1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

Help - New stove options?

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by mepellet, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    Loc:
    Central ME
    We currently have an old franklin style wood stove that we would like to replace in the near future. It was in the house when we bought it about 3 years ago. It is hooked up to an 8" chimney. The hearth is brick and measures 37"x49". We would like to put a new stove in the corner but I don't know how that would work with the existing chimney. I think installing a new chimney is going to be cost prohibitive at this time.

    The house is about 2200 square feet but the wood stove is on the second of five levels which includes the stove room kitchen and dining room. Basement is below wood stove level. Half story between basement and wood stove level is the living room level. Half story above the wood stove level are three bedroom and a bathroom. And half story above that is another bedroom and an office. I know... confusing.... The house has average insulation in walls and new windows were installed 2 years ago. Attic is under insulated (4" of some sort of loose fill insulation) and is one of the next projects on the list.

    Our heating situation.... we have a 4 zone oil fired boiler with 3 zones of finned tube baseboard and an indirect domestic water heater. Also have a pellet stove installed in the living room level. Last year was our first year with the pellet stove and we burned 2.5 tons of pellets and were a lot warmer than the previous years using the oil fired boiler. We would still use the pellet stove as our primary heat but want a more efficient and safer wood stove. We usually burn a little more than a cord in the franklin wood stove. I'd love a stove that could provide a sufficient amount of heat so we wouldn't need to use the pellet stove or oil fired boiler but also could be run on "low."

    So, what are my options with the chimney routing if we do extend or replace the hearth and install a new stove in the corner? Would it even be possible? It certainly would look funny I would think but would it be possible until we could replace the chimney?

    What are my options if we reuse the existing hearth and chimney? Are there any decent affordable stoves that would work with the existing hearth size and an 8" chimney? Or is it possible to use any stove that wants a 6" and just put a damper in the interior stove pipe?

    What other options do I have?

    I also included a picture of the brickwork condition behind the stove. Do you think this is some sort of fire rated board behind the lower portion of brick? It only goes up 48" above the floor.

    Attached Files:

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. jeff_t

    jeff_t Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    3,607
    Loc:
    SE MI
    That hearth is likely inadequate for any stove. It will need to be extended forward for most anything. Might be okay for a side loading stove. Rear clearance is usually workable with a heat shield and/or blowers.

    For the 8" pipe, I would of course recommend the Blaze King King, but that thimble looks mighty low. You might have draft issues with whatever you put there.

    What is your definition of affordable?
  3. firecracker_77

    firecracker_77 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,438
    Loc:
    NWI office - 2 Heritages; Chicago home - Woodstock
    I'd keep with the 8" pipe too. There's a number of stoves needing 8". The hearth work shouldn't be too bad if you need to expand it. I like the idea of a Blaze King. They can burn low and slow!!!
  4. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,010
    Loc:
    Nothern Lower Michigan
    Your thimble is low, but not unlike mine. I wouldn't be concerned except that your overall chimney height also looks low. I don't think your hearth will work either, though. Codes requite a minimum of 16" from any door on the stove, so either front or side-loader probably won't fit.

    How does your current stove draw? With a shortish chimney, I would try to stick with stoves requiring 8" flues. A damper isn't going to help becuase your issue is likely to be not enough draft. EPA stoves generally like more draft than those older stoves.

    If you expand the hearth and keep the chimney, you could line it with a 6" liner. It would certainly be less expensive that a whole new chimney and would give you more stove options.

    You could relocate the stove with a new chimney and hearth in the corner. It would be best if the chimney could run on the interior up through the roof in that case.

