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Longer Leads For Cartridge Heater?

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by The Other One, Jan 28, 2012.

  1. The Other One

    The Other One Member

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    Anyone know where I can find longer leads and connectors for a cartridge heater that I am using to replace the ignitor for my St. Croix Hastings pellet stove? I purchased this from Grainger: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/TEMPCO-Cartridge-Heater-4NJF9
    Its leads are only 10" and I need like 2 and 1/2 feet. The wire will run through an extremely hot part of my stove. I can slide back the insulated tubing closest to the cartridge and high temp connectors (the kind you pinch with pliers to join wires) connect the 2" of wire coming from the cartridge to the leads which appear to be nickel wire with fibergalss insulation.

    I sent back a "super ignitor" for warranty, but that is going to be weeks if it is even honored. (I wish I cut those leads off before I sent it).

    Also, does anyone have a way to fit a collar around the end of it like on the stock St. Croix ignitor. I am going to try to file down the edges of a 3/8" steel bolt so it fits into the compartment that the ignitor goes into. This will work, but I was wondering if anyone had a better idea?

    Thanks.

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  2. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Why not contact Tempco directly and see if they have an ignitor with longer leads and the collar built-in? When you open the link below, their phone numbers & email addy is at the very bottom of the page.

    If you have the original part # from your ignitor, maybe they can cross-reference it, or maybe they made it for St. Croix in the first place (like the one in my 10-cpm Englander).

    www.tempco.com/Cartridge_Heaters/Cartridge_hub.htm
  3. The Other One

    The Other One Member

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    Thanks imacman. I have already done that and I am waiting for a reply. I also have emails out to people on this forum who have suggested the use of cartridge heaters. I have also heard the suggestion of cutting the leads off my old igniter which I can't do because I sent it back for a possible warranty coverage and I can't locate the original one.

    I would love any other possible suggestions. I went everywhere possible locally yesterday looking for this wire. Grainger had it and the connectors in huge rolls that I don't need. No one else had anything. The guys at grainger were a little concerned about it, because they stated that usually the leads go directly into the cartridge. That is not the case with this model.

    If anyone has a source of cartridge heaters with longer leads, I would appreciate that information as well. I want to get one in and working and then buy a few more as backups because anything that I have a backup for never breaks.

    I have rewired my stove to pilot instead of shutting down when heat is not demanded by the thermostat, so I am good without the ignitor. (I have the old St. Croix Hastings model that does not have the switch to do this). I want the ignitor back, because this won't be as convenient when it is not the dead of winter. I am using gel and a match to start it when I need to shut it down to do a serious cleaning.
  4. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    You can usually find various connectors at your local Radio Shack, take a picture of what it has to mate with and ask the clerk for help.

    You can also splice additional wire to the cartridge heater to increase its length, once again Radio Shack might be of help.

    Remember to mention the temperatures it may be exposed to.
  5. The Other One

    The Other One Member

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  6. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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  7. The Other One

    The Other One Member

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  8. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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  9. silverfox103

    silverfox103 Feeling the Heat

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    What you need is heat resistant wire, that you might be able to pick up at a hardware store. It is used for wiring in stoves or some light fixtures. It used to be made of varnished cambric or maybe even asbestos insulation, but I'm sure they don't use that anymore. Like has been said it is for high temp areas.

    Tom C.
  10. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    TGGT is the wire type (actually the insulation) and you can get it in various temperature ratings that go up quite high, however inside the shell and outside of the firebox and not against the exhaust it doesn't have be at the top end.
  11. The Other One

    The Other One Member

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    Excellent, I see the tggt on ebay cheap for 10 foot sections. Now what about the connectors? Do I need special high temp ones?
  12. The Other One

    The Other One Member

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    OK. I think I am set. I am going to keep the current leads and attach these leads:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/280669306371?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
    with these connectors:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/270736926787?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
    and then attach connectors to connect to leads that go to the circuit board.

    I can't believe I couldn't get this information from all of the stores I went to yesterday. One person at Lowes suggested I go to their appliance department, but I knew they wouldn't know what it was or have it. If I didn't find what I needed this weekend, I was going to contact an appliance repair man on Monday.

    Thank you everyone. I am sure this thread will help others in the future.
  13. The Other One

    The Other One Member

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    Ha, ha, ha. I know how to cut wire, I just don' need a 100 ft roll.
  14. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

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    One always needs spare parts the wire cutter may subscribe to the cut twice measure never school of doing things ;-) .

    Have fun.
  15. heat seeker

    heat seeker Minister of Fire

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    "Dang, I cut it three times, and it's still too short!"
  16. The Other One

    The Other One Member

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    Works like a charm. I highly recommend going the cheap cartridge heater route. Tempco replied to me stating:
    The selected unit is not generally used in Pellet Stoves although it is the approx. size and wattage of a common design. We use different materials and terminations for them. That said your best bet for low volume wire & connector purchases is McMaster Carr.
    I think this was a CYA situation. I installed it without the ring around it for now and have done this with replacement igniters in the past. I have not had a problem, but I am not guaranteeing the safety. (The heater only comes on for a few minutes when the pellets need to be lit). I am working on making a ring from a 3/8" bolt. I am rounding off the edges and filing it down with my angle grinder. It takes a while, because I have a battery operated angle grinder that eats the batteries in 5 minutes and then takes quite a while to recharge. (Ryobi should not have offerered this tool. I knew that it would eat batteries, but its convenient to take out to my lawn tractor for blade sharpening).

