How do you get a shorter burn time?

[Grisu]

I just checked my PE Super insert after 5 1/2 hours of burning a mixed load of pine and ash. Just opened the air again a bit to burn down the coals some before reloading in maybe another half hour. Stove still reads 390 F. Since you say after 6 hours the Summit is not close to 400 F I am wondering whether you could not squeeze out a bit more heat. Are you filling up the box completely during a reload? Size of your splits? Sorry for the tired old question but sure your wood is dry? If your insert is in an exterior fireplace did you put insulation around it? Block-off plate? I usually turn the blower off after about 3 hours; how long do you keep yours running?

 

[begreen]

Your real problem is heat loss. Get an energy audit done and a blower door test to find those leaks.

 

[Ashful]

Not sure a cat stove is really that much better for this time of year. Sure the heat output is going to be more constant/level, but you're giving up that high heat you get in the beginning of the cycle. Avg heat is going to be the same.

Edit: Have never heard anyone with a cat stove (thinking BK) talk about how quickly they can burn up a load when set on high. So maybe if you can burn down a load in 5-6 hrs maintaining a 500F stovetop or higher, that would be better.

You can burn every bit as fast with a cat stove as with a non-cat... you just need to keep an eye on the catalyst temperature, as continuous temps above 1800F really shorten the life of the cat.

I have similar troubles to you, Dave A., and I think we're only a few miles apart (I'm in northern Mont.Co.). With two Jotul Firelights cranking thru three very full loads per day, I still can't keep temps up in real cold weather. When we had that 8 day stint of weather in the teens early last winter, I went thru a full cord of wood, and we were still cold. With two big stoves holding stovetop temps 300 - 600 all day 'round, our trouble wasn't making heat... it was keeping the heat we made. The 1994 addition does better, but it's open to a poorly-insulated 1894 addition, which is always cold. The 1770's part of the house has original windows and doors, and partially un-insulated attic. I suspect you're in a similar situation.

So, like me, you're focused on generating all you can. You should call your thread, "how to chew thru more wood faster," not "how to get a shorter burn time."

 

[valley ranch]

I have to admit I can't see why having coals in the stove is a problem. It's nice to through a split on coals and have the fire kick on. Is the problem that with coals you no longer have a secondary burn?

Happy Thanksgiving.

Richard

 

[begreen]

BrowningBar had a similar situation. This year he started insulating. I think he's going to get it down to two stoves and he likes the house to be 80F.

 

[dafattkidd]

Dave, I have had success heating a very drafty space with an undersized stove by doing the following: in the morning I would the thermostat up for 30 minutes or so to bring house temps up while loading the stove. Then I would load medium loads of wood more often throughout the day if I was home. This helped keep house temps steadier during cold spells. We also keep electric space heaters in our bedrooms.

I have since upgraded to an oversized insert for my heat needs, and I have greatly improved the insulation in my house. I don't think it's accurate to call my house drafty anymore.

 

[Seanm]

The 1770's part of the house has original windows and doors, and partially un-insulated attic. I suspect you're in a similar situation.

Sorry for going off topic here. Joful I would love to come to your house just to look at your windows! The idea of a house that old with original doors and windows is amazing! The fact that all the people who have owned that house over the years havent modernized them is neat. I just sold a little coal miners house in Fernie that dates back to just after the last great fire that destroyed town for the second time, circa 1910 and that is old!. Original doors and original fir floors. We were surprised the walls were even insulated. I told my clients to buy a little wood stove!.

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

Ah this is why I love the ACC system on my Quadrafire. I know this isn't what is was meant for but, when I get the red sea of doom and it won't allow me to fit much wood in there I shut down the main air intake completely and open up the ACC system. It gives more air from the back and burns down the thicker coals in the back while leaving the front ones at a slow burn. I seem to get more heat out of it this way than if I leave the ACC system shut and just use the main air intake, while also depleting my coal stash and making room for more wood.

