How many tons of pellets to order for a season?

[DexterDay]

5 lbs/hour for 50K btu is WAY inefficient

I must disagree with that statement.

Check the specs for most stoves and you will see why.

Example:

Avalon Astoria

BTUs Per Hr_Heat Setting___LBs/Hr
13,940 _______LOW_______1.7
45,100 _______HIGH_______5.5

The high setting for my 2,000 SqFt fairly well insulated house is only needed when it is -5 to -10 degrees F below Zero
or zero to 10 above and high wind speeds!

I use the low setting which is almost 14k BTUs per hour for very comfortable heat most of the time when it is 20 to 30 degrees F outside

The following chart is a guide for heating the whole house (Split Entry) with the stove installed in the center of the basement with 2 registers with a convection fan and a doorway fan in the doorway to the basement.
Pellet Stove Heat Setting, with the Air Restrictor on 2 and the Convection Fan on 6 (Highest)
Wind Speed +or-5 MPH
5 10 20
Outside Temp +or-5 Degrees
v v Astoria Heat Setting (1-6) Astoria Heat Setting (1-6) Astoria Heat Setting (1-6)
0 4 5 6
10 3 4 5
20 2 3 4
30 1 2 3

Example1: Early Saturday morning on 01-30-2010, The wind speed was 20 MPH and outside temperature was 4 degrees. the chart says 6 for the heat setting. At that time, we had it set to 5 when we were asleep and 6 when we woke up for more warmth and comfort!!

Example2:
02-07-2010 at 2 pm, the temperature was 27 degrees F, and the Wind Speed was 9 MPH. Therefore, the chart above puts the heat setting between 3 and 2 (slightly closer to 2) We have it set to 3 for comfort although 2 would be adequate!!

He did not mean your stove Don... He meant the US Stove, its rated at 50,000 and if I remember. You were the one who pointed out, that its minimum feed rate is 5 lbs an hour. He was not stating every 50,000 BTU stove. Mine is 47,500 also and its max is 5.5 lbs an hr. Both of our stoves "Are" efficient. The US Furnace in question is not.

 

[Don2222]

Hello

Well, I am not saying the 6500 is inefficient. What I am saying is that because it has a BTU range of 50,000 to 105,000 it is WAY OVERSIZED for a 1,700 SqFt home!!

It is just way to big for the Polish Prince's house!!

The Harman HydroFlex 60 Hot Air or Hot Water boiler that provides up to 60,000 BTU is much more compatible furnace for that size home!!

The hydroflex has no min lbs per hour so it can be sized correctly for this size house
Plus it can heat your hot water too!

I would still check with someone who has experience with this setup before seriously considering how it does actually work.

Specifications

Fuel: Bio-Mass Pellets
BTU Range: 0-60000
Heating Capacity: 2000+ Square Feet
Hopper Capacity: 160 Pounds
Flue Size: 3"
Outside Air Size: 2-3/8"
Weight: 525 Pounds
Depth: 33-1/4"
Minimum Floor Protection: 36.875" x 17.125"
Height: 57"
Width: 21-1/4"
Feed Rate: 0 to 7 pounds per hour

 

[DexterDay]

Hello

Well, I am not saying the 6500 is inefficient. What I am saying is that because it has a BTU range of 50,000 to 105,000 it is WAY OVERSIZED for a 1,700 SqFt home!!

It is just way to big for the Polish Prince's house!!

The Harman HydroFlex 60 Hot Air or Hot Water boiler that provides up to 60,000 BTU is much more compatible furnace for that size home!!

