Hi, I was wondering just how good is my old VC Resolute, 70's vintage in tiptop shape, compared to todays EPA cert stoves as far as efficiency and grams of smoke produced goes? Thanks, Larry
How good is my old Resolute compared....
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Can't tell you the numbers, but not even close. Airtight VC stoves (I grew up with one) got longer burns so less heat went up the stack, but with the result of much higher emissions (and creosote formation). My Dad now burns his Defiant with the bypass open.
Anytime you remove heat from the smoke, you gunk up the pipe. In my opinion, the gain in heat you get from a given amount of wood is not worth the increased danger of a creosote fire in the stack.
As far as "higher emissions" from a NC stove, if you feel guilty about it, don't drive your diesel PU truck so much, it's a worse polluter than an NC wood stove. Turn your water heater temp down to use less coal fired electricity. Buy local produce to cut down on the transport pollution to get it from Mexico to wherever you are.
There are 100s of things you can do to more than make up for the pollution your NC (safer) stove puts out.... Which in the big picture of our industrial society, is probably an insignificant amount of pollution compared to all the other stuff we don't pay any attention to.
Like the methane gas coming off your typical hog factory farm, or the emissions from lawn mower/weed eater 4/2 stroke engines.
But to address your post, I'd be far more concerned about the condition and safety of my wood stove than about how many micro grams of smoke per hour it belches.
Because if you aint careful, that super efficient new stove gunking up your chimney is going to give off a lot of pollution when the creosote ignites and your chimney fire burns your house down.
As far as "higher emissions" from a NC stove, if you feel guilty about it, don't drive your diesel PU truck so much, it's a worse polluter than an NC wood stove. Turn your water heater temp down to use less coal fired electricity. Buy local produce to cut down on the transport pollution to get it from Mexico to wherever you are.
There are 100s of things you can do to more than make up for the pollution your NC (safer) stove puts out.... Which in the big picture of our industrial society, is probably an insignificant amount of pollution compared to all the other stuff we don't pay any attention to.
Like the methane gas coming off your typical hog factory farm, or the emissions from lawn mower/weed eater 4/2 stroke engines.
But to address your post, I'd be far more concerned about the condition and safety of my wood stove than about how many micro grams of smoke per hour it belches.
Because if you aint careful, that super efficient new stove gunking up your chimney is going to give off a lot of pollution when the creosote ignites and your chimney fire burns your house down.
Firestarter. I', not sure about what you mean by your last line. Are you saying the new EPA stoves will gunk up the stack? Larry
Anything will gunk up the chimney if run poorly. Even an out of tune oil furnace can do that. The object of a woodstove IS to remove heat from the smoke and burn it thoroughly. That's a good thing, especially when it puts that heat into the room. If the smoke has been thoroughly burned, there isn't much left to gunk up the pipe.
Larry, you've been burning for some years so I suspect you know the importance of burning dry wood and not choking down the fire too early. The orig. Resolute was the first new stove we purchased (well except for an Ashley tin can years before). We loved that stove. If you burned good dry wood and ran the stove at good operating temps, it kept the stack pretty clean.
That said, even though it had an early secondary combustion system, I suspect that it puts out about 5+ times the particulates that a modern stove does when it's up to temperature. Still, with the thermostatic damper and easy loading, if your Resolute is in top shape and doing its job well, it is going to be hard to replace without spending some serious cash. It's a solid, nice looking stove.
Here are some emissions tests you might enjoy reading:
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/chief/conference/ei16/session5/victor.pdf
Larry, you've been burning for some years so I suspect you know the importance of burning dry wood and not choking down the fire too early. The orig. Resolute was the first new stove we purchased (well except for an Ashley tin can years before). We loved that stove. If you burned good dry wood and ran the stove at good operating temps, it kept the stack pretty clean.
That said, even though it had an early secondary combustion system, I suspect that it puts out about 5+ times the particulates that a modern stove does when it's up to temperature. Still, with the thermostatic damper and easy loading, if your Resolute is in top shape and doing its job well, it is going to be hard to replace without spending some serious cash. It's a solid, nice looking stove.
