasket may need to be replaced (some new stoves come with bad or defective gaskets, sucks, but it happens).

Not a Big Harman guy. Dont fully get the workings of it. But on 3, the stove shouldnt be spewing half burned pellets. I gather that much from the one I have seen operate, and all the posts here. Most just set and forget on 4. That would be the highest rate in which the stove goes to (if needed). Thats why 3 sounds odd?

Hope they get you straightened out. You have an awesome stove. That should heat much more than just that room. But even if its the only room being heated. It should still be much warmer than that.... There is an overwhelming group of Harman Gurus here to help you (so dont listen to me....) Just my 2 cents on the little I know about Harmans, and pellet stoves in general.

But I would really look for air bypassing the pot, in the form of a leak (just for giggles).

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I called the dealer today to walk through the issues I've been having with the XXV - not getting up to temp, feeding burning pellets over the side of the burnpot.

First a floor rep told me that it's normal for the stove to barely heat a 200 SF room, that it's normal to only be really warm when you're in front of it, she said that we'd still save $ on oil by shelling 2.5 bags of pellets/day into the stove on 50 degree days. I lost patience and asked to speak to a tech.

The tech asked a few questions about the install, and recommended 2 things:

1- Add some rock wool insulation around the pipe about where the damper would be if this chimney had one.
2- Install the flame guide. Yes, that's right, the installer left the flame guide as an unecessary piece. And I did not question him (hence facepalm).

I closed down the stove, scraped the burn pot and installed the guide. Just started it up again and am waiting to see what happens. The dealer felt this would help with the heat. I was alarmed to find that without it, ash and partially burned pellets were falling behind the ash pan into the bottom of the stove. Ugh.

Will keep y'all posted - hoping for good results!

Mary

Mary,

You need to really look at all flues in that fireplace system.

Besides being a pump to pull hot air out of the area you are trying to heat it can also interfere with the stoves burn if you are using indoor air for combustion.

 

[lightyear]

Wow, the floor rep is a total idiot and should be moved to stocking shelves only.

MY harman xxv heats our 500+ sqft rooms it is in to 80 easy, and the upstairs to 76 or more on level 3. We don't use it on anything more than level 3 since it does well and uses less pellets.

Plus, the other 500+ sqft downstairs is always a decent 73-74.

Once it works, your rooms should warm up quickly. So, keep playing with it.

Ours works so well we don't even use our heat during the winter-pellts only.

 

[Lousyweather]

Its also called stone wool.

Roxul is a brand name of stone wool.

If that helps.

or mineral wool.......fairly cheap, 2'x4' sheet

 

[Lousyweather]

no flame guide? what the hell was he thinking and how did he miss it? It's a big piece of cast iron!

X2. I agree. That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a long time. Make sure the flame guide is always on there, very important.

lol- we had a customer once who got a stove, did a self-install, ran the stove and swore they never even got a flame guide (wasnt running "right")....hey, it can happen....we went out to put a flame guide in, and lo and behold, there is the flame guide, along with the remains of the manual and the room sensing probe, in the ash pan, all fused into a charred, dust mess! so much for reading the instructions and installing to the manufacturer's specs!

 

[ironpony]

everytime I try the dollar bill test on the seals
the dollar catches fire before I can pull it out

 

[Eatonpcat]

Last time I hire an installer from CL, despite good references.

So will the flame guide increase my heat output? Whadday'all think? I'm impatient now waiting to see what happens!

I'm with you on the Craigs List install guy, But I got beat down pretty good on here the time I said it was a bad idea!!

Good luck, I am sure these guys will get you up and runnin' smooth!!

 

[mfglickman]

Dollar bill test (on a COLD stove, lol) revealed: front door fine, top hopper door the dollar bill pulls right out. The gasket is rubber foam, not a rope gasket so it has some "give" to it anyway. Problem or no?

 

[lbcynya]

Dollar bill test (on a COLD stove, lol) revealed: front door fine, top hopper door the dollar bill pulls right out. The gasket is rubber foam, not a rope gasket so it has some "give" to it anyway. Problem or no?

No, as long as it seals uniformly and tight when the lid snaps down.

 

[MarkF48]

If you haven't blocked off the flue as of yet, something to try would be to light up a stick of incense and hold it near where the vent enters the chimney. You should be able to see if the smoke gets pulled into the chimney and if it does you can pretty much tell if that's where a bunch of your heat is going. Have you posted any photos of the stove install in any of your threads? Might help to see how it's vented to the chimney.

Since placing the flame guide where it belongs does it seem to be burning better? If it helps I can post a picture of how the flames look in my XXV for comparison.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Mary also has two other flues that need checking.

Nothing like chimney effect both to empty hot air and also to foul up combustion air if it is being drawn from inside the house.

 

[mfglickman]

Mary also has two other flues that need checking.

Nothing like chimney effect both to empty hot air and also to foul up combustion air if it is being drawn from inside the house.

One of my flues is sealed above the firebox with sheet metal like the sheet I removed from the flue that we're currently venting the stove into. I could pull that and see what the draft is like - but it is sealed at the top below the cap. The other flue was recenly lined with a SS liner and vents the oil burner. Obviously not sealed at the top (!) so what should I be looking for in that one?

I lit a match and blew it out in the chimney that the XXV is vented into, and the smoke just hung there. There are cobwebs up there too (I stuck my head in as far as my claustrophobia would allow).

On another note, the inspector was here and quite liked the stove and installation, so I can now officially fire up the stove (cough...).

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Mary also has two other flues that need checking.

Nothing like chimney effect both to empty hot air and also to foul up combustion air if it is being drawn from inside the house.

One of my flues is sealed above the firebox with sheet metal like the sheet I removed from the flue that we're currently venting the stove into. I could pull that and see what the draft is like - but it is sealed at the top below the cap. The other flue was recenly lined with a SS liner and vents the oil burner. Obviously not sealed at the top (!) so what should I be looking for in that one?

I lit a match and blew it out in the chimney that the XXV is vented into, and the smoke just hung there. There are cobwebs up there too (I stuck my head in as far as my claustrophobia would allow).

On another note, the inspector was here and quite liked the stove and installation, so I can now officially fire up the stove (cough...).

Your layout diagram indicates three fire place openings. All of them need to be checked.

Where are you taking your combustion air from?

Did the flame guide make any difference when you installed it?

ETA: You are looking for light or air currents.