I also agree that raking coals forward and piling them up in the front will also deplete them quite well in most any stove I've burned, then you can spread them out again for a re-load afterwards with quick response and secondaries in minutes with good dry wood.

 

[Hogwildz]

Just got in from my family's place and the stat reads 64.5. Feels pretty toasty compared to the 27 it is outside with wind chill off 22.
I didn't feel like reloading before I left. Let the coals burn down and almost out.
I'll be up to 68-70 before I retire.
I think what also happens is during the shoulder season, we become acclimated to the higher 70's to 80 degrees. Then when it gets colder out, high 60's seems a little chilly.
I just go with the flow, add or subtract clothes as needed.
Sure I could buy oil and pay out the arse and have a set temp. But I prefer the warm of everything in the home being warmed up, rather then just the air, which gets cooler in no time when the furnace turns off.

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

I think what also happens is during the shoulder season, we become acclimated to the higher 70's to 80 degrees. Then when it gets colder out, high 60's seems a little chilly.
I just go with the flow, add or subtract clothes as needed.

Yes, this is too true.

 

[oldspark]

This thread is funny, I kinda have the same issue as the OP but its more the size of my house and all the glass on the south side of the house plus its colder then hell here most of the winter.

 

[Dave A.]

Since you say after 6 hours the Summit is not close to 400 F I am wondering whether you could not squeeze out a bit more heat.

Here's what I said:

"No I don't think it's ever over 400F after 6 hours. I'll still get heat, the blower will be on well after 6 hrs but over 400F probably ends after 4 or 5 hours."

Haven't actually logged these temps, but as I recall it, during the first few hours it might be in the high 700's to high 500's in the 3rd hour. 400's in the 4th and 5th hours. Then in the 300's for hours and hours, dropping very gradually, still heating and maintaining temps but can't handle large drops in temp outside during this period, and if inside temps are dropping I'm wanting to reload.

One thing about these temps, I'm taking them from the top, pointing my IR into the opening. If I check the temps on the front (where my Inferno is attached) at later stages in the burn they will be a lot higher than the temps on top. E.g right now about 5 hours in it's 375 on top, 450 on the front.

I pack it pretty full, the wood seems dry, no water or foam coming out of the ends, no sizzling. What I could do and only rarely do, is after the fire burns a bit, fit a few more pieces in. Used to do that a lot more with the Century, but with that stove, I was just tied to it constantly going to it because the house was always getting cold. I don't want to have to do that -- tending to it every hour or two, anymore.

Splits vary in size from about 2x4's to 6x6's, I put the ones smaller than that aside for cold starts or burning coals. Ideally I'd use the real big ones for overnight, but they're not segregated, so I just take what's on top. And if I want a lot of heat, I pack it full and tight.

The fireplace is in the center of the house. There is an ersatz blockoff plate and roxul above the damper I meant to redo it this fall but it will have to wait till the spring -- if it warms up a little, I'll try to take a look at it. The surround is off, am planning on fabricating a custom ventilated surround.

The blower runs on medium and auto, unless the stove gets over 850, then I'll turn it up. It never is blowing cold air so I don't turn it off, since I don't use the room it's in and am not bothered by the noise, which is minimal anyway.

 

[Dave A.]

Your real problem is heat loss. Get an energy audit done and a blower door test to find those leaks.

Wouldn't even know where to go to get one, how much they cost, or how the whole thing works, other than what I've read where they're subsidized and they do the work for little cost in some locales, not mine though.

Ah this is why I love the ACC system on my Quadrafire. I know this isn't what is was meant for but, when I get the red sea of doom and it won't allow me to fit much wood in there I shut down the main air intake completely and open up the ACC system. It gives more air from the back and burns down the thicker coals in the back while leaving the front ones at a slow burn. I seem to get more heat out of it this way than if I leave the ACC system shut and just use the main air intake, while also depleting my coal stash and making room for more wood.

That's interesting. I recall when I looked at them, the dealer suggesting that the ACC system was more than just a timer to turn the air down to your desired setting after a startup or reload, but didn't really explain all it might do.