Here are some emissions tests you might enjoy reading:
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/chief/conference/ei16/session5/victor.pdf
Thanks, I'm beginning to think the same thing, although it's always nice to buy a new rig! By the way, I'll be burning hardwood, black cherry, oak and maple, I split and stacked in the summer of 2008. Just now moving it into the shed. Never really have creosote problems. Thanks for the encouragement. By the way, I, too, used an Ashley Automatic for years before the Resolute. Relined it a couple of time. I still have it in the barn with mummified grey squirrel in it. Guess I should remove the squirrel! Thanks, Larry
I'd think with 5x the particulates, some of that is staying on the inside of your stack. My experience was you need to burn a lot more open than with an EPA stove, or pay the price in creosote. Nyquil, I know you burn with the bypass open, but a lot of heat is wasted to keep the flue clean. You can have the best of both worlds with a more modern secondary burn (cat or not): efficient heat transfer and a clean stack with low emissions. I get your point on emissions, a single stove is trivial to me when you look at it in relative terms, but my goals are simple: more heat, less wood, less creosote. Dry wood in an EPA stove is how I'm getting there. Not that an old Resolute is bad thing - if I had one in good shape, I'd keep it. That doesn't mean it's in the same league, though.
My old Ashley wasn't the cabinet model, it was literally a tin can, under $40 stove. Sides glowed nice and red at night.
of all the people I know with new "better" EPA clean stoves, when I see their pipes I wanna just scream. The last one I saw they were braggin on how great this new stove was and how little wood it used and the pipe was literally oozing creosote.
I guess alot of people get these stoves and dont, as you point out, burn them right. I dunno. I've always run either on a bypass or with stoves with no damper at all. All I ever see in my pipes is soot or ash.
And I understand thats because I'm running with the pipe wide open and hot enough to burn out the gunk.
I have yet personally to see anyone I know use a new wood stove and not have a thick black crust on everything in the stove and up the stack. I attributed that to the stove but I guess its possible, these people are all not burning the things right.
Which would not surprise me at all. Makes sense, really.
I have this newly found Itrepid2 with the cat in it, my first winter with a cat stove. I'll follow ya'll advice closely and see if it can be run cleanly and save me wood. I hope so. I'm not wood poor but I sure hate walking in wood all dang day.
I actually didnt want a cat stove but it was a good deal and winter is coming up om me fast so... I jumped.
I test burned it with the cat on, it does heat up hotter and the fire slows down nice. I guess I'm gonna learn a few things this winter.
Maybe all the wood burning people I know around me are special snowflakes who need a good wood stove education.
LOL
I just assumed it was the "new" stove designs.
I guess alot of people get these stoves and dont, as you point out, burn them right. I dunno. I've always run either on a bypass or with stoves with no damper at all. All I ever see in my pipes is soot or ash.
And I understand thats because I'm running with the pipe wide open and hot enough to burn out the gunk.
I have yet personally to see anyone I know use a new wood stove and not have a thick black crust on everything in the stove and up the stack. I attributed that to the stove but I guess its possible, these people are all not burning the things right.
Which would not surprise me at all. Makes sense, really.
I have this newly found Itrepid2 with the cat in it, my first winter with a cat stove. I'll follow ya'll advice closely and see if it can be run cleanly and save me wood. I hope so. I'm not wood poor but I sure hate walking in wood all dang day.
I actually didnt want a cat stove but it was a good deal and winter is coming up om me fast so... I jumped.
I test burned it with the cat on, it does heat up hotter and the fire slows down nice. I guess I'm gonna learn a few things this winter.
Maybe all the wood burning people I know around me are special snowflakes who need a good wood stove education.
LOL
I just assumed it was the "new" stove designs.
