Has There Been Any Response From Condar?

[DanCorcoran]

Someone on this forum exchanged calls and/or emails with Condar last week, regarding the accuracy of their thermometers. They were supposed to receive a reply Monday, when Condar's technical person returned to the office.

Does anyone know if there has been or will be a response?

 

[cmcramer]

Right.

My brand new Condar FlueGuard is still its box....awaiting to be installed in my nice new double-walled stovepipe....

 

[Highbeam]

I'm here to check on this too. I recently bought two of their meters with the understanding that they are the most accurate meter available. Perhaps we all should be sending in info requests. I was thinking about it last night and I may have more creosote because of this meter reading too high all the time. Is condar causing creo accumulation? Are they now responsible for the chimney fire? If the meter was inaccurate the other way and read way too high then I could overfire the flue and also create a chimney fire.

This is more than just a measuring device, it is a safety device. The condar folks have an obligation to deliver an accurate product that performs to the level of accuracy that their literature specifies.

 

[firefighterjake]

Maybe I'm just a simpleton . . . well I am . . . but that's a whole other thread and topic . . . but while it would be nice to have a stove thermometer that is precise and 100% accurate I guess I have always viewed the Condar thermometers like every other stove thermometer . . . as a rough guide . . . not a precision instrument.

As to these being so crucially important . . . well I am a big fan of thermometers, but it seems to me one relatively simple way to tell if the Condar probe thermometer is doing its job is simply checking one's chimney . . . I mean call me crazy . . . but even if my Condar is registering higher temps than what are really being shown (and I have no idea as to whether this is true or not) . . . it doesn't matter since my monthly check and cleaning is producing very little of that fine coffee-ground like creosote . . . and at the end of the burning season to me that is what really matters . . . that my thermometer show me temps to keep me from over-firing and damaging the chimney and from "under-firing" and causing excessive creosote build up . . . so far, so good.

 

[Peter B.]

while it would be nice to have a stove thermometer that is precise and 100% accurate I guess I have always viewed the Condar thermometers like every other stove thermometer . . . as a rough guide . . . not a precision instrument.

I don't think I'd be that bent out of shape about it either, but at this page on Condar’s site -

http://www.condar.com/probe_meters_dir4use_woodstoves.html

... is the flat statement:

“When properly installed, the FlueGard accurately reads flue-gas temperatures, with an error margin less than 5%.”

If that's what they claim, that's what they ought to deliver.

I think some other forum members are putting together direct probe vs. IR comparisons... that may be more meaningful than anything Condar has to say, or for that matter, any of us.

Peter B.

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[Highbeam]

Direct probe vs. IR is pretty meaningless. You are measuring two different things. Direct probe vs. a probe thermocouple would actually be comparing apples to apples.

Do you NEED a flue temp meter? No. I like to use gauges to measure efficiency instead of just winging it and hoping for the best and I don't inspect my chimney until spring. Also, according to my condar probe meter I had been abusing my chimney with excessive temperatures for years. That info wouldn't have been uncovered without using a gauge.

 

[Peter B.]

Direct probe vs. IR is pretty meaningless. You are measuring two different things. Direct probe vs. a probe thermocouple would actually be comparing apples to apples.

My mistake... the pending test(s) ARE Condar probe vs. digital probe.

Sorry for the confusion...

Peter B.

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[pen]

No responses yet. I am going to wait another day or 2 and send another email.

I did receive an initial response that my question was going to the head tech guy at Condar, but I havn't heard anything beyond that.

pen

 

[DanCorcoran]

I, too, have two unopened Condar's (probe for flue and magnetic for stovetop) and am waiting to see their response. Before ordering the probe, I called and spoke with their customer service to be sure the probe would be accurate on single-wall pipe and was assured it would be.

I've used pellet stoves for years, but never a woodstove. I don't want to mess up a new Hearthstone through ignorance. (This forum has been a huge help, but at least with thermometers I won't have to depend on, "Ooops, it's glowing cherry red...too hot!)

 

[wendell]

I, too, have two unopened Condar's (probe for flue and magnetic for stovetop) and am waiting to see their response. Before ordering the probe, I called and spoke with their customer service to be sure the probe would be accurate on single-wall pipe and was assured it would be.

I've used pellet stoves for years, but never a woodstove. I don't want to mess up a new Hearthstone through ignorance. (This forum has been a huge help, but at least with thermometers I won't have to depend on, "Ooops, it's glowing cherry red...too hot!)

Well, actually you can't depend on that anymore anyway since you're going to be a Stoner. Now, it's "My stove just cracked in two, I guess it musta been too hot."

 

[Highbeam]

Doh! Hearthstone makes iron stoves too.

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hsshel.htm

 

[wendell]

Man, do I feel foolish.

 

[DanCorcoran]

Yes, I think many people see Hearthstone and assume soapstone. Mine, of course, is cast iron.

 

[CodyWayne718]

Well I have a Condar Inferno on its way to me, I'm sorta lost on whats goin on here...should i leave it in the box until someone posts on here that they are good to go??

 

[mikepinto65]

I have both the Inferno and probe flue guard and im, once again, at ease with them reading true. I put my three old rutlands back on last night and found that they all read real close to each other. The probe was double the exterior of the stove pipe, and the inferno was side by side the rutlands for stove top temp.

 

[Todd]

I have both the Inferno and probe flue guard and im, once again, at ease with them reading true. I put my three old rutlands back on last night and found that they all read real close to each other. The probe was double the exterior of the stove pipe, and the inferno was side by side the rutlands for stove top temp.

According to Condar your probe should read 50% higher than your Inferno, so your off by 50%.

