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Insert Thoughts / Suggestions

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by schlemoc, May 3, 2013.

  1. schlemoc

    schlemoc New Member

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    I stumbled on this form from one of the others that I frequent, due to the vast knowledge available. Due to my crazy work schedule, I have not had a chance to make it to any fireplace dealers, and my largest project this year is to purchase an insert for the existing open hearth fireplace. I really like the idea of being able to watch the fire burn, but I also grew up on a woodstove, not a fireplace. I was reading about hearth stoves, and the idea really interests me. I doubt I have the depth to put a hearth stove in, so I'm thinking if I can find an insert that protrudes some with a cook top and glass front I would be very happy. A friend strongly suggested the Quadra 5001i, as that is what his dad and him have. I grew up on a cast iron, and my father recently upgraded to the Mansfield soapstone. He commented a lot on the soapstone absorbing the heat and it then releasing it over time.

    Below are my dimensions. I was hoping some seasoned individuals on here may be able to get me some models to start looking at in terms of options since this is all new to me. I'm heating an 1800 sq ft old farm house with the hearth in the middle of the house in the basement. I've also attached two photos for reference. Hopefully that covers all the basics.

    Front opening: 33" wide by 28" tall
    Rear opening" 27.5" wide by 28" tall
    Depth: 23.5" deep for 14" from base then sloping in to 18" depth
    Damper: 28" x 4" at very top (this is very old and is basically a plate that pivots erratically)
    Hearth: protrudes 19" out past the hearth

    Oh... I also read all the, whichever fits and whatever you like responses for similar posts, so I am aware of those answers.

    Attached Files:

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  2. Ram 1500 with an axe...

    Ram 1500 with an axe... Minister of Fire

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    Well I have the montpelier that you can see in my avatar and I love it, good luck
  3. Ram 1500 with an axe...

    Ram 1500 with an axe... Minister of Fire

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    Also, you are gonna have to do your own homework on what will fit and won't fit...good luck
  4. Bster13

    Bster13 Minister of Fire

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    Even my Blaze King Princess Insert (install pics in my sig) protrudes 10 inches from my mason fireplace, would not allow cooking on top and I have a 20in hearth extending from it. I don't think you could find an insert you could cook off of that would still be within hearth specs. I think the minimum hearth is 18in from the farthest sticking out part of the insert. In my situation I am buying a hearth pad to get me within spec.

    Would you regularly cook on top or only in emergency? If the later, buy a Coleman multi-fuel stove and call it day.

    GL!
  5. schlemoc

    schlemoc New Member

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    I would occasionally cook on it in he winter. I always grew up on with the "homesteading" type of mentality of minimizing costs and maximizing what you are already using. The basement room is a fair size, so I may be able to do a hearth extension. I'm starting my homework now, because I'm really thinking this will be a large project.

    What's the thoughts of using the free standing hearth style fireplace? Those seem to have cook tops, but I don't think they have the same aesthetic value for watching the fire.
  6. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    The Woodstock Progress hybrid (soapstone stove) would fit in there and it has a cooktop lid.

    How will the heat get upstairs? Is there a large open stair nearby?
  7. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

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    Ugh, I see an uninsulated wall right next to it, that is going to suck up a good amount of the heat from whatever you choose to burn with.
  8. schlemoc

    schlemoc New Member

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    This is an older house that I presume was primarily heated with wood based on the layout. The fireplace is in the basement with the stairs right next to it. A couple vents added in will permit the heat to easily rise up through the floor, in addition to opening the basement door.

    Mellow - That is not an uninsulated wall. It's actually a corner unit, and the prior owner built it out to sit there. It's an interesting layout. The basement walls are not actually showin in the photo, but they are concrete block, and will be framed and insulated accordingly. The hearth/chimney area still needs finished...

    I really like the looks of that Progress stove. I am trying to talk my wife in to a stove. She likes the inserts more, in particular, the Hearthstone "Clydesdale" insert.

    Are soapstone stoves really worth the extra cash? I understand they tend to be more of a steady heat source instead of the "blast" type that heats up quickly and can cool off quickly.

    Thanks for the input everyone! I greatly appreciate it!
  9. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

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    Plenty tall to slide the Progress with rear vent up to the fireplace, short leg kit might give you more room to work with but no ash tray if that matters.

    If you will be in the room a lot then the soft heat from the soapstone would be good.

    If you don't mind a blower going all the time you have quite a few inserts to choose from, if looks is not a concern and you are looking for a heater then the Blaze King Princess would give you long burn times.
    schlemoc likes this.
  10. schlemoc

    schlemoc New Member

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    I don't plan on being in the room a lot currently. However, in the future I want to refinish the basement and make it more of a "man cave". I have too much other projects in terms of landscaping / renovating before I can even begin to think that whole project through.

    Thanks for the great thoughts Mellow!
  11. schlemoc

    schlemoc New Member

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    I spoke to a couple places by phone today since we were slow. I really like the options of the Clydesdale Hearthstone fire place and the Voyageur Grand Quadra Fire. Any thoughts on these particular models? The one rep said that soapstone requires a lot of cleaning and maintenance. He was trying to steer me to the Quadra Fire, but this may be due to him not carrying soap stone models. All input has be wonderful!
  12. Bster13

    Bster13 Minister of Fire

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    I can't comment on the soapstone and how much of a benefit it is. My BK Princess insert can go low and slow, but perhaps the soapstone stuff can radiant even slower?
  13. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    The sales person was blowing smoke, but the Clydesdale is a respectable insert.
  14. schlemoc

    schlemoc New Member

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    I was pretty sure that the salesperson was blowing smoke. I think I'm going to have to speak to a shop that does both stoves.
  15. schlemoc

    schlemoc New Member

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    So I have done some more research and spoke to a couple individuals on the board / online who have the clydesdale. I feel pretty secure with that as a purchase. I was speaking to the rep today, who suggested I get the quote run now since prices tend to increase mid May for Hearthstone Stoves. I was thinking of waiting until I saw the company put out some type of coupon. However, I hear that approach can be fairly unreliable. I don't need the insert installed until this fall, so I do have some time. Any opinions on the timing issue? Obviously I want to get the best deal, as I don't have a considerable amount to spare after this purchase.
  16. Ram 1500 with an axe...