The hydroflex has no min lbs per hour so it can be sized correctly for this size house

Specifications

Fuel: Bio-Mass Pellets
BTU Range: 0-60000
Heating Capacity: 2000+ Square Feet
Hopper Capacity: 160 Pounds
Flue Size: 3"
Outside Air Size: 2-3/8"
Weight: 525 Pounds
Depth: 33-1/4"
Minimum Floor Protection: 36.875" x 17.125"
Height: 57"
Width: 21-1/4"
Feed Rate: 0 to 7 pounds per hour

I still agree with j-takeman. The exchange system is not right. For 3 bags on its lowest setting. Only heating above 70 degrees. 3 bags a Day should feel nuclear.. Even the owner agrees that it feeds to fast and that its "Wasting" Pellets. For 72 Degrees and a "Minimum" of 3 bags a day... That just sucks. In the shoulder's, I may not even burn a half a bag a day. If my stove was left on High (47,500 BTU's) this house would MELT. I use the lowest setting and keep 2,180 sq ft at 76 in the Dead of Winter. Only hit Med when its below 0* outside.. I have NEVER used more than 2 bags a day. Never. Just seems wasteful. IMO. US Stove used to be a Good co. Ask many dealers and you will find that many Mauf have went to the wayside. I know 2 dealers that do not like Breckwell anymore. Us Stove, AES (Magnum Line), just to name a few. Years ago (A decade) these stoves were "Top of the line". Now that the technology has passed them and the current owners do not want to put money into there investment, they are just "settling". Which in this economy. Many companies are doing it. Car Manuf are getting bad at it.. The "Bail-Out" was a joke.

I apologize to the OP and any US Stove owner who has a good one and has had great luck with it. K-Dog on here has one and loves it. They are out there.

Many companies sell out. But there are a few that go above and beyond. A thread was started not to long ago, talking about another stove Manuf. How there facility was amazing and the workers put forth the extra effort needed to make a Stove that will have a name in this market for YEARS to come.

I have a Fahrenheit Endurance Pellet Furnace that I am going to put up for sale this Fall. It is a Great Unit. Never had it Fully ducted in the basement. Have it in the garage now. Done a lot of testing out there. For only a 50,000 BTU Max Furnace, it KICKS out the heat. I paid $2,000 for it last Spring. With all Flue and Ductwork. It was only used for 1.5 seasons. Small in BTU;s. But more than makes up for it inefficiency. IMHO. Your stove could have an 100,000 BTU Input. But if it can only effectively Exchange 30,000 BTU of Output, then your throwing your heat out of your flue.

Which brings me to a great question. What is your vent set-up and how "HOT" is your flue gas when it comes out?

 

[Don2222]

Hello

Well, I am not saying the 6500 is inefficient. What I am saying is that because it has a BTU range of 50,000 to 105,000 it is WAY OVERSIZED for a 1,700 SqFt home!!

It is just way to big for the Polish Prince's house!!

The Harman HydroFlex 60 Hot Air or Hot Water boiler that provides up to 60,000 BTU is much more compatible furnace for that size home!!

The hydroflex has no min lbs per hour so it can be sized correctly for this size house

Specifications

Fuel: Bio-Mass Pellets
BTU Range: 0-60000
Heating Capacity: 2000+ Square Feet
Hopper Capacity: 160 Pounds
Flue Size: 3"
Outside Air Size: 2-3/8"
Weight: 525 Pounds
Depth: 33-1/4"
Minimum Floor Protection: 36.875" x 17.125"
Height: 57"
Width: 21-1/4"
Feed Rate: 0 to 7 pounds per hour

I still agree with j-takeman. The exchange system is not right. For 3 bags on its lowest setting. Only heating above 70 degrees. 3 bags a Day should feel nuclear.. Even the owner agrees that it feeds to fast and that its "Wasting" Pellets. For 72 Degrees and a "Minimum" of 3 bags a day... That just sucks. In the shoulder's, I may not even burn a half a bag a day. If my stove was left on High (47,500 BTU's) this house would MELT. I use the lowest setting and keep 2,180 sq ft at 76 in the Dead of Winter. Only hit Med when its below 0* outside.. I have NEVER used more than 2 bags a day. Never. Just seems wasteful. IMO. US Stove used to be a Good co. Ask many dealers and you will find that many Mauf have went to the wayside. I know 2 dealers that do not like Breckwell anymore. Us Stove, AES (Magnum Line), just to name a few. Years ago (A decade) these stoves were "Top of the line". Now that the technology has passed them and the current owners do not want to put money into there investment, they are just "settling". Which in this economy. Many companies are doing it. Car Manuf are getting bad at it.. The "Bail-Out" was a joke.