Hi Nyquil, I think EPA stoves are trickier than most people realize. I know for me, even after doing all my research and being very careful, I wasn't burning right at first. (Though maybe downdraft stoves are a bit tougher to master.) It's common practice to choke a stove down too much / too soon to get a longer burn and "save" wood. Being a cheap SOB I'm a repeat offender - I hate giving up any of my heat. So you are only going to get your clean, efficient, smoke-free burn if you get the stove up to proper temp with good wood. That has to be the biggest reason for creosote buildup, burning semi-seasoned or wet wood.
Another factor is venting. Most of these EPA stoves are designed to work best with a 6-inch pipe top to bottom, so if you're dumping into a large flue you can get problems, too. Even worse if it's an outside chimney, or has bad draft to start. Take a look at the whole system, not just the stove, at some of these friends' places. See what they are burning, how they are burning, and how they are venting. Lots of factors in addition to stove and operator, but yeah, a lot of people do need an education. I got mine here, and it's contagious. If I try not to be an obnoxious know-it-all when I give my friends helpful hints, they appreciate it (but it's a fine line!). One thing they'll never believe around here: you can burn dry pine... really!
Another factor is venting. Most of these EPA stoves are designed to work best with a 6-inch pipe top to bottom, so if you're dumping into a large flue you can get problems, too. Even worse if it's an outside chimney, or has bad draft to start. Take a look at the whole system, not just the stove, at some of these friends' places. See what they are burning, how they are burning, and how they are venting. Lots of factors in addition to stove and operator, but yeah, a lot of people do need an education. I got mine here, and it's contagious. If I try not to be an obnoxious know-it-all when I give my friends helpful hints, they appreciate it (but it's a fine line!). One thing they'll never believe around here: you can burn dry pine... really!
FWIW, I've burned about 30 cords of wood in the past decade or so. Most of this was softwood. Not a great deal by many folk's standard, but we have a mild climate. We burned for about 5 years in an old Jotul 602 and a few years in modern Jotuls and now in the T6. After repeatedly finding clean flues, I haven't cleaned a stack in quite awhile. I check it every season and the story is the same. When I pulled down the old stack during the 2006 remodel, it hadn't been cleaned in 8 years, yet there was no more than a cup of flakey soot in it.
Burn dry wood correctly with an interior chimney system and creosote accumulation should not be an issue. Burn damp or unseasoned wood in a cold outside flue and you can plug it up in a couple weeks.
Burn dry wood correctly with an interior chimney system and creosote accumulation should not be an issue. Burn damp or unseasoned wood in a cold outside flue and you can plug it up in a couple weeks.
Nyquil Junkie said:
we sweep a lot, hundreds, of new appliances every year, i am always (over 90%)impressed at how totally clean they are!
do you live in an area with only softwood to burn?
folks burn oak around here= clean(dust only) stacks
This is a hardwood area, most all wood you buy is oak, cherry, elm, maple. people get upset when they see some poplar or other odd wood in the load.
I burn chopped up pallets alot, which are mostly very hard wood, maple, oak, hickory, and pallet wood is kiln dried. I pick up good quality garbage to burn. LOL
I pick up lots of pine and poplar pallets and I get the talk from everyone "ya cant burn those pine pallets" well I do, and they burn hot and clean. (and quick).
Good point, nver took much notice of thier whole stack system, come to think of it most of them all vent into huge brickwork chimneys that never do get heated up right due to the mass and large flue size.
The only wood I cant stand to burn is sumac trees, they stink like burning tires. Blech.
I burn chopped up pallets alot, which are mostly very hard wood, maple, oak, hickory, and pallet wood is kiln dried. I pick up good quality garbage to burn. LOL
I pick up lots of pine and poplar pallets and I get the talk from everyone "ya cant burn those pine pallets" well I do, and they burn hot and clean. (and quick).
Good point, nver took much notice of thier whole stack system, come to think of it most of them all vent into huge brickwork chimneys that never do get heated up right due to the mass and large flue size.
The only wood I cant stand to burn is sumac trees, they stink like burning tires. Blech.
Wood Heat Stoves, you are evidently an industry professional, so I must ask: do you actually believe that softwood causes more creosote buildup than hardwood?
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