    Here is information on all the parts that I used:
    [​IMG]
    TEMPCO Cartridge Heater, 120V, 250 W, 61 W/Sq.-In
    Grainger Item # 4NJF9 Mfr. Model # HDC00279
    http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/TEMPCO-Cartridge-Heater-4NJF9

    [​IMG]
    #18 High Temperature TGGT APPLIANCE WIRE Price per 10ft
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/280669306371?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

    [​IMG]
    SMALL CERAMIC WIRE NUTS HIGH TEMPERATURE PACK OF 10
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/270736926787?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

    [​IMG]
    IDEAL 12-Pack 22-18 AWG Disconnect Pairs
    http://www.lowes.com/pd_136010-1270...L;=/pl__0__s?Ntt=ideal disconnect&facetInfo;= (You can find them anywhere).

    The ebay items probably won't be at those links for long. If the images don't show, they aren't. But, you will probably be able to find them by the item name that I listed.

    Start by shutting the power off and unplugging the stove. I unscrewed the "panel" that hides the cartridge heater and took off the top and right panels of the stove. I removed the old cartridge heater, you can follow the wires to their disconnect terminals on the right side of the stove. They travel through a tube next to the fire box. (You may have to remove a rubber gasket to get the disconnect terminals through). It does not matter which wire reconnects to which, so don't worry about it. I placed the new cartridge heater where it goes. I then cut the leads so that they just reached the opening to the tube that is to the right of the firebox and leads towards the back of the stove. I cut the TGGT wire into two 18" lengths and stripped the ends. I ran the wire through the "tube". I connected the cartridge heater leads to the TGGT wire with the ceramic caps. I connected male disconnect terminals to the other sides of the TGGT wire. (I found that I actually had to cut one of the female disconnect terminals from the wires that lead to the control board and attach a new one, because the new male terminal didn't fit). You have to crimp the terminals in place with the crimping part of your wire cutter or crush it really well with some needle nose pliers. Now before I closed everything up, I made sure that the cartridge heater was lying where it was supposed to inside the stove and cleared all the parts (grate weldment) that I remove to clean the grate area so that the heater would not be damaged when I do this. After I closed up the stove, I checked the clearance again and everytime I clean the stove, I do this. Then I ran the stove. It lit right up and worked on several other tries.

    I know I went into a lot of detail, but if you haven't done much electrical work, all the details may help you if you are unsure of yourself. Once you get into it, you will see how easy it is.

    Here is the link to the St. Croix Service & Trouble Shooting Guide:
    http://www.eventempinc.com/stcroix/downloads/dig1/Digital_Control_Board_Service_Manual-Pellet.pdf
    Thats the manual you actually need that did not come with your St. Croix stove. It can't be posted enough.
  17. heat seeker

    heat seeker Minister of Fire

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    Nice work! Thanks for posting, I'm saving the info for the inevitable time I'll need it.
  18. PerfectaDude

    PerfectaDude New Member

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    I believe this is the wire you seek, and sold by the foot

    http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/802

    Take your pick, they have 482 degree, 842 degree, or if you really want to go nuts 1832 degree with stainless braid.

    I would say 482 degree should be sufficient, if it gets any hotter than that outside the combustion chamber you might have a problem.

    To err on the side of caution you could always go with 842 degree but it is really overkill, have you tried measuring the temperature in the
    area where you are running the wires?
  19. The Other One

    The Other One Member

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    Hey, I just found out that the warranty was honored on my Super Ignitor too. Now I have a backup. Though I can now replace it for about $20 bucks next time. This one that I put in is still working great. The stove lights right up.
  20. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Cool!
  21. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Hello

    I just replaced a St. Croix Hastings ignitor. It is 4 inches long and 300 watts and 3/8 inch in diameter. The hastings has a special collar on it that steps down. Some of the collars are welded on and cannot be re-used. If the collar is welded, then the Grainger ignitor collar made by Dayton Electric MFG Co. part # 1L634A, then the step down can be done with 2 washers which can be purchased at Advanced Auto parts.They are Brake Hose washers part # 66223. If you get the heater cartridge at Grainger then you need to extend the wires by splicing on the wires from the old igniter. The only problem is the the quick disconnect male clips must be crimped on after the igniter wires are pulled thru the channel to the back of the stove. The easiest way to do that is to stick a coat hanger thru to the front and then pull the wires back thru the hole in the back of the stove with the rubber grommet. I tried to remove the grommet but it was old and a little brittle so pulling the wires back thru with the coat hanger works best. That was just my experience.

    See pic of orig igniter below and new one I built up.

    Attached Files:

  22. glenc0322

    glenc0322 Minister of Fire

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    you should use high temp wire and get high temp barrel crimps instead of wire nuts you can also pick up the stake ons from radioshack to connect to the board

    these are good up to 220 degrees http://www.mcmaster.com/#butt-splices/=lld8z5
  23. Don2222

    Don2222 Minister of Fire

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    Thanks, I took the old ignitor wires to extend the new ignitor wires so they were all hi temp wires. That is good to know about the butt connectors, I use ones similar to those.
    glenc0322 and woodsman23 like this.
  24. woodsman23

    woodsman23 Minister of Fire

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    i did the same thing, sodered wire and heat wrapped and reinstalled.
  25. Harvey Schneider

    Harvey Schneider Minister of Fire

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    Solder is usually not a good idea on connections close to the heater. The solder melts at too low a temperature. Crimp splices are a better choice.

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