I apologize to the OP and any US Stove owner who has a good one and has had great luck with it. K-Dog on here has one and loves it. They are out there.

Many companies sell out. But there are a few that go above and beyond. A thread was started not to long ago, talking about another stove Manuf. How there facility was amazing and the workers put forth the extra effort needed to make a Stove that will have a name in this market for YEARS to come.

I have a Fahrenheit Endurance Pellet Furnace that I am going to put up for sale this Fall. It is a Great Unit. Never had it Fully ducted in the basement. Have it in the garage now. Done a lot of testing out there. For only a 50,000 BTU Max Furnace, it KICKS out the heat. I paid $2,000 for it last Spring. With all Flue and Ductwork. It was only used for 1.5 seasons. Small in BTU;s. But more than makes up for it inefficiency. IMHO. Your stove could have an 100,000 BTU Input. But if it can only effectively Exchange 30,000 BTU of Output, then your throwing your heat out of your flue.

Which brings me to a great question. What is your vent set-up and how "HOT" is your flue gas when it comes out?

Hi Dexter
Just curious why you are getting rid of your pellet furnace?
Do you have better control with 3 separate stoves?

 

[DexterDay]

Bought the furnace because we were looking at putting something in the basement for to help heat our daughters room. She was born this May, but one can never be to prepared.

I bought it, because I had read really good things about it. That, and the price was right.

Well a couple months later. A Forummember here posted his Englander 30-NC For Sale in the Articles For Sale section. I got the stove, and needed Simpson Flue (Internal/Double wall and External/ Triple wall), and all accesories, for $800. Being able to get wood for free and also having a Fireplace, really is what did it. Yes Cutting/Splitting/Stcking wood is Harder than going to a Hearth Shop (Or HD, Lowes, Menards, TSC), but it can be done for cheaper. Also wanted to try my hand at the Englander 30. Lots of talk about it in the "Hearth Room".

I bought that in the begining of April. So I have onlu used the Quad for 3 heating seasons. The Englander 25-PDV is in my Shop. Which is not in my house.

The Englander 30 is going to be installed in the end of Sept, begining of Oct. Fill you in more then. But for the last 3 yrs. Me and the Quad.

So the Fahrenheit has to go. Cant have 4 woodburning items in my hoouse (30, CB 1200, and Fireplace)

 

[sinnian]

5 lbs/hour for 50K btu is WAY inefficient

I must disagree with that statement.

My statement was based on my experience with my pellet boiler in which I burn, on average, 3 pounds per hour for 85K btus heating a 2200 sq ft home.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

5 lbs/hour for 50K btu is WAY inefficient

I must disagree with that statement.

My statement was based on my experience with my pellet boiler in which I burn, on average, 3 pounds per hour for 85K btus heating a 2200 sq ft home.

Unless you have one of them fancy nuclear pellet burners or magic pellets you are not getting 85,000 BTUs on 3 pounds of pellets in one hour. Just ain't happening.

 

[sinnian]

Meant up to 85K (and of course not on 3 lbs/hour).

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Now the question becomes one of where did the heat produced go when Polish Princess was burning the 5 pounds an hour.

Another question that spring to mind is what is the heat loss of the building that Polish Princess is heating.

I can't remember what all of the controls are on that unit maybe a bit later I'll see if I can find the manual. But I seem to remember that the control board can actually be programed for different fuel loads than what is preprogrammed from the factory.

It is possible that a lot of the heat is going up the flue or is being stuck in the room with the furnace.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I haven't found all of the information on that unit yet but what I have found indicates that there is an optional thermostat (this must cycle the unit in a high/low fashion because that furnace is manual light).

On top of that it is possible to send a lot of the heat up the flue if it is operated in what they are calling manual mode if you have the damper open too much as the combustion fan runs full out and you must play with the damper.