    Whatever you choose, I think you'd be able to put a huge dent in your heating needs with a properly installed EPA stove.
  5. jeff_t

    jeff_t Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    3,607
    Loc:
    SE MI
    I am concerned with how that pipe passes through the combustible wall. There is no thimble thru the brick, which is fine. But, what is behind the brick? I would be very cautious before proceeding, or firing the stove that is already present.
  6. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    Loc:
    Central ME
    The centerline if the thimble is 54" above the hearth.
    Not sure exactly what affordable will be when the time comes but what if I said $1500? What about $3000? What would the options be at those price points?
  7. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    Loc:
    Central ME
    What other stoves take 8"? Know any without doing research?
  8. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    Loc:
    Central ME
    The thimble is 54" above the hearth.

    I figured at a minimum we would have to address the hearth. How do you recommend modifying it?

    The current stove has enough draft I think. It can get going quickly and I bvd to close the "dampers" on the front of the stove completely sometimes.

    What would a 6" liner cost (ballpark)? What about a new pipe in the corner and up straight like you mentioned? I have attic/knee wall space directly above this area so going up through the roof wouldn't be a big problem.

    Think i mentioned this before but we still want to use the pellet stove as our primary source of heat but use the wood stove on the coldest nights and on other occasions so the pellet stove didn't have to run as hard.

    Thanks for your help!
  9. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    Loc:
    Central ME
    I am not sure what is directly behind the brick. I believe there are at least two layers of siding on the house. Maybe the sided over the thimble outside? I attached a closeup photo of the inside where the pipe enters the hole in the wall. Maybe this is the thimble and they didn't put a trim piece around it? What do you think? How can I tell if a thimble was installed? Can I remove the cleanout cap outside and look in?

    Attached Files:

  10. jeff_t

    jeff_t Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    3,607
    Loc:
    SE MI
    That doesn't look too good outside either, does it? Is there enough clearance where the soffit is notched? Looks pretty tight, but I'm using my phone and the pic is pretty small. Is the siding up tight to the pipe? Class A pipe is supposed to have 2" ctc.

    If you look in the pipe, all you're going to see is the inside of the pipe. You need to peel the siding back a bit and see what's behind.
  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    48,168
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    I agree with jeff_t's concerns. Make sure the current piping is safe. If you can post a close up of where the tee leg enters the house that would help. Also check clearances in the cut up through the soffit.

    Even if these issues are cleared, it looks like there is about 12ft of vertical pipe outside and maybe 3 ft inside and it's 8". Taking a 6" stove and venting it to 8" will spoil the draft somewhat and modern stoves often like good draft. There are some 8" stoves but they are larger so then the concern would be about overheating the area. When you were burning the Franklin, how well did it heat? Does the heat convect well out of this area to the rest of the house?

    If the flue is safe, I'm thinking a Woodstock Keystone right now. It is catalytic and vents into a 7" connector, but we need to know more about the viability of the current flue before going further.
  12. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,010
    Loc:
    Nothern Lower Michigan
    I like this recommendation. Note that the minimum hearth size for the Keystone is 36" X 52", but they recommend 44"X58". I think you need the 58" width to be able to center the stove on the hearth. Either way, you could probably just get by with widening the hearth a bit and leave the depth as is. You could even use a hearth pad at the loading side and be OK.

    The first step is to make sure your chimney is safe. If it is, your most economical option will certainly be to work with the chimney and hearth you have, modify the hearth a bit as needed, and get a new stove that fits. Essentially, you'd be looking at the cost of a new stove plus a few small related costs.

    If your chimney is unsafe and/or you really want the new stove to go in the corner, this will cost much, much more. The actual cost will depend on how much you can properly do yourself and many other factors. I'd say determining if you existing chimney is safe is the place to start. From there, you can better examine your options.
  13. argali66

    argali66 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    41
    Loc:
    Orland, Maine
    The Hearthstone 1, Hearthstone Equinox and Vermont casting's Defiant all take 8" Stove Pipe.
  14. Hanko

    Hanko Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    795
    Loc:
    livingstion co, Michigan
    buy what you like, except dont get a votezeldouche or what ever you callem
  15. firecracker_77

    firecracker_77 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,438
    Loc:
    NWI office - 2 Heritages; Chicago home - Woodstock
    Get a Hearthstone 1 and slather on some suntan lotion...you'll be burning in the radiant heat. LOL!!! :cool:
  16. argali66

    argali66 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    41
    Loc:
    Orland, Maine
    I'll second that! I can easily get the Hearthstone up to 550 Degrees and even though it has been High 30's Low 40's at night this week, it has been getting HOT in our Living Room. I had to open the windows last night after we got the H 1 running. Feels good, But MAN it is a Heat Beast!!!
  17. firecracker_77

    firecracker_77 Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,438
    Loc:
    NWI office - 2 Heritages; Chicago home - Woodstock
    How much smoke comes out of the chimney. Does it burn to where you can't see smoke?
  18. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    Loc:
    Central ME
    It doesn't look quite like 2" but is close in the roof line notches. The siding is not up tight to the pipe but def closer than 2".

    Attached Files:

  19. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    Loc:
    Central ME
    When burning the franklin it heats the stove room quite a bit. In the 80 degree area and the bedrooms upstairs get to the 70 degree area. I have read that people dont think the franklin stoves put out much heat but I feel like mine does.

    I still need to figure out if there is a thimble.

    The wife likes the look of the Vermont Castings Intrepid II if we have to redo the hearth and chimney.

    Attached Files:

  20. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    The thimble should be visible. Like your pellet stove thimble and vent, the thimble should be much larger than the pipe diameter and should protrude out both sides of the house.

    I know this has been in the works. So its best to make sure its done right.

    Even if you decide to go with a 6" vented stove, lining is a good option (if all checks out)..
  21. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    48,168
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    It looks pretty clear that whoever installed the chimney did not honor its clearance requirements. That will probably mean a tear out. But the piping could be sold so that you could recover some of the replacement expense. The good news is that 6" class A will fit where this pipe was with good clearances.

    I think you are going to need more stove than the Intrepid II. The room can be easily cooled down with a fan blowing in air from a cooler area in the house into this room. That will keep the room comfortable and will convect the room heat to the house. Also, consider a convective stove instead of the radiant Intrepid for more comfort. Show her the following stoves for starters: Quadrafire Cumberland Gap, Pacific Energy Alderlea T5, Napoleon 1600C, and the Enviro Boston 1700. And also consider a soapstone stove perhaps? A Woodstock Fireview could work hear quite well I think.
  22. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    Loc:
    Central ME
    Thanks everyone for the recommendations!

    I think we will end up removing the existing hearth and chimney and do a new install in the corner. Not sure when but I am one that likes to plan out projects well in advance to the tiniest detail. Or at least try to.... they always end up changing.

    Anyway, Id like to build the new hearth large enough for any future changeout to a different stove. Probably go up straight through the attic and then the roof. What are some of the most stringent hearth requirements for stoves? I assume thermal protection. But how much? Id like to iron out hearth size and flue location (looking at ceiling and roof framing) so any new stove could also go straight up and then ill figure out hearth finish materials and then finally the stove.
  23. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    48,168
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    There's a wide gamut of stove requirements for clearance and insulation. I think the highest we have seen here is about R=2.0 and that is rare.

    Building the hearth oversized is fine, remember the stove mfg. hearth requirements are only the minimums. There's no harm in going bigger and if designed right, some nice advantages like wood storage space.

    Tom has some good installation specs on his website. Take a look at the Hearthstone Heritage and Mansfield for example.

    Hearthstone Heritage (side loader), R=1.2 min. http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/chsher.htm
    Mansfield (front loader), needs ember protection http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/chsmans.htm
  24. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    Loc:
    Central ME
    When the clearance section of the owners manual says protected wall what does that mean? I assume drywall would be considered an unprotected wall....
  25. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,960
    Loc:
    Central ME
    What about cat stoves? I didnt see one listed in the stoves suggested.

Share This Page