 

[mikepinto65]

I have both the Inferno and probe flue guard and im, once again, at ease with them reading true. I put my three old rutlands back on last night and found that they all read real close to each other. The probe was double the exterior of the stove pipe, and the inferno was side by side the rutlands for stove top temp.

According to Condar your probe should read 50% higher than your Inferno, so your off by 50%.

I thought that was what I said?...double the exterior of the stope pipe reading i.e.: 400 stove pipe, 800 internal.

 

[Pagey]

I have both the Inferno and probe flue guard and im, once again, at ease with them reading true. I put my three old rutlands back on last night and found that they all read real close to each other. The probe was double the exterior of the stove pipe, and the inferno was side by side the rutlands for stove top temp.

According to Condar your probe should read 50% higher than your Inferno, so your off by 50%.

I thought that was what I said?...double the exterior of the stope pipe reading i.e.: 400 stove pipe, 800 internal.

What they're saying is that 50% (i.e., .50) of 400F would be 400F x .50 = 200F. So, 400F + 200F = 600F. 800F internal is 100% higher, not 50% higher (using the math I just demonstrated). Or am I off base here?

 

[mikepinto65]

I have both the Inferno and probe flue guard and im, once again, at ease with them reading true. I put my three old rutlands back on last night and found that they all read real close to each other. The probe was double the exterior of the stove pipe, and the inferno was side by side the rutlands for stove top temp.

According to Condar your probe should read 50% higher than your Inferno, so your off by 50%.

I thought that was what I said?...double the exterior of the stope pipe reading i.e.: 400 stove pipe, 800 internal.

What they're saying is that 50% (i.e., .50) of 400F would be 400F x .50 = 200F. So, 400F + 200F = 600F. 800F internal is 100% higher, not 50% higher (using the math I just demonstrated). Or am I off base here?

Oh i guess so, I always thought it was suppose to be doubled.

 

[Battenkiller]

What they're saying is that 50% (i.e., .50) of 400F would be 400F x .50 = 200F. So, 400F + 200F = 600F. 800F internal is 100% higher, not 50% higher (using the math I just demonstrated). Or am I off base here?

No, you're right on the mark. Percentages confuse most folks because of the way they are expressed.

I used to have a job managing a produce department for an upstart independent grocer. They told me they wanted a 1/3 profit margin, so I marked everything up 50%. They yelled at me for marking it all up 50% and told me to start marking it up 33%. The customers just loved it because we were even cheaper than the big chains, but when they started to compare their produce receipts against the cost of goods sold, they found out that they were only getting a 25% profit margin. They got angry with me and told me to not order so much produce because I obviously must have been throwing tons of spoiled produce away for them to lose 8% like that. No amount of explaining the math behind percentages (even doing it the way you did above) was able to sway them. I soon left for a better job, and about 6 months later I went back to visit and they were out of business. I'll bet they applied that pricing strategy to all of their departments.

Sorry for the hijack, I just thought it was funny enough to share here.

 

[BrotherBart]

I used to have a job managing a produce department for an upstart independent grocer. They told me they wanted a 1/3 profit margin, so I marked everything up 50%. They yelled at me for marking it all up 50% and told me to start marking it up 33%. The customers just loved it because we were even cheaper than the big chains, but when they started to compare their produce receipts against the cost of goods sold, they found out that they were only getting a 25% profit margin. They got angry with me and told me to not order so much produce because I obviously must have been throwing tons of spoiled produce away for them to lose 8% like that. No amount of explaining the math behind percentages (even doing it the way you did above) was able to sway them. I soon left for a better job, and about 6 months later I went back to visit and they were out of business. I'll bet they applied that pricing strategy to all of their departments.

Yep. The retailer's graveyard is full of companies that made the same mistake.

 

[Highbeam]

In the other thread I posted the possibility that condar themselves blew this percentage trick when they wrote the manual. It is easy to say that since it should be double one way that it should be 50% the other. Math is not easy for everyone, writing a spec sheet to sell thermometers is not done by engineers it is done by marketing people that might not have a grasp on real math. I still expect the outside of single wall to be half the temperature of the inside.

I moved from a rutland stove top to an inferno (by condar) stove top meter and with both side by side they read exactly the same. I was impressed and can only assume that they are both correct. The inferno looks much better since I painted the pointer white. Until you paint that pointer white, just like the probe meter, you will have a hard time seeing it compared to the big needle of the rutland.

This delay that we are all sitting through is because condar is waking up and realizing that there was a BIG mistake. I hope that they settle up with us or tell us what to do to recalibrate the meter. You can bet that if there was a simple answer they would have already given it to us.

 

[pen]

In the other thread I posted the possibility that condar themselves blew this percentage trick when they wrote the manual. It is easy to say that since it should be double one way that it should be 50% the other. Math is not easy for everyone, writing a spec sheet to sell thermometers is not done by engineers it is done by marketing people that might not have a grasp on real math. I still expect the outside of single wall to be half the temperature of the inside.

I moved from a rutland stove top to an inferno (by condar) stove top meter and with both side by side they read exactly the same. I was impressed and can only assume that they are both correct. The inferno looks much better since I painted the pointer white. Until you paint that pointer white, just like the probe meter, you will have a hard time seeing it compared to the big needle of the rutland.

This delay that we are all sitting through is because condar is waking up and realizing that there was a BIG mistake. I hope that they settle up with us or tell us what to do to recalibrate the meter. You can bet that if there was a simple answer they would have already given it to us.

I'll send a follow up email tomorrow since it has been a week.

pen

 

[BrotherBart]

Three years ago I sent a email to Condar with a question about a remote probe made by them that I own. Three months later an answer to the wrong question came back.

 

[Todd]

Yeah, don't hold your breath if you e-mail, best thing to do is keep calling them.