Somewhere there was information on fuel feed rates and USSC controllers.

Over on iburncorn.com in the OLD FORUM section is information on the USSC controllers some of it is hard to read.

 

[Vinelife]

I usually use around 5 tons. Sole heating in winter is pellets from Oct-Mid May. All Somersets this year.. nice and warm and even burning.

 

[AVIVIII]

I might have missed in in the bickering about input and output BTUh vs. LB/hr,

But I dont think any has given the obvious PIG response to the OP's question yet....

As many as you can possibly fit in your house/garage, with absolutely no regard to aesthetics, ability to use the space as originally intended, wife's complaints, children's college funds and passenger vehicle's suspension.

 

[Harman-p68a]

I just stacked 4 ton of Currans blend hopefully that will get me through with some fuel oil also.last season I used 3 ton of currans super premium softwood and about 1 to 1.5 ton of various other shoulder pellets. Would have lover to be able to have gotten softwoods again but no one around here wants softwood the old hardwood stigma but we will see how the blends do hopefully 4 ton will do it along with some oil not going to have time for chasing pellets with a newborn in the house this winter............+..

 

[Don2222]

I haven't found all of the information on that unit yet but what I have found indicates that there is an optional thermostat (this must cycle the unit in a high/low fashion because that furnace is manual light).

On top of that it is possible to send a lot of the heat up the flue if it is operated in what they are calling manual mode if you have the damper open too much as the combustion fan runs full out and you must play with the damper.

Somewhere there was information on fuel feed rates and USSC controllers.

Over on iburncorn.com in the OLD FORUM section is information on the USSC controllers some of it is hard to read.

Hi Smokey

Where the 6500 is running manually on Low and is using 3 lbs per day, adding a thermostat to cycle the furnace to high would only use more pellets per day! Not a good option here. Sounds like 3 bags a day on low is the best with that equipment unless there is any more newer efficient control boards

See pic below of my new Pharox Orange Fire Glow LED stove light for that summer time Ambiance

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I haven't found all of the information on that unit yet but what I have found indicates that there is an optional thermostat (this must cycle the unit in a high/low fashion because that furnace is manual light).

On top of that it is possible to send a lot of the heat up the flue if it is operated in what they are calling manual mode if you have the damper open too much as the combustion fan runs full out and you must play with the damper.

Somewhere there was information on fuel feed rates and USSC controllers.

Over on iburncorn.com in the OLD FORUM section is information on the USSC controllers some of it is hard to read.

Hi Smokey

Where the 6500 is running manually on Low and is using 3 lbs per day, adding a thermostat to cycle the furnace to high would only use more pellets per day! Not a good option here. Sounds like 3 bags a day on low is the best with that equipment unless there is any more newer efficient control boards

See pic below of my new Pharox Orange Fire Glow LED stove light for that summer time Ambiance

Don,

If I can find it I believe that the controller can be dropped below the 5 pounds hour feed rate it is also possible that when the optional thermostat is used there is another lower low firing rate. The manual is next to useless as it talks about thermostatic operation but there is no further information and the device is manual start and only doesn't appear to have a hookup for a thermostat. Funny that? We know it isn't on/off so if the thing is going to be controlled by a stat there must be a way of throttling it down if the feed is set to 1. Usually in high/low operation the high setting is set by the firing rate control setting and the low is the controller's lowest setting (which frequently can be trimmed to less than firing rate 1.

There is insufficient information to determine all of the operating modes of the furnace (there were multiple controllers used on the 6500) and since it seems that US Stove isn't stepping up to the plate (or at least that is the impression given) we may never know.

My memory sometimes gets things twisted different controller but the same device but ISTR reading about just how adjustable the USSC controllers actually are. It wasn't on here and it wasn't in the USSC manual for the 6500.

Whether the heat is being wasted or the OP is burning too much or not once again there is not enough information. It is possible to have a nice small place and consume a lot of fuel to keep it somewhat tolerable.

