I hate my MT VERNON

[aniliz]

if anyone can help me to like it i'd be so happy
we had the quadrafire mt vernon ae installed 2 weeks ago. we replaced our hearthstone mansfield with it largely because of the decreased labor associated with pellet stoves. My husband and i both work too much and now have a kid and i thought i'd like to have less vacuuming and stacking time and more play time with the kid. WHich has happened- but we're freezing while we play!

I have a 2000 sq ft relatively drafty farmhouse but unless you are within 3 feet of this stove you don't feel it- so different then the soapstone wood.

The other problem iam having is a horrible clicking noise in the fan when the stove is trying to get to a significantly higher temperature (say 5 degrees higher then where it's at) so every morning at 5:35 it starts making this god awful noise becuase that's whne i have it programmed to go from 62 to 68.

I've had the guys from the dealer come out once and they couldnt figure it out, and i couldnt' figure out how to make the stove make the noise. Now i know how to do it so when they come back hopefully they'll figure it out. But because they are short staffed it could be awhile. In the meantime i am hoping someone here can help me.

THanks so much
anja

 

[webbie]

Can't help with the noise, but as far as the heat, two things:
1. It would be a tough job for a Pellet Stove to match the output of a Mansfield
2. To do so, you would have to burn a lot of Pellets.....

so, approx how many pellets are you burning? My guess is that you would need 40,000 BTU or so input (at least) to heat most of that house during this weather. Maybe more.

That would be 5+ lbs per hour of pellets, or 3 bags in 24 hours. Is that what you are using?

 

[moralleper]

I also would not have my set back at night quite so much. I tried what you have a while and it just seemed the stove took for ever to heat the house in the morning. I have my thermostat set like the following and have had good success with it.

4AM - 66
6AM - 68
6PM - 69
10PM - 64

My quad make a clicking noise when it starts up because it is heating up and metal is expanded but it is not really that noticeable.

 

[aniliz]

thank you for your responses,
i will try the reccomendations for the thermostat setting and see what happens.
we are not burning nearly that many pellets, mainly because when the stove finally gets to the mid 70's it starts to make the noise, so maybe once the noise is fixed we'll be better off.
i knew the heat would not be the same as the mansfield, the soapstone really is lovely, but i didn't think it would be this different. i wish i had asked before and not just gone on the numbers listed in the folders saying it would heat over 2500sq ft. and have 60000 BTU's.
live and learn
anja

 

[Eric Johnson]

Any new stove, boiler or furnace I've ever owned took some time to figure out. It's frustrating, even when you know that full well going in. I'm sure you'll see some improvement as you use it.

 

[jtp10181]

You said your house was old and drafty? The specs for the units heating capacity is for a well insulated home, so you can toss that out the window for your house.

Ok... since you JUST got this thing I assume it you have the new "AE" model?

The clicking noise... is it possibly just metal expansion as someone else suggested? Otherwise it is possibly the combustion blower. Does it only do it on Heat out put 5? Try putting the stat on manual mode and set the heat output to level 5. See if that reproduces the noise. Does the noise start before or after the convection blower kicks in?

I have a feeling it is the combustion blower, you should check the label on your stove for the MFG date, that would help me as well. You might want to suggest the dealer brings a new combustion blower with them when they come back.

 

[BIGISLANDHIKERS]

We have a mt vernon and it heats very well. We used to have wood stove and yes it a little different. We don't have to open the windows like we used to with the wood stove but the heat is very consistant and steady.

When you have the clicking noise open the hopper door on the top and see if it stops. If it does then it is your auger. The auger shuts off when this door is opened.

Do you know what board # you have? It would help to know when the stove was manufactured. This date is located on the back of stove.

This stove puts out a ton of heat when it is running right.

BIH

 

[aniliz]

thank you so much for all of your replies
i am not at home so i can't get the numbers off the back, but answers to your other questions:
i can get the stove to make the noise when it's on manual 5 or on auto MH- pretty much any time i ask it to increase it's temp by more than 4 degrees.
i finally spoke to the dealer yesterday and he things its the combustion fan too so will be bringing a spare with him- hopefullytoday.
i'll keep you all posted and thanks again. its great to know that they normally put out a lot of heat- it gives me hope that once we get this fixed it will be a lot better.
anja

 

[jtp10181]

Yeah its definitely the comb blower. I had a customer with this problem not too long ago. He knew what he was doing so I didn't even bother testing it. Just put the new comb fan on. After we tried to start it I thought it was broken, I couldn't hear a damned thing. When I put my ear right up next to the comb blower then I could hear the airflow, silent. Amazing.