I also agree that raking coals forward and piling them up in the front will also deplete them quite well in most any stove I've burned

Never heard that as the reason for raking them forward, but it does make sense. Just for the heck of it, when trying to burn down some coals fast earlier today, I left the door open (good opportunity to use the firescreen for something). Meant to set the timer for about 45 min but must have forgotten. When I got back to it in over an hour the stove had gone completely cold -- actually I guess it had banked itself, everthing was covered with ash, and hardly much of a coal bed left, though when I raked things up it got hot again and there were plenty of coals for a reload.

Edit: But as far as raking the coals forward, I guess that applies to after a few hours where the front half of the wood has burned away and all that's left of the wood is in the back of the firebox, (not sure you'd call them coals, they turn into chunks when you pull them forward) so it probably makes sense to just pull all of that towards the front and turn up the air -- let it burn down as quick as possible, i.e. the times you're wanting additional heat.

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

Woodstoves are sweet aren't they?

The ACC system for me.... is just another way to feed air to the stove. It can be good in ways and bad in others. When it comes to a dead fire and a tiny bed of coals the stove starts better with no ACC and fire from the front. When it comes to a bed of coals you want to go away the ACC system is sweet as it provides air and the heat output FOR ME seems to be better. I have yet to use an IR but I may do this in the future to make sure it's not just a placebo for me. You have a great stove, it'll just take some tweaking and practice to make it optimal for you. I've never been unimpressed with a PE product right down the baseline True North which is a great stove. PE doesn't waste time with their metal.....

 

[Hogwildz]

Try that blower on high

 

[rideau]

Unless the stove gets over 850! That's rather hot.....

Raking the coals forward, and even adding a small split at that time, and opening the air about 1/2 way, increases heat output/time thus eveing out heat production and of course concurrently burning the coals down faster for an earlier reload.

 

[ddahlgren]

A couple bio-bricks work well for me to burn coals down and drive the stove temp up to 500 in short order. I can not get an overnight burn out of my little stove so the coals in the morning are a welcome sight to me to get going again. The pine no doubt better but have no source here for it

 

[Ashful]

Sorry for going off topic here. Joful I would love to come to your house just to look at your windows!.

You're welcome here any time. Just send me a PM to be sure I'm around, before making that drive from BC!

 

[oldspark]

You're welcome here any time. Just send me a PM to be sure I'm around, before making that drive from BC!

I just read your post Joful with the heating issues, I don't feel so bad at all now.

 

[Dave A.]

Try that blower on high

You did say that medium was okay when I first got it, (just to bust you, a bit). But I turned it up and will see if it helps.

 

[Dave A.]

Then I would load medium loads of wood more often throughout the day if I was home. This helped keep house temps steadier during cold spells.

Well, now you're the second one to suggest that, so I guess I'll have to give it a try (much as it goes against my judgment -- and desire not to have to spend more time tending it)

 

[Dave A.]

Unless the stove gets over 850! That's rather hot.....

I agree. That's why the fan would get put on high (and the air turned down). But most users aren't really aware of that. I only know because of readings with the IR. The front over the door where I have my mag thermo will not be that hot and the thermo will lag a bit as well as the stove is heating up so might only read 400 or 500 at the same time the IR is showing 800's on top over the heat shield.

 

[Dave A.]

Like Grisu said. I burn by necessity Lodgepole Pine which takes around 5 hours on a load.

Almost forgot I've got two huge 50 year old + pine trees that have to come down.

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

A couple bio-bricks work well for me to burn coals down and drive the stove temp up to 500 in short order. I can not get an overnight burn out of my little stove so the coals in the morning are a welcome sight to me to get going again. The pine no doubt better but have no source here for it

Bring a cord of your hardwood to Colorado and I'll give you all the pine you could dream of lol

 

[Hogwildz]

Almost forgot I've got two huge 50 year old + pine trees that have to come down.

Getem processed. No good for this year, but good for next year.