 

[Polish Princess]

I talked to tech support at US STOVE yesterday and expressed my disappointment in burning 3 bags per day. They walked me through how to lower the auger speed manually.
Tech Support walked me through the steps to adjust the pellet rate. The Model 6500 is preset to burn 6.50 lbs per hour. I did the math and 6.50 X 24 hrs=156 lbs/40lbs=3.90 bags.


Steps to adjust
• Press ON button
• Press Heat Range and Aux button at same time----Should say 6.50 which means is set to burn 6.50 lbs per hour —
• Press the AUX DOWN button to
4.50 lbs per hour. If still too fast and too much waste in burn pot----LOWER again by .50 until reach desired amount of distribution.

I am going to try this. Also purchased I think a better grade of pellets.

Maybe this will help someone else. Also in reading the thread someone mentioned adjusting the damper is that correct?

 

[jtakeman]

Thanks for sharing that info! I am sure it will help other USSC owners.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I talked to tech support at US STOVE yesterday and expressed my disappointment in burning 3 bags per day. They walked me through how to lower the auger speed manually.
Tech Support walked me through the steps to adjust the pellet rate. The Model 6500 is preset to burn 6.50 lbs per hour. I did the math and 6.50 X 24 hrs=156 lbs/40lbs=3.90 bags.


Steps to adjust
• Press ON button
• Press Heat Range and Aux button at same time----Should say 6.50 which means is set to burn 6.50 lbs per hour —
• Press the AUX DOWN button to
4.50 lbs per hour. If still too fast and too much waste in burn pot----LOWER again by .50 until reach desired amount of distribution.

I am going to try this. Also purchased I think a better grade of pellets.

Maybe this will help someone else. Also in reading the thread someone mentioned adjusting the damper is that correct?

If the stove is going to be used in manual mode you have to use the damper as the combustion fan will run full speed, in automatic mode it runs in lock step with the feed rate. The run mode is not related to the feed rates.

I'm glad you got some help from USSC I was fairly certain the actual feed rates could be changed.

Did you also inquire about thermostatic operation?

 

[VanderLaan]

IAlso purchased I think a better grade of pellets.

Hope your solution works out for you. I am up here in Springfield. Care to share the details (cost/brand/location)?

 

[Polish Princess]

Smoky The Bear I did not ask about thermostat but notice in my manual it says optional thermostats. I have said all along there should be a thermostat to turn the blowers on and off. I'm thinking like a gas or an electric furnace turns on and off. I am I correct in my thinking or does a thermostat on a pellet furnace have a different function.

Also, I don't know what you mean lock step and feed rate.

 

[Polish Princess]

We have a US Stove Model 6500 purchased at end of last season floor model started at $4999.99 . Thenwas discounted to $2999.99. I kept watching the price found one on display at a Tractor Supply .Tractor Supply would not match the online price of $1999.99 so I contacted Rural Supply in Litchfield and they didn't have any left so they called the Vandalia Rural King.The Vandalia Rural King had a BRAND NEW end of season floor model for $1499.99 so we bought it last April. Of course that is only the furnace not flu piping or installation. But from $5k to $1.5K feel we did okay.

We are now trying to tweak it and slow down our burn rate from 3 bags per day to the normal 1-2 bags. We love the feel of burning wood and the warmth of it.
The reason we went with US Stove was because we had a wood burning US Stove for 20 years before going to pellet last season. Until I happened to find this sight I had no idea the different types of pellet furnaces but have also learned in our area it is very difficult to find someone that sells pellet furnaces other than the box stores or find someone that can service them. Also, the pellets the other people out East talk about burning we cannot purchase in our area.

We live 45 minutes South of Springfield, IL

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Smoky The Bear I did not ask about thermostat but notice in my manual it says optional thermostats. I have said all along there should be a thermostat to turn the blowers on and off. I'm thinking like a gas or an electric furnace turns on and off. I am I correct in my thinking or does a thermostat on a pellet furnace have a different function.

Also, I don't know what you mean lock step and feed rate.