    Ram 1500 with an axe... Minister of Fire

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    I shopped 4 different VC dealers in my area and I got 3 different prices
  17. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Just like anything you buy, figure a reasonable price you are willing to pay for the stove and make an offer. Not a silly low ball but what you are ready to write a check for if they say "OK".

    On the Clyde the soapstone is the firebrick in the stove. No cleaning issue.
    OldLumberKid likes this.
  18. schlemoc

    schlemoc New Member

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    The only issue with that is that there are only 2 Hearthstone dealers, and only one does their own install. I was suggested by a few people to make sure I deal with the company that offers the install so they can fully warrant it. However, I guess that does not stop me from getting other quotes on an install?
  19. Ram 1500 with an axe...

    Ram 1500 with an axe... Minister of Fire

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    Well I had my handy man install it and I saved a lot of money on that end, I was on the ladder helping him, it wasn't pretty but in the end it worked out, it was tough getting it down but he was able to do it at quite a substantial savings for me, so I am not complaining and I just went through a few months of many fires safely thank God, and now looking for a splitter....
  20. 6mmbrer

    6mmbrer New Member

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    I have a Clydesdale with the surround. It really isn't a cooking stove, more for looks and heat. It protrudes about four inches from the face of the existing fireplace. That's all the shelf area you have. I put one of those half pots of water on it where the hot air is expelled from around the shroud that fits around the stove. Fans pull air in from under the stove. The pot has to be positioned exactly in the center since anything sitting on top can block the flow of air. Also there is the issue of an electrical cord to run the fans. Since mine is on the first floor of a two story, I ran the cord down the ash drop and out the cleanout door in the basement to a ground fault outlet. In your installation it looks like it will be draped across the hearth which may or may not be a problem. Soapstone is a BIG plus. Two nice sized osage or hickory pieces will burn and heat 8 hours. I throw them in at 11 p.m. & at 7 the next a.m. they are just about consumed and the stove is still very hot. The stove IS efficient and with the fans going full blast, puts out a large amount of heat. Hope this helps.
  21. Ram 1500 with an axe...

    Ram 1500 with an axe... Minister of Fire

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    Just curious, how long does it take that half pot to create steam.....thanks
  22. 6mmbrer

    6mmbrer New Member

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    The shelf/grate that it sits on is a 1/2 inch or so off the cast iron so there's no direct contact with the hottest part of the stove. It doesn't steam, just evaporates.
  23. OldLumberKid

    OldLumberKid Feeling the Heat

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    It's a very workable philosophy.

    (Sometimes the seller's time available to sell is limited or has a cost of some sort associated with it, too, and the earlier they can make a sale, the less time they waste...and as they say... time is ... $)
  24. Eaglecraft

    Eaglecraft Member

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    Schlemoc:

    You can buy Clyde online and have it shipped to your residence, as I did. See: http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hsclyde.htm. You can also purchase a chimney liner online. You can complete the installation yourself as I did, or you can have Clyde installed by an independent pro sweep. In the case of the latter, I recommend that you find a certified sweep from http://www.csia.org/ or from http://www.ncsg.org/ You want the job done right, and a pro will achieve the certification.

    Installing the Clyde yourself has no effect on the unit's warrenty. I recommend that you install an insulated 6 inch SS liner and a "block-off" plate to keep from loosing heat to your masonry chimney. The insulation, which can be purchased as a kit from the supplier of the liner, can improve the draft performance of the insert.

    As far as Clyde is concerned, you will not be disappointed. Clyde is not the largest or the smallest insert that you can buy. Clyde heats our 2000 sq ft ranch very nicely. And we don't have to "push" Clyde to get the heat out of him. You will need to use the blower however; the power cord can be mounted either to the right or left of the unit. But the cord can be hidden nicely behind your set of fireplace tools.

    Good luck with your Clyde...
    OldLumberKid likes this.
  25. schlemoc

    schlemoc New Member

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    Thank you for the thoughts and input. I have spoke with many individuals who have the Clydesdale that are very pleased with it. Therefore, I do believe I am going to go that route. I spoke to the place that does the installations and sales. Anyone have any thoughts on this quote? I'm curious what the mark up / negotiation ability is on it. I was thinking offering him $4,700, so if he does end up having to go extra step it stays at an even $5,000. I also think this would be fair, but then again, I'm not too sure on profit margins. I would expect it to be fairly high.

    The cost of installation is slightly higher as he said they have to cut out the prior damper and some of the wall to open it up, as it is an old system. There is a potential $300 increase if he has to take apart the mantel since it the chimney makes a very tight angle. The chimney liner is a 316 Ti alloy with 7 ply seam and 10 corrugations according to the brochure. It says it has a trademarked "Quick cap / Quick top plate / Quick Tee" system. I do not believe I have the technical knowledge for such an application, nor do I want to risk incorrectly installing it. If this was a standard chimney requiring minimal demolition, I'm sure my more saavy friends could manage. Hopefully this provides a basis for others who are looking at this stove in the future too!

    $3,899 - Clydesdale insert in Brown enamel
    $780 - Full kit for chimney liner
    $100 - Insulation for around the damper/insert/etc
    $1,200 - Labor / Installation
    $4,979 - all tax out the door cash deal

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