 

[aniliz]

thanks for your responses,
unfortunately the guy who came yesterday left without writing a note to let me know what was going on and is not at work today.
even worse is that i could not get the noise to happen when he was here
the only thing that was different was that the stove had been on all day at about 68 degrees which is significantly warmer than i usually run it during the day. of course when i got back the stove had been off for an hour (while the guy was supposed to fix it) and as soon as i turned on the stove it made the clicking noise.....i was so frustrated i video taped it so next time someone comes down to look at it i can at least show them this....

i have a question about the lack of heat output-
could this be because the chimney is drawing TOO Much?
they installed a 4 inch pipe that goes to the wall and connects to the outside 6 inch pipe that is our chimney from the woodstove and goes up to the roof. They said they did not need to run the 4 inch all the way up to the top because there was a clean out in the chimney. I hope this makes sense to someone b/c it makes little to me.
One reason i ask about too much draw is that when the stove is on there is an incredible draft across the floor caused by the stove sucking in so much air. I am thinkng maybe the heat is just getting sucked out the chimney too?

WOw-
lots of things for you to read,
i can't tell you how appreciative i am of your time and expertise.
for now ive shut down the pellet because i feel like iam wasting money burning the pellets and have turned on the oil furnance. COsts a lot more but at least we're warm now.

Thanks again,
anja

 

[jtp10181]

You said your house was old and drafty? The specs for the units heating capacity is for a well insulated home, so you can toss that out the window for your house.

We have a Mt Vernon AE in our showroom, trust me, it cranks out the heat once it gets ripping. We have a 3" chimney about 20ft vertical. With the 6" chimney you will actually get a worse draw then with a 4" liner all the way up.

Maybe an outside air kit would help you? Is the stove near an outside wall where this would be an option?

 

[aniliz]

hi pyro-ext!
the outside airkit isn't an option because the stove is against the wrap around porch wall so it isnt an outside wall.
you said the one you have in the showroom is hot once it gets going- how long does that take? I am wondering since i have to shut it down everytime the clicking noise happens that that is why it's never really gotten hot. Should the stove itself be hot to touch?
thanks
anja

 

[jtp10181]

The stove itself doesn't get too hot but the air blowing out gets very hot. It probably takes a good 30 mins for it to get into its normal burn cycle.

 

[aniliz]

hmm, well it was definitly on for hours at a time so i guess thats not within normal for start up time is it?

any other ideas about why it wouldnt generate heat well?

thanks
anja

 

[BIGISLANDHIKERS]

I use a themometer to measure the AIR coming out. I generally run between 200 deg to 300 deg depending on which level I am running. The front metal of my stove is very hot...cant touch but for a fast second. I have never measured the temp of the metal. When I run on high I can feel the fan in my face from about 8 feet away or more.


I have it in my 1550 sq foot finished basement and I am running it on ML and it keeps it at about 72 deg. the upstairs stays about 65. The weather outside is in the upper teens low 20s.

good luck

BIH

 

[jtp10181]

hmm, well it was definitly on for hours at a time so i guess thats not within normal for start up time is it?

any other ideas about why it wouldnt generate heat well?

thanks
anja

Yes, I already stated it twice. You said your house is old and drafty. The estimated heating capacity for the stove is based on a well insulated house.

 

[aniliz]

sorry that you had to repeat yourself-
i don't think iam doing a good job explaining whats going on here-
yes my house is a bit drafty so i wouldn't expect it to generate heat as it would in a show room, or in a well insulated house.
BUT it should be able to get the room that it is in above 65 degrees, and it is unable to do this. And the room that it is in is surrounded on 2 sides by a glassed in porch and on the other 2 sides by smaller rooms, that is why i am sure it should be able to get about 65 degrees after being on for 24 hours.

the quadrafire guy is supposed to be here next thursday, the local people have tried again to figure out both the noise and the lack of heat generation and have not been able to get it.

Hopefully the quad. guy will have the answer.
anja

 

[Deed]

I'm also new to this Pellet thing, I have a new Mt Vernon it heats really well in the hugh open space I have it in. This space is surrounded by windows, no problem heating this space. i don't have any draft problems. I will be interested to hear what he thinks it is.

 

[stoveguy13]

the noise is being caused from a bad air to fuel mix. is there a plate behind were you pull out the ash pan? second what is the flame height set at and what fuel setting are you running on? please unplug the stove and tell me what version the thermostat is. sorry i miss read the first time thought the noise was the old rumbel sound that it was making. the clicking may be a misalinment on the blower or it cloud be just a bad blower the blower is held in with bolts and does have some play. may want to take off the side panel and take a look to see if they are all tight and the blower is sitting square in the housing.

 

[brwolfe]

I just had a Quadrafire Mt. Vernon installed on Friday the 28th.

Install technician told me not to run it for 24 hours for the high temp caulk to dry, so I waited till Saturday afternoon, the 29th to really run it.

By that evening the Combustion fan was making a loud ticking noise, hitting what sounded like the side of its housing. I took the right cast iron side off and pushed against the combustion motor housing and I could make the noise come and go.

So I turned the stove heat parameters down as much as I could and the noise eventually went away, then I called the dealer I bought it from and left a message.

Last night, a different noise was occuring, it sounded like more of a plastic sound. It was coming from the left side of the unit.
I put the unit into shutdown and the noise stopped when the blower fan into the room stopped.

I let the unit rest for a bit and started it back up. As soon as it got hot enough to turn on the blower, the noise returned.

After going half the day, I called the dealer again this morning the 31st.
All he can do is fax a piece of paper to what-ever service headquarters they have and some one will call me.

I am very not happy right now.

 

[webbie]

OK, it's time to share what I told my Whitfield Factory Rep 14 years ago:
"If Airplanes were like Pellet Stoves, they would be falling out of the Sky every day!".....

I got pissed at him when it turned out that 100% of control boards were defective, and when he finally admitted it he said the factory told him to keep it hush-hush and to only replace those particular ones that a dealer REALLY complained about. I was more than a bit upset......

You will often hear Pellet stove makers and dealers say the reason for the problems is the complexity....but I don't buy that at all. The reason for the problems is lack of QC. A Pellet stove is really a simple device compared to a car or even my gas central heating system (3 zones, AC, Humidifier, etc.).

We are now in the middle of what I might call the "2nd Pellet Stove ramp-up", the first one having died back around 1996 due to a number of factors including problems with the stoves. The word on the street says "the new generation is much improved", and I try to agree but at the same time, this is the same thing we were told about the last generation. They told us the last generation were 80% + efficient, then some field tests showed them to be from 50-75.

Although I admit a certain bias, I was always impressed with how Travis Industries made certain that their stoves would be reasonably reliable before they released them....even though this meant they lost many millions in sales by being one of the later entries in the marketplace. Maybe it means something that we see VERY few problems with their units here on the Forum, while they remain one of the largest manufacturers ....

In the end it costs everyone (dealer, manufacturer and customer) more when pellet stoves have a high "incidence" rate. Yet dealers in the field still tell me this is occurring. For the sake of the entire industry, I certainly hope that the makers can make these things more reliable - AND - even if not, that they improve their service and support to help folks as quickly as possible when things do go wrong.

 

[begreen]

There's no excuse for this. Pellet stoves are no more complex than the average gas or oil furnace. They share many of the same controls.

Personally, I've gotten in the habit of withholding full payment for big installations for a few days and if possible paying with my MasterCard. If satisfaction is not there, I will cancel the sale. This is nothing but a poor dealer response. If they are not trained to fix the unit (probably a packing cardboard left in) then they should not be in the business. And with a complaint like this they should be out to check it. What would they expect by not testing the stove with a new installation?

 

[brwolfe]

Well, after some delay of how it was going to get installed (high chimney, 37') and yes it's in stock and no it's not in stock, wait another two weeks, the dealer finally came around and delivered it. Unfortunately, the installer is an independent contractor that only installs them for this dealer. Is it the installers fault it's causing me issues, don't know, unless it's installed crooked and twisted to hell and that may be causing the fan blades and housings not to live in harmony.

But the short few hours I played with the features of this stove as far as flame height, heat output and fan speed, it all responded the way I thought it should. I love the thermostat and it's ease of use. I also love how it cranks heat when it works.

The unit was tested for 20 minutes at most by the installer because he said he would like all the heat caulk to dry for 24 hours. He uses high-temp caulk on all the joints from the blower to the outside.

And the manufacturer is not going to burn in every stove they produce after it's fully assembled. You would be getting a burned in mess, but after 24 hours, it looks that way in my home any way. But I would expect the blowers and all other component parts to be sporadically pulled off the line and put to the real quality test.

Am I expecting to much for almost $4,000?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

we actually do pull random units off the line and burn test them, usually one every day or two. (not that this helps our poster)

a unit should be at least "dry run" or have its components tested on site before the unit is even hooked up , this makes a "quick fix" like a rubbing fan blade (which is extremely easy to fix by a tech familiar with his product line) or a loose connection , or whatever before setting the unit and having to deal with closer clearances and wet caulk. having said that , a customer who buys through a servicing dealer PAID for that dealers service when he bought the unit , and that side of the deal should be honored, and with a brand new installation , honored quickly.

just my 2 cents

 

[webbie]

But I would expect the blowers and all other component parts to be sporadically pulled off the line and put to the real quality test.

Am I expecting to much for almost $4,000?

I linked to this once before, but Travis gives each and every blower a number of tests...including the "human listening carefully to it" test BEFORE it even gets near the assembly line. Would they do this if the blowers being supplied were up to spec? no way.....they are not in business to waste time. Obviously, the blower manufacturers are shipping some chit - of course there is more to it than just that. The blowers must be installed in such a way that they do not exceed their temp ratings, etc.

Here is the link to those travis pics. There are a couple people full time listening to and sealing blowers:
https://www.hearth.com/visit/travistrip/source/170sealmotors.html
and the next pic after that.