Thermostat operation of a pellet stove is usually in one of two modes.

One is called on/off in this mode the thermostat controls the starting and stopping of the fire in the stove. Your 6500 doesn't have an igniter so that mode can't be the one.

The second mode is called high/low and usually operates in low or maintain fire mode when the thermostat isn't calling for heat and in the selected firing rate (or high) when the thermostat is calling for heat. Your 6500 is likely to be able to operate in that mode if what the manaul says about it being controllable by a thermostat.

The 6500 can run in two modes of operation one of these modes is automatic, in this mode the convection (room) blower and the combustion blower operate together and vary according to the firing rate selected. In manual mode the combustion blower runs at full speed and the convection blower is tied to the firing rate.

In manual mode you must adjust the burn air using the damper otherwise the burn pot can run out of fuel and the fire go out, in automatic mode you pull the damper wide open and the blower controls the combustion air.

 

[Polish Princess]

SmokeyTheBear

I talked to US Stove about a thermostat. They have one I can purchase and said to install it behind the circuit board. Of course when they talk to me they make is sound very easy to install. Also, either they have had complaints about not helping customers or they are slower this time of year but they have been very helpful.

If I have this straight to help me with my original problem of burning 3.09 bags of pellets per day

1) Need to install a thermostat 2)Adjust pellet from US Stove preset rate of 6.50 lbs per hour to 4.50 lbs per hour. 3)Adjust damper to keep fire going---Does that sound about right?

With the furnace in manual mode you said the combustion blower runs full speed, does the convection blower shut off and on?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

SmokeyTheBear

I talked to US Stove about a thermostat. They have one I can purchase and said to install it behind the circuit board. Of course when they talk to me they make is sound very easy to install. Also, either they have had complaints about not helping customers or they are slower this time of year but they have been very helpful.

If I have this straight to help me with my original problem of burning 3.09 bags of pellets per day

1) Need to install a thermostat 2)Adjust pellet from US Stove preset rate of 6.50 lbs per hour to 4.50 lbs per hour. 3)Adjust damper to keep fire going---Does that sound about right?

With the furnace in manual mode you said the combustion blower runs full speed, does the convection blower shut off and on?

If you run the stove in manual mode the convection blower runs at the rate set by firing rate of the stove this is also true when running in automatic mode. It doesn't cycle in either mode unless there is a thermostat hooked up.

The only time you should need to operate the damper is to have it fully open when running in automatic mode(combustion blower follows firing rate) or adjusted to keep a proper flame in manual mode( combustion blower runs at full speed). In manual mode there will be different damper settings for each firing rate.

I don't have any real information on how the stove actually operates when the thermostat board is installed.

Personally I can't see anyone running a furnace without a thermostat but I guess that is just me.

As for the actual firing rate you finally get the low end set to, I suspect it will take some trial and error. If memory serves the high rate is also adjustable as well.

So far my memory hasn't failed me on this unit but it could.

 

[Polish Princess]

Okay here I am again with questions about adjusting our US Stove Model 6500. Adjusted the feed rate as the tech from US Stove said to do

Steps to adjust
• Press ON button
• Press Heat Range and Aux button at same time——Should say 6.50 which means is set to burn 6.50 lbs per hour —
• Press the AUX DOWN button to
4.50 lbs per hour. If still too fast and too much waste in burn pot——LOWER again by .50 until reach desired amount of distribution.

When I adjusted per the instructions above, my furnace did not say 6.50 it said 7.36 so I lowered to 4.50 and it did slow down the rate of pellets fed into the burn box but now I have a new problem.

Lots of unburned pellets around the burn box, they look like I opened a bag of pellets and threw them in there instead of the hopper no scorch or burn on them at all. They just seem to bounce out. We are sure we are on the right track because had very little ash.
We burned from yesterday at 5 pm until this morning at 8 am and only used about 1/2 bag (far cry from burning 3.09 bags per day last winter) Just wanted to knock the chill off as was 45 degrees outside and 70 degrees inside. Was very comfortable.