Jotul 600CB Lazy fire, asking for advice, liner?

[formula_pilot]

I did a couple of small break in fires with our new Jotul 600CB. Seeing the fire was great, and I understand why they say to do the break in with the windows open, lots of smoking paint! The problem is, I had to keep the side door cracked in order to keep a clean hot fire- with the air fully open and the side door shut, it got real smoky in the firebox and the fire was lazy. It was 52-55 degrees outside both times, not ideal, but should the door have to be kept open with good wood? I was using small pine splits that read 16-18% on my cheapo moisture meter, so I think the wood was pretty dry. This stove is replacing an old VC Defiant 1975. I never really ran the Defiant when it was that warm outside, so I do not have a great comparison.

From what I have read here, installing a liner might help improve the draft. The existing chimney is masonry clay lined 6.25”x10.5” ID and 16 feet tall from the thimble. Stove is setup rear exit, strait back to an 8” round thimble. The thimble is deep – 20” of horizontal.

It looks like a 6” flex liner will not fit in a 6.25” wide flue, especially since there is some sloppy mortar in some areas making some tight spots. A rigid liner looks like it is the only one that might fit, as there is no insulation making the ID bigger.

1) Can I put a rigid 6” liner in a 6.25”-6.5” x 10.5” clay flue and stuff fiberglass insulation down in the voids caused by the rectangle shape of the flue? I do not see any way I could use a balloon and pour insulation.

2) The stove is in the living room, but the cleanout is in the basement, can I put 12’ of pipe on the bottom of the “T” so that the cleanout cap is downstairs and accessible from the cleanout door?

3) How do you connect the stove pipe to the “T”? It looks like the stove side of the “thimble” part of the T’s are not crimped in any of the photos I have seen online. I thought there should always be a crimp on the stove end?

4) Why do online dealers say to use a flex liner if the chimney is more than 12’ ? Am I asking for trouble to do 16’ + 12’?

Thanks for your help
Bill

 

[begreen]

Well, the good news is that it will draft a lot better at 30°F than at 50. If the flue was an 8x8 it might work better, but with a rear-exit, then 90 degree turn up a 16' pipe that is over 2x the stove pipe diameter, you are seeing weak suction. One solution might be to look at Simpson oval Duraliner. It has an OD of 4.75" x 7.75" and is factory insulated.

 

[stoveguy13]

you may just want to wait and try it after it gets cold out could save you some money

 

[begreen]

Considering this was a problem with the Defiant and now with the Jotul, I'd go ahead and line it. You will gain performance and safety and can add this to the installation costs for the Jotul to the tax credit.

 

[formula_pilot]

Considering this was a problem with the Defiant and now with the Jotul, I'd go ahead and line it. You will gain performance and safety and can add this to the installation costs for the Jotul to the tax credit.

I am coming to that conclusion. The problem is to figure out how to do it - it will be a challenging install. The ovalized liners may be an answer, but I am not sure about the T's used in the ovalized setups.

 

[begreen]

Simpson has a whole system designed for this. There is a 6" round snout that attaches to the oval liner after it's in place. Download their catalog and installation instructions for good illustrations and details. Or give them a call.

 

[allhandsworking]

Keep door cracked open till wood is going good. When you have it up in temp you will draft better!

 

[fraxinus]

I had the same difficulty last year with my new Firelight. Like yours, it was vented into a 8x12" (nominal) masonry chimney that had originally been built for a Defiant. Once the temperature differential between indoors and outdoors became greater than it is in early fall, I had no problems with the draft. There is definitely a learning curve in going from the powerful draft of a Defiant to the much more restricted air supply of the Jotul. Very dry wood is essential and you need to coax the fire along at the start by using a lot of kindling, then gradually adding small pieces of wood. The Firelight owner's manual is actually pretty clear on this, but since they list the wood size in cms, it's hard for us (at least me) non-metric Americans to accurately visualize the split size they're talking about. Once winter was really underway I rarely had to crack the side loading door to get the fire going, even from a cold start. Perhaps a 6" liner will help, but I'm not so sure it's as important as the temperature differential.

 

[formula_pilot]

I called several distributors on oval flex liners, rigid liners etc, but never got to talk to Simpson directly (voicemails). The problem I have is that my 6 ¼ x 10 ½ flue is oriented so that the clay pipe through the wall enters the flue on the narrow, 6 ¼ side. All of the oval “T”s are oriented so that the take-offs enter the wide side of the oval. The oval "T"s will not work

I am going to attempt a rigid 6” and do a DIY ovalizing on it, I do not see many other choices. It looks like the setup will require the ""T" to have no insulation, as I will be lucky to get it down there at all.