Installing and using a catalytic stove

[fireguy715]

I recently purchased a nice used VC defiant encore 0028 to replace my old Gibralter stove. I have a couple of questions:

1, Should I retain the damper in my stove pipe and still use it the same way to restrict the draft,(I have 6" class A chimny)?

2, Should I run it in cat mode all the time,(once warmed up) or can I run it in non-cat mode and control the fire with the bimetal draft and stove pipe damper?

3, Is catalytic mode for slow sustained burn or can I make it rock and roll,(in catalytic mode) on those -30 minnesota nights that we are blessed with?

4. I'm going to go over the stove before I install it, what should I check?

Thanks

 

[KeithO]

The reason the damper is there is that if the cat was permanently in the flow, it would tend to plug when the fire is started and burning cold and dirty. If the cells get plugged, the flue gas can't get through, draft is reduced, fire becomes smokey and may finally go out. Basically, cold start is a bad time to pass the flue gas through the cat. Once the fire and cat is hot, it can stay in the circuit all the time. Automotive catalytic converters for gas vehicles run at temperatures above 700 degrees C most of the time in highway driving and sometimes close to 1000C.

The cat in stoves has a useful lifespan of 2-3 years with average use. It should not be too much trouble removing yours to have it checked out. It needs to work properly if you are going to get the right amount of heat and burn wood efficiently, so it is worth replacing if it is bad. A cord of wood is more than likely more expensive than a new cat.

 

[jpl1nh]

The cat mode is designed to be utilized anytime the flue gases are safely above 500 degrees. At those hotter temps it activates and burns off most of whatever residual is in the flue gas stream. Once activated, it will work with your stove burning hot or when your stove is damped down as long as there is a smoke stream to feed it. Once you get to the cola stage of the fire it may stop combusting. Each time you are starting up your stove or reloading your stove, you should bypass the cat until you have the stove up to temp of flue gas exhaust of 500 or more. The damper you have can remain, it would be useful only if your draft is so strong you aren't able to control it with the stove controls. Otherwise, I would rely on the stove controls and not relaly utilize the damper. Check to make sure you combustor is ash free, your gaskets all pass the dollar bill test, your stove pipes are clean, and that your air controls all work freely and smoothly. If your combustor is working properly, it will throw much more heat when it is activated. If is older and needs to be replaced, you will notice little heat difference when activated and a much smokier exhaust from your chimney. Happy burnin, a well utilized cat is a wonderful heat and pollution control tool.

 

[begreen]

Calling senor Elk to the lobby. Welcome fireguy. We have a resident expert here that should be checking in soon. In the meantime, do you have the manual for the stove? If not, download it at:
http://www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/files/2007/2000956_Encore_2550.pdf

 

[Todd]

I recently purchased a nice used VC defiant encore 0028 to replace my old Gibralter stove. I have a couple of questions:

1, Should I retain the damper in my stove pipe and still use it the same way to restrict the draft,(I have 6" class A chimny)?

2, Should I run it in cat mode all the time,(once warmed up) or can I run it in non-cat mode and control the fire with the bimetal draft and stove pipe damper?

3, Is catalytic mode for slow sustained burn or can I make it rock and roll,(in catalytic mode) on those -30 minnesota nights that we are blessed with?

4. I'm going to go over the stove before I install it, what should I check?

Thanks

1. I don't think you'll need it unless your chimney is very tall like over 25'. The older stoves needed dampers because they had poor efficiency and lots of heat went up the stack, not true of newer EPA stoves.

2. Run it in the non cat mode during start ups and reloads then engage the cat when proper internal temp (500) is reached. This will give you best efficiency and longer burns.

3. Cat stoves are made for slow long even burns. The cat feeds off the smoke and gets hotter with long slow burns. If the stove gets too much air the smoke goes through the cat without igniting thus wasting fuel. It takes some trial and error to find a sweet spot and a thermometer is your best friend.

4. Check for cracks or white colored metal, this could be from overfiring. Check the cat to see if it's plugged with ash, also ask if it has been replaced. They can last 3-5 years or more if properly operated, and cleaned after every cord of wood.

 

[elkimmeg]

(edit by web)
Instructions for cleaning and operating of Vermont Castings Defiant Encore 0028)
(that is so searches can find thread easier!)

Fireguy: the first thing you need to do is clean out that stove shop vac it out Then there are two phillips head screws on the back of the stove, holding the label and the cat combustor housing plate Remove the screws and there is a refractory material with a access panel. carefully remove it to clean and examine the cat combustor. t if the honey comb is cracked out and broken you need a new combustor

Cleaning the combustor the first operations and usual procedure it to use a vac machine i with the hose set to blow the combustor out then hose in Vac position to clean it.

More extreme cleaning may be needed in this case I run pipe cleaners threw the honey comb spacing. Finally there is one more drastic step that can be m employed.
using a 50 /50 solution of vinegar aND WATER Boil it for 10 minutes hen blow it to help dry it possibly pipe cleaners if needed

Don't just place it back in just yet I use a short piece of flexible hose and duct tape it to the end of the vac and vac out the combustor compartment.

IT makes no sense setting it back in a bed of fly ash to get clogged up again. IF you are concerned about the combustor's condition post a picture of it here

There are some gaskets that will need attention. The top griddle gasket last about 4 years and should be replaced at that time interval
The front loading door gaskets may need replacing I believe them to be 5/16" gaskets and real important the ash pan door gasket has to be in good condition and make a good seal
there is also adjustments to the latches that could tighten up the door seals

Operations: One should not need to use and external pipe damper. Don't use it you will screw up the burning of the stove clog up you cat combustor

Really there are only two controls to work Primary air on the right side of the stove is fully open when moved forward to the front to the back to close.
Being new to this stove operation, I highly recommend placing a magnetic thermometer on the center of the griddle top I use the front doors only to stir coals,
clean outs and starting the fire. The rest of the time I use the top loading. To load the fire one disengages the damper open it up add a bit of primary air Wait a second or two and first crack the top griddle then slowly open it If you rush to open it you can pull out smoke if you forget to open the damper you will pull out smoke

My instructions differ here that the good advice you already received. One I wait a bit longer to establish a good fire. I start by reducing the primary air to less the 1/2 then to 1/4

I watch the griddle top thermo to judge my cat engagement .real cold night I may take it up to 600 degrees There is also a second way to know when to engage the cat you want to engage the cat when all surface wood exhibits a charing The other reason I wait a bit longer it the thermostatically controlled secondary air try to keep the stove running at the settings and temp
when the damper/ cat bi pass is engaged. You still can add more primary air if you need more heat or reduce it if less is required many times I run the stove solely on
the secondary air feed meaning the primary is completely closed As you learn how to operate it it will become engage the cat wait 7 8 or 9 hours to re load it. or if around load it 3 splits at a time but more loading is being done Once the cat is engaged and firing properly you should see very little smoke exiting your chimney ther could be a time delay of 5 to 10 minutes as the fire makes adjustments but after 10 minutes and smoke id billowing out your cat is not working.

A couple of added tidbits usually the next hot fire start up cleanses the cat. One has to work at it to clog it back up again. Wet wood,burning junk, and colored paper will accelerates clogging that cat

 

[fireguy715]

Fireguy: the first thing you need to do is clean out that stove shop vac it out Then there are two phillips head screws on the back of the stove, holding the label and the cat combustor housing plate Remove the screws and there is a refractory material with a access panel. carefully remove it to clean and examine the cat combustor. t if the honey comb is cracked out and broken you need a new combustor

Cleaning the combustor the first operations and usual procedure it to use a vac machine i with the hose set to blow the combustor out then hose in Vac position to clean it.

More extreme cleaning may be needed in this case I run pipe cleaners threw the honey comb spacing. Finally there is one more drastic step that can be m employed.
using a 50 /50 solution of vinegar aND WATER Boil it for 10 minutes hen blow it to help dry it possibly pipe cleaners if needed

Don't just place it back in just yet I use a short piece of flexible hose and duct tape it to the end of the vac and vac out the combustor compartment.

IT makes no sense setting it back in a bed of fly ash to get clogged up again. IF you are concerned about the combustor's condition post a picture of it here

There are some gaskets that will need attention. The top griddle gasket last about 4 years and should be replaced at that time interval
The front loading door gaskets may need replacing I believe them to be 5/16" gaskets and real important the ash pan door gasket has to be in good condition and make a good seal
there is also adjustments to the latches that could tighten up the door seals

Operations: One should not need to use and external pipe damper. Don't use it you will screw up the burning of the stove clog up you cat combustor

Really there are only two controls to work Primary air on the right side of the stove is fully open when moved forward to the front to the back to close.
Being new to this stove operation, I highly recommend placing a magnetic thermometer on the center of the griddle top I use the front doors only to stir coals,
clean outs and starting the fire. The rest of the time I use the top loading. To load the fire one disengages the damper open it up add a bit of primary air Wait a second or two and first crack the top griddle then slowly open it If you rush to open it you can pull out smoke if you forget to open the damper you will pull out smoke

My instructions differ here that the good advice you already received. One I wait a bit longer to establish a good fire. I start by reducing the primary air to less the 1/2 then to 1/4

I watch the griddle top thermo to judge my cat engagement .real cold night I may take it up to 600 degrees There is also a second way to know when to engage the cat you want to engage the cat when all surface wood exhibits a charing The other reason I wait a bit longer it the thermostatically controlled secondary air try to keep the stove running at the settings and temp
when the damper/ cat bi pass is engaged. You still can add more primary air if you need more heat or reduce it if less is required many times I run the stove solely on
the secondary air feed meaning the primary is completely closed As you learn how to operate it it will become engage the cat wait 7 8 or 9 hours to re load it. or if around load it 3 splits at a time but more loading is being done Once the cat is engaged and firing properly you should see very little smoke exiting your chimney ther could be a time delay of 5 to 10 minutes as the fire makes adjustments but after 10 minutes and smoke id billowing out your cat is not working.

A couple of added tidbits usually the next hot fire start up cleanses the cat. One has to work at it to clog it back up again. Wet wood,burning junk, and colored paper will accelerates clogging that cat

Wow, thanks for the great info! What is the primary and secondary air control? I only notice one air control lever on the right hand side as I'm facing it.

 

[elkimmeg]

the primary controls are on the right side the only one you can control the secondary air control controls air into the Cat combustion chamber and to the stove.. It is attached to a bimetalic spring the expands and contracts as heat is needed. it automatically controls all secondary air functions. IT is this system ,that once the cat is engaged, it controls long productive heating

 

[Gooserider]

I would also say that it is important to remember that the refractory tower that the cat sits in is DELICATE and FRAGILE - it can be damaged easily if abused at all, and is an expensive part to replace. Treat it very gently while doing the things that Elk mentioned...

Gooserider