Help with Jotul F 3 CB install

[eddy]

I need some help with an install. I realize getting a professional is preferred because it's safer, but we just got another 12" of snow and my installers are booked up until late November. So I thought I would at least get this started.

Here's where it gets tricky. I have about 19' of slightly used Class A Selkirk Metalbestos, a cap, flashing, and a storm collar. Instead of paying for pipe, I'm just going to use the Class A all the way from stove to cap and paint it black.

But, I want to vent my stove from the rear. That's where it gets trickier. I had to buy a double wall elbow. In my pile I found an adapter -- single wall to class A. My thought is to trim the single wall part of the adapter (the single wall is about 18" now) to fit in the top of the elbow. The single wall becomes the male end, and the top of the elbow female. This seems fine to me, but the crimped top of the dbl wall elbow is on the outside. Is that okay?

Second question: the collar on the Jotul is 6", and the outer wall of the dbl wall elbow is 6.5". The elbow's crimped inner wall does slide into the collar, but it all feels loose. Has anyone else dealt with this? Do I need an adapter here?

Finally, I will need a way of supporting all this pipe. The hardware store where I bought my stove recommended supporting the Class A in the attic using metal plumber's tape. Any thoughts on this?

Anything else I'm missing? Thanks.

Ed

 

[begreen]

Welcome eddy. There's little to be gained by jerry rigging this and a lot at risk. The pipe needs to be properly supported. This can be done a number of ways, but using plumber's tape is not one of them. In order for us to make recommendations we will need to know more about the area the stove is being installed in. Is this a single story? Will the class A (Selkirk) go thru a ceiling between floors or is this a cathedral ceiling install?

 

[zzr7ky]

Hi -

I'm short on time. Many of the manufacturers have manuals and images available online to help with this type of thing.

I used Class A I got off Ebay and saved a good deal. I did need to order and adapter to go from single wall to Class A.

Hang in there.

Mike P

 

[eddy]

It is a single story with an attic, so the pipe is going through roof and ceiling. It's pretty close to a straight shot, if not absolutely straight.

I am very happy to do this right. I don't mean to sound like I'm jerry rigging. I just have some decent pipe at home, and not a lot of money. And I am full of doubt.

Oh, and I think I found the adapter I need: Selkirk Flush Stove Adapter 266249.

Eddy

 

[eddy]

I'm referring to the Jotul collar to elbow adapter. Still unsure about the Class A to double wall elbow connection.

 

[begreen]

First place to go is on Selkirk's website. Download the installation manual for this pipe. You will need a ceiling support box. Then just go to connector pipe for the remaining xx feet. If you allow 18" wall clearance you can use single-wall pipe. Less will need double-wall or a heatshield.

 

[eddy]

I really can't afford connector pipe, so I would prefer to run the Class A all the way to the double wall elbow coming out of the back of the stove, without the ceiling support box. Also, the space won't allow 18" clearance.

So, is there a way to go from Class A to a double wall elbow? I looked on the Selkirk site and couldn't find anything. And is there a way to support the Class A without a ceiling support box?

 

[begreen]

If you want to do this right and safely it's is going to cost for the parts like the support, the flashing and the connector pieces. A few feet of single-wall will be the lesser of expenses here.

 

[eddy]

Please explain what is unsafe about what I'm proposing.

 

[begreen]

There are definite regulations when penetrating a floor division with a fire bearing pipe. You need a fire block and a way of enforcing class A pipe clearances. These need to be observed. The pipe needs to be rigidly supported to stand up to wind and snow. Download Selkirk's installation manual to get the basic idea.

 

[firefighterjake]

Doing a job cheaply and affordably = smart.

Doing a job half cheaply and haphazardly = not smart.

My own philosophy is to do something right and stay safe . . . or not do it at all. Doing something just to save a buck will not make a lot of sense if the place catches on fire due to an improper installation . . . at least it will not make a lot of sense if you're standing outside in your driveway at 2 a.m. watching the place burn while waiting for the fire department to arrrive.

Good luck with your install . . . and keep asking questions . . . we'll get you through this . . . as cheap AND as safe as we can.

 

[begreen]

We can help you try to save money by avoiding pitfalls and errors. But we can't help you set up an unsafe structure. The flue has to be done right so that it is a safe, reliable, leak-free part of the infrastructure of the house. Borrow some money if need be, but don't compromise here as far as safety goes.

 

[eddy]

It's just a little confusing, and very frustrating, when the hearth expert at the store where I bought my woodstove recommended what you guys are calling an unsafe install.

 

[begreen]

I can only guess that the dealer was referring to using the class A pipe all the way to the stove. They are correct, that can be done. Usually it is not due to the bulk and cost. But it is safe. The points I have made are not about the connection, they are about how the pipe is supported and the critical safety needs for the ceiling penetration, attic insulation shielding, and clearances. Don't be deterred, but do take a moment to read up on how this needs to be done per the mfg. instructions. Here's a link: http://www.ventingpipe.com/mediabase/specifications/metalbestclassapipeinstall.pdf

One possibility might be to support the pipe at the roof with their URSA, but normally this is made for open and cathedral ceilings. Your issue is that you have a first floor ceiling penetration. However, the URSA combined with the attic insulation shield + its firestop on the interior ceiling side might work. It would be untrimmed, though they do make a trim ring. As you can see, these parts add up too, so there really is not a lot of savings. The recommended way is no more expensive and will get the job done properly. I'd sell the unneeded pipe and use it to help finance the new parts. This is home infrastructure. Do it correctly and you won't be worrying about a raging fire in the stove when it is blowing 60 outside.

proper ceiling support:
http://www.ventingpipe.com/metalbes...-chimney-pipe-square-ceiling-support/p1068891
attic insulation shield:
http://www.ventingpipe.com/metalbes...chimney-pipe-attic-insulation-shield/p1068882

alternative roof support
http://www.ventingpipe.com/metalbes...5-to-8-diameter-class-a-chimney-pipe/p1070019

 

[eddy]

Now this is something to chew on. Thanks.

 

[begreen]

No problem. Sorry to leave you hanging on this, but I had to wait until the weekend to have time to give a detailed